Is it worth it for me to go back for EECS?

College Majors Engineering Majors
1

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I'm 26 and currently working as a Senior Unix Administrator for a large company in the Denver Metro Area. For the past year I have been really bored in IT and feel that I have much more potential than racking servers, writing simple shell scripts, or installing crap like Websphere or JBoss. Sure I make 85k a year, but I'm bored in my job and with IT operations in general.</p>

<p>My plan in 6 months is to quit my job and enroll at the University of Colorado in a double major of EECS. The goal is to get the double major in EE and CS so that I will have the abilility to work in either hardware or software (or possibly a job using both skill sets) depending on the cyclical nature of each sub field. I want to be able to get a job if either market has a downturn.</p>

<p>I know most of you are going to say "Why quit a good job and waste your money in college?" -- Well, there are several reasons:</p>

<p>1) I find myself constantly trying to delve into low level C programming, digital hardware signal concepts, and device driver design. I've read several electrical circuits books for fun because I'm so fascinated with how they work. I can totally see myself loving life working on DSP, RF, and embedded systems projects. I want to learn how to derive the Fourier Transform integrals I have read on various scientific websites such as Wolfram,etc. I have always had massive desire to learn the low level (EE/CE) and make a career out of it, though it's taken me until now to finally get the cash, mindset, and time to finally do it. I could ramble on and on... the gist is that I'm a very curious person and have a fascination with the low level and complex. HAving the opportunity in life to understand how circuits, RF, and DSP applications work would just be grand for me -- even if it means less money and possibly much more stressful job environment.</p>

<p>2) The job I currently have isn't that stable anyway and I was almost laid off back in Oct 2005 (500 person layoff). The rumor around the campfire is that there might be another layoff soon anyway and what a perfect opportunity to go back and get my degree with a reason to get my EFC adjusted down (i.e. loss of income/job).</p>

<p>3) I'm 26 years old now and I don't currently have any major responsibilities such as a house, debt, or kids. If I want a degree I need to finish it now while I have the time, money (I have about 40k USD saved up currently with about 4k being saved a month until I get in June). If I wait any longer I'll probably just say 'screw it' and get a few certs and settle for IT... though that doesn't sound very fun.</p>

<p>4) I have a GED and about 51 credits finished at a local community college here with a 3.94 GPA average (calc1-3, physics 1, chem 1 & 2) and feel that I have what it takes to do a full EECS degree up a U of C-Boulder. The admissions office at U of C said that I shouldn't have any problems with getting admitted to the ECE department because my grades at the community college were very good (3.94 cumulative GPA) -- I was also in Phi Theta Kappa</p>

<p>5) If I don't get laid off this year from my job, it's only a matter of time before I do get laid off, and without a BS degree my chances at landing another job are going to be hard again. It's really hard to get your resume noticed in most HR departments with just a GED and 51 college credits finished even though I know I can run circles around most unix administrators and even some programmers (not trying to brag here but I have written my own Apache Web Server modules in C and Perl and no one else in the group here where I work has even attempted to try to learn). I got the job I have currently by knowing someone on the inside, but I won't have that option next time.</p>

<p>6) Over the next 20 years more and more people are going to be earning their credentials and so the global market place will just get more competitive -- Having at least a BS degree in engineering will open up a lot of doors.</p>

<p>7) With a degree you have more jobs open to you that you wouldn't otherwise have. For example, I would love to work for major engineering companies like Lockheed, Northrup Gruman, Intel, AMD, Nivdia, ATI doing hardware design, embedded development, and/or programming. Even working for a no-name company doing the aforementioned jobs would be awesome. I have a fascination with the low level and most people require a degree to even be hired in the low level area these days -- IT is too damn easy for me and I'm bored.</p>

<p>8) I want to take a stab at doing undergraduate research when I finally get up to CU Boulder and then possibly in the future try to get into a good EE grad program at a good top 10 school (yes very ambitious, but a dream of mine). If not I'll just complete a masters at CU and/or go into industry.</p>

<p>9) I would be the first in my entire family (including relatives) to ever get a bachelors degree. Hell, I'm one of only two people that has even walked into a community college. Based on my family history I was destined to be a Walmart worker given the conditions I was raised in, but I'll be damed if I let that happen!!!</p>

<p>Please give me your comments and opinions. This is my first posting as I really just read a lot of comments here and soaked up the knowledge in this forum. I probably spent a combined 300 hours reading all the knowledge in this forum about EE and engineering in general. </p>

<p>Plan:</p>

<p>1) Quit job in 6 months
2) Move up to Boulder before FAll 07'
3) Complete EE/CS Double Major
4a) Depending on funds/time/grades take a stab at getting into top graduate school
4b) Otherwise, get job in industry and have employer pay for MAsters at EE at a normal state school. :)</p>

<p>All comments, opinions, and flames welcome. If you think I'm totally an idiot for even attempting this, I want to here from you as well. :)</p>

<p>Thanks,</p>

<p>Dew2321</p>

2

<p>Sakky, I have enjoyed your replies to posts in the past... What are your thoughts on my plan above?</p>

<p>(My message above is a bit long winded due to hitting the submit button accidently before I was finished editing. I wasn't able to edit the message after it posted live to the site :/ )</p>

3

<p>if you can financially afford to be without a job for 2 years, then i say go for it...if not, start looking now for a way to financially support yourself (what you spend now, plus tuition/fees/books)...i also say go for plan 4b, as it will put less financial strain on you, and most big companies will pay...plus, you may not want to continue school post-BS, so its a safe route</p>

4

<p>I have saved 40k so far and plan to keep working until I have saved 60k or so. </p>

<p>With Savings, Loans, and Grants combined, I shouldn't have any problem completing the dual degree (EECS) in 2-3 years without working. </p>

<p>Many people have said dual majoring is a waste of time and money, but I disagree when it comes to EE and CS. Both degrees complement each other great because I will have been exposed to both hardware and software knowledge. </p>

<p>Later on I might get a graduate degree in either EE or CS depending on what job I get after graduating.</p>

<p>I'm excited! :)</p>

5

<p>Another possibility is to earn the rest of my undergrad at night and have my current employer pay for it. The problem with this route is that it will take me 5-6 years to complete. My job requires me to be available 24x7 for production outages so I just don't think it can work.</p>

<p>Not to mention, the company I work for is very volatile and feel that I could be laid off soon anyway. </p>

<p>The opportunity cost of doing this so late in the game is that I will lose 85k/year for a total of 3 years. Yes this sucks, but in the long term I think the degree will pay off in that I will have more security to get admins jobs, programming jobs, and even hardware jobs in the chance I can get laid off. Doors will open at businesses that will only hire someone with a BS degree.</p>

<p>( Yes I'm ranting here, but I'm trying to convince myself the above is true )</p>

6

<p>I think that having the BS degree will definitely be worth it</p>

7

<p>You'd have a degree AND years of experience.</p>

8

<p>You've laid out your case very well. I don't think you need any of us to convince you to go for it. More education is rarely a bad thing.</p>

9

<p>Sounds good, and even though I know very little about the job market etc, I imagine a school like MIT, CalTech or anyone of the fancy engineering schools (even some that are free, like olin, and that place in NYC I forget the name) would love to scoop you up. You're resourceful, experienced, and a serious student not to mention first in family to get a degree (a big plus for any applicant.) you're essentially a self-made man. Aim for a really good engineering school. </p>

<p>Worry about the tuition when you get accepted there because if you can't pay for it most of the good schools will pay for whatever you can't pay for. You might want to meet with a financial advisor that doesn't work for the school and deals with college students so as to maximaze the amount of financial aid you get.</p>

<p>Good luck with everything.</p>

10

<p>Aim higher - you have a good chance getting into schools better than U of C Boulder such as MIT, Stanford, Georgia Tech etc like the poster above mentioned.</p>

<p>Sounds like your interests in low level design is more EE oriented than CS, because nowadays CS is all about abstraction and your interests in hardware design and embedded systems are mostly EE topics.</p>

11

<p>your work right now is very related to EE & CS quitting now COULD help in the long run. However, you can always consider another job that pay less but guarantee a grad degree for u at night. That, to me is a better choice. To completely quit a job and study as an undergrad for another 4 years is not easy. A grad degree at night (like masters in EE) would be more suitable, you can also make $$$ so you don't feel useless :D Going from 85k to 0 is a shock!</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
I imagine a school like MIT, CalTech or anyone of the fancy engineering schools

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
you have a good chance getting into schools better than U of C Boulder such as MIT, Stanford

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</p>

<p>Actually, I would have to say that I rather doubt that the OP would be competitive for places like MIT or Stanford. That's not a knock against the OP, but rather a simple observation that, unlike most public schools, MIT and Stanford take very few transfer students, and so even top-notch transfer applicants often times get denied. </p>

<p>Hey, if you can get in to schools like that as a transfer, good for you. But I'm just saying that you shouldn't hold your breath. </p>

<p>
[quote]
1) Quit job in 6 months
2) Move up to Boulder before FAll 07'
3) Complete EE/CS Double Major
4a) Depending on funds/time/grades take a stab at getting into top graduate school
4b) Otherwise, get job in industry and have employer pay for MAsters at EE at a normal state school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Personally, if it was up to me, I would probably keep stockpiling money until you get laid off, and then get the degree. While I don't know what your employer situation is, you might be able to get some sort of layoff package. I know that when Cisco laid off 8500 people in 2001, they offered 6 months of severance, which was just ridiculous - as a lot of people at Cisco WANTED to get laid off in order to get that severance package. But even if you don't get a package, the fact that you worked until you got laid off means that you now have nothing left to lose. </p>

<p>And then there is a chance that you won't get laid off. If that's the case, then you can perhaps pick up a degree at night on the company's dime, like you mentioned. Or, if that doesn't fly, you can attempt to make a lateral transition to some other company that will pay for your degree. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Many people have said dual majoring is a waste of time and money, but I disagree when it comes to EE and CS. Both degrees complement each other great because I will have been exposed to both hardware and software knowledge.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, I think I am one of those 'many people', and I will tell you the same thing that I have said to countless others regarding double-majoring. The truth is, sadly, nobody really cares if you have a double major. Frankly, you don't really get much of a leg up in the job market. All people care about is whether you have a degree. Doubling doesn't really open up many additional opportunities, and certainly not enough to justify the extra time spend in doing it. I wish it did, but it sadly does not. </p>

<p>To make a digression, the truth is, most jobs, even engineering jobs, are really not that hard in the sense that you could probably learn most of what you need to know just by reading the textbook on your own time. Only in rare cases do you actually have to take a class in something in order to learn that thing. In fact, I would argue that classes are actually a rather inefficient way of learning anything, as the fact is, unless the teacher has top-notch communications skills (which most don't), listening to somebody lecture about a topic is usually not as educational as just sitting down and reading the book yourself. Only in rare cases have I ever walked out of a lecture thinking that I actually learned more than I would have if I had just read the book for that period of time. </p>

<p>{So one might ask if that is the case, why even have classes at all? Why doesn't everybody just go to the library and read books? The answer is that classes provide an assurance that somebody really did learn the material. Anybody can just say that they read a bunch of books, even if they didn't do anything at all. The value of classes is that they actually provide an assurance that the act of passing a class serves to verify that you really did learn the material.}</p>

<p>But the point is, you should pursue a double only because you actually like the 2 subjects. You shouldn't expect to get rewarded for it in the marketplace, because chances are, you won't be.</p>

13

<p>Thanks for your replies everyone...</p>

<p>Sakky, there are several reasons why this might be hard:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>It will be difficult for me to attend even 2 or more classes at night due to my hectic work schedule. It's not uncommon for me to work 55-60 hours a week and/or have to work late in the night for service upgrade outages. My job also requires that I have to be on call 24/7 in the event of a production emergency -- if I'm in the middle of an exam and such a event happens, I HAVE to respond and probably take an F on that exam. My job isn't too technical, but due to the volume of work I tend to get home exhausted.</p></li>
<li><p>Completing a single degree part time on my employers dime will take me at least 4-5 YEARS and I don't know if I have the commitment to do that. It's one thing to go to school fulltime without working (doable in my opinion), but it's another thing to WORK 55-60 hours a week and then spend every night away in a classroom trying to learn. I don't know if I could handle spending 5 years working (school+job) which would total to be a combined 80-85 hours a week plus I'd be required to study on weekends! I think I would burn out eventually or I would just lose interest due to the degree taking SO LONG to finish. Lastly, many EE classes are only offered ONCE A YEAR, and so it will GREATLY impact the time it take to finish (almost double).</p></li>
<li><p>I won't get to study at a top 50 institution! I work in South Denver and the only University available to me is University of Colorado at Denver. LAst time I checked, U of C at Denver wasn't even ranked. If I'm going to spend the time and money I'd rather go all out and learn from professors at CU Boulder which has the highest ranked EE/CompE program in the state (afaik). Boulder is ranked 34th for engineering in General and has some pretty high admission requirements.</p></li>
<li><p>I'm 26 years old now and this is my last ditch effort to move up to a college town and experience college life. If I wait even a few more years I don't think I will have the desire to make such a drastic change because I will feel too old and will probably just settle for IT :/ </p></li>
<li><p>CU Boulder has a combined bachelors/masters ECE program (basically a bachelors in CompE with a Masters in EE) in only 5 years. Since I can transfer in with 30 credits, I could probably knock it out with 4 years of work. A similar program exists at UC Denver, but it's not available to part time students I don't believe. In the next 40 years I believe a Masters degree is going to be very important in staying competitive, so I need to get it now while I'm willing to do it and don't have a family. With the combined BS/MS program, the MS portion is only an additional 24 credit hours.</p></li>
<li><p>I will have the cash in 6 months to attend college full time without working. I could take 20 credit hours and even goto school in the summer to shorten the time required to graduate with a masters. No I won't graduate from MIT or Stanford, but I'll have a Masters from UofC-Boulder in electrical engineering which is pretty damn good in my opinion. How many people are even walking around with a masters in any engineering discipline?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>As you can see I'm torn. On one hand, I have this job paying 85k, but on the other hand, I really really want to get my education from a good school and experience college life before I'm in my 30s. To me it sounds better to get rid of the job and focus on school fulltime and try to have a life as well. Working my job and doing 2 classes a semester means I won't have a life at all -- I barely have a life now with my crazy job.</p>

<p>So far the best plan I can think of is to stock pile money for the next 6 months and then tell HR to lay me off in June/July. Rumor around the camp fire is that there is going to be another layoff in June anyway and I'm a bit overpaid for what I do......</p>

14

<p>****, man, stockpile money and invest that $40K you have already in a high-interest yield account.</p>

15

<p>Yup, already there. It's in a 5.50% interest account.</p>

<p>Are you saying I shouldn't go back to school with the money?</p>

16

<p>I wonder if I'm already too old to even do this. Most people going into EECS grad at the age of 21 or 22... </p>

<p>If I did the combined Masters program I'd be graduating at 31 -- Is that too old? Will I be a dinosaur at that point? </p>

<p>I'm working at a IT company now and I'm the youngest one here that is a Senior Unix Admin. The average age of a programmer here is about 35-40.</p>

17

<p>I read your post just now and am very impressed. First of all, let me applaud you for your trying to go back to school full-time and learn more stuffs and have your BS degree for a better job/life. However, if I may play a devil?s advocate here, I would recommend you not to go back to school full-time. Rather, going to school part time (perhaps evening class/weekends) while keeping your current job is probably best option, I think. After finishing your BS degree on a part time basis, you can switch jobs that you like or even further your education by going to graduate school. With your work experience under your belt and a BS degree firmly in your hand, a whole lotta new wonderful opportunity will be waiting for you.</p>

<p>I like how determined and resourceful you are- Best of Luck to you!!!</p>

18

<p>Dew, I think you have a great reason to go back to school. CU Boulder is a wonderful school, don't listen to the ranking mongers.</p>

<p>I'm personally against working and going to school. Engineering takes a lot of time and commitment. I spent 5 yrs working 25 hrs/week and studying ECE, and it was very rough. But I had to feed myself and put a roof over my head, so I had no choice. In grad school I didn't have to work (other than TA duties), and it was MUCH better. </p>

<p>Calculate a detailed budget, and then add 20% on top of that. If you have that much money, then I would recommend going to school full time.</p>

19

<p>Morfinx,</p>

<p>The goal as I said above is to do a combined BS/MS degree up at boulder which will likely take me 3-4 years... I will be 29 years old when I graduate!!! wow.</p>

<p>Will I be too old for the EE field at the age of 29? I certainly hope not, but I've seen people here post stuff like "after 35 you're considered a dinosaur". </p>

<p>Dinosaur or not, I'm still excited about it...</p>

20

<p>don't worry about your age, a lot of people work for a few years after they get their BS degree and go back to school for a master's. you will definitely be much more competitive on the job market with an MSEE from Boulder than without a BS degree.</p>