Is It Worth It? Indiana University Bloomington

Parents Forum
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<p>What's immature about liking a school's overall academic quality, a top 10 business program, one of the nicest campuses in the world, a friendly and happy student body, an amazing social life, Big 10 sports, great college town, etc.</p>

<p>I think IU is an amazing place, and if my estimates turned out to be correct...IU is definitely worth the extra $500/month over SDSU. I would just have to visit UPortland to make sure I'm not passing up something amazing.</p>

<p>"No school is perfect." </p>

<p>2 words prove that statement wrong...Indiana University!</p>

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<p>Socal,</p>

<p>Were you a direct admit to Kelley? It's something to consider if it is not a done deal. While an internal transfer in to Kelley takes "only" a 3.0 --not too hard to get if you focus on your books-- you do need to be focused on your books. The girl my son used to go with had planned to transfer in to Kelly but her first semester grades so far don't promise to be pretty and she has already dropped one class. The 3.0 requirement inches up every year, too.</p>

<p>As far as the financials go, check to see what on-campus and off campus jobs pay. After the first semester you could probably work a number of hours. Would it be worth it to you?</p>

<p>And check with the business office to see what kind of summer internships students are able to get after sophomore and junior years, and what they pay and what you need gradewise to get those jobs with the great paychecks.</p>

<p>check online to see what it would cost you to fly to and from Indianapolis.</p>

<p>Then sit down and think things through carefully.</p>

<p>A lot of your reasons for wanting to go there are very good but a lot of your financial future is at stake.</p>

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<p>It might be perfect for you, your gut might be telling you to go, you might wonder what you missed if you did not go there. It sounds like you are going to go there, and you would like people to tell you to go for your dream, and go to IU!</p>

<p>If you were my child I would advise you that there is no way that I think you should put yourself into that amount of debt. There are many schools that you can make work for you. Just make the best of any situation. Find great professors, interesting people, interesting classes, make wonderful friends, find clubs, internships, jobs. I believe that there are many good fits for everyone. Sure, some might be better than others. The finances do not make this a good fit for you in my opinion. Wait and see what the financial package is, but plan to go somewhere where you don't have so much debt. This is the advice that I would give my own children, and my son did turn down his first choice school, bc of the lousy financial package (and he did get a 10k merit scholarship, but at a private school that is often not nearly enough money).</p>

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<p>Thanks for the advice northeastmom.</p>

<p>The thing is I do truly love each and every school on my list (minus UPortland, I just applied there because they emailed me a free application). At some point in time I was dying to get in to Pepperdine, LMU, FSU, etc. I have no problem going to any of my schools, I just like IU (and UMiami) a whole lot better. </p>

<p>I guess I'll just have to wait and see....thanks for all of the help.</p>

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<p>socal, as you may recall, I'm an IU fan, but I think you really need to consider this debt load. From someone that's been there, it's NOT fun starting off life with a huge debt. You get through it, but it's always there. There are somethings you might want to do that will need to be delayed until the debt is paid off or more easily managed: i.e. a home purchase, children, new cars. </p>

<p>Several times you've mentioned you would like to be a tour guide. Exactly how would that help with the debt load? I can't imagine it would qualify you for in-state tuition or even pay that much, if anything. It doesn't really sound like a "plan" to me. Have you considered a job while attending school? Even a few hours a week would be enough for spending money. If IU is your dream, than you need to consider what you might be willing to do while you're in college to get that debt load lower. </p>

<p>My children have been told that we'll have a hard time paying for an OOS public school from a logical/intellectual viewpoint. There are several fine schools instate for them. We fail to see a real benefit for them to attend an OOS public when most of those academic options are available for an instate fee. (Since we've just started this process, we could be way off base on this though.) Can your state schools really not provide a similar experience for you?</p>

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<p>SoCal18--I think that once you get all your acceptances and you have narrowed your choices down to 2-3, you MUST visit before you can know what your gut is telling you. Sure. more expenses, but don't be penny wise and pound foolish. Visit Indiana. Visit IU, and for that matter Paoli Peaks. You cannot really know a campus by its viewbook and what you can gather from the internet and friends. Simply GO. Perhaps over winter or pring break--just spend the money and go. It will be a wise investment. You may love it even more, but just go.</p>

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<p>Your welcome SoCal18. I think that Rrah has some very good advice. As you know, I agree with it. BTW, definitely visit the school that you plan to attend before you make your final decision!</p>

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<p>There are a lot of people on these boards who wanted very, very badly to go to a particular school, and because of the financial consideration, they chose elsewhere. They are loving their schools and have not imploded.</p>

<p>Debt is a very, very serious consideration. I know you think, "OK, business people make plenty." Often they don't. There are a lot of struggling business majors. I'm guessing you are just graduating from high school and have never lived on your own before. I have to tell you, $800/month is a lot. You have no idea the stuff that pops up in those monthly bills, or how much some of those bills end up costing. That's not even counting how much regular bills actually cost. Comparing average LA cost to average CT costs is not reasonable, since you don't actually know what they are comparing. You may not even live in Bristol - the northeast is different from CA, towns are very small.</p>

<p>Also, your financial aid may be a shocker to you when you get it. Statistically figuring your amount of financial aid may surprise you. Federal need-based financial aid, for example, is not adjusted for cost of living. In this respect, CA residents are at a disadvantage. Also, there are clear yearly limits on federal financial aid that are well below what you would need per year. As a freshman, you will only be eligible for $3500 per year. This rises to $4500 for sophomores and $5500 for upperclassmen. This means you would need to take out private loans. You may not appreciate the difference between federal and private loans now, but you sure will when they become due. The interest will be far more, and it is not locked. Incidentally, I did not see you make any mention of interest at all. Even in federal loans, that interest accumulates while you're in school. Your monthly payment may be higher than you think.</p>

<p>Also, having a high amount of debt will hinder you when you decide to buy a car or a house. Especially when buying a house - they consider your total amount of debt before approving a mortgage amount. What happens if you get married after college and want to buy a house? You very seriously would not be approved for a mortgage on any house that was above a lean-to in CT.</p>

<p>Finally, consider that IU grads make more on average per month. Most IU grads do not go to the northeast. If you go to CT, you are going to be competing with Ivy League business school grads for jobs. Have you considered how your IU degree will play specifically in CT? I promise you, 9 times out of 10, that Harvard grad will get the job. Unfair, maybe, but that's the reality.</p>

<p>My ultimate point is this - it's not a good idea to take on that amount of debt based on an incredible collection of projected plans. A lot can change in a few years. Unfortunately, your debt will not.</p>

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<p>A. There are an unlimited number of H grads. 9 times out of ten none will be competing for the same job. </p>

<p>B. He wants to work in sports business such as ESPN. The former head of ESPN who built it from nothing went to another Big 10 school--Wisconsin. I doubt ESPN has a bias against B10 grads.</p>

<p>"Steve Bornstein is currently the President and CEO of the NFL Network and is also the NFL's Executive-VP of Media. Prior to joining the NFL, Bornstein was the Chairman of ESPN, and also served as president of ABC.</p>

<p>He was born in Fairlawn, New Jersey in 1952, to Julian and Marge Frankel Bornstein, as the youngest of four (Fred, Andy, and Faye), and with four children (Alanna, Carly, Mason and Jude). He attended the University of Wisconsin-Madison and graduated in 1974 with a Bachelor of Science in film.</p>

<p>Steve and his wife Carol in 2002 were featured on the TV show Homes Across America. At the time, they lived in a restored house in Beverly Hills that was once owned by Fred Astaire"</p>

<p>The current ESPN head went to Denison. Another midwest school. I agree $60K of debt is probably too much for undergrad.</p>

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<p>I'm fairly certain the OP will not be stepping straight into a CEO job.</p>

<p>Your first point doesn't make any sense. "There are an unlimited number of H grads." Yes, there are a lot of them, and they like to stay in the New England area, generally speaking. "9 times out of ten none will be competing for the same job." If there are a lots of grads, as you stated, and they are in the same geographical area, why exactly wouldn't they be competing for the same jobs?</p>

<p>Anyway, it has little to do with Harvard vs. IU directly. The point is that it is a region with a lot of business school grads, and they are coming from business schools that are at least as well-respected as IU's. That's a lot of competition to assume that the IU name and connections will get the OP anywhere. It's just a guess, but a good guess that most IU business school grads stay in the midwest (not all, but most).</p>

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<p>I actually don't want to participate on this pile-on SoCal, but something that I remember from when you first started posting about colleges was how you wanted to be near a beach and moderate temps. In fact, I think you crossed New Orleans Schools off your list when you realized it wasn't really near a beach. I would have bet money from your first posts when you talked about how wonderful Miami and San Diego were that that was where you would end up. Anyway, I just wanted to remind you that it's a loooong way to the beach and warm weather in Indiana. Like you said, you've got until May 1 to decide. Once the finaid packages come in you can see where you stand. I strongly agree with the suggestions to go visit before accepting. And I would suggest seeing IU in February. :)</p>

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<p>So Cal, I hate to be the one to rain on your parade.... but since I know kids who work at ESPN I have to tell you-- you aren't going to be one of them. The path is: unpaid internship; second, more prestigious unpaid internship, minimum wage " job" (often no benefits and freelance status so your hours aren't guaranteed) in production, marketing or news; after a year or so a promotion to a real job.</p>

<p>Why won't this be you? 'cause you gotta pay your loans and can't afford to spend two summers or an off-term living in CT with no income; mom and dad won't be able to bankroll you for a few years until you get health insurance and a real job; you have never been to Bristol so you don't understand that unlike NY or Boston there is no subway system so you'll need a car and insurance for a 21 year old man in CT costs big bucks; etc.</p>

<p>You sound like a great kid. If you're interested in ESPN or NBC sports or the NFL or any other cool job you need to get a degree; you need to find a way to be able to afford a semester or a few summers working an unpaid internship in your field; you need to graduate as close to debt free as possible so that when you're working your minimum wage job and sleeping on a friend's couch you can focus on making contacts and getting good at your job, and not focus on how your shift at Subway or Walmart starts in an hour so you'd better get out of work soon to get there on time.</p>

<p>I am willing to bet your first semester's tuition that those salary numbers they quote you at Kelley are comprised of all the kids who take jobs at banks and insurance companies and energy companies, et al. These kids minored in Corporate Finance or majored in Accounting and plan to do the CPA or are halfway through self-studying for the CFA. Those are the big bucks which skew the numbers from Indiana-- the kids who take jobs in the arts or sports or want to do non-profit administration aren't coming out of Kelley (or anywhere else for that matter) with a BS and big bucks.</p>

<p>So- IU is a great place. If you can afford it, and if your career plans realistically jive with your family's financial situation and capacity to support you after you graduate, it sounds like you'd have a ball. If you can't afford it, sounds like you've got some great back up schools as well. Try not to fall in love before all the cards have been played.</p>

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<p>First of all, I would just like to say that I appreciate all of your comments. Okay this may be a long one....</p>

<p>DeepSeekPhd - Okay my estimated loan payment is based on a combo of stafford loans, perkins loans, and private loans. And I know the limits each loan has depending on which year, and I applied all of that to my overall total. And just as a side note, I'm assuming I'll most likely live in an apartment after graduation. I personally don't think a 22 year old should buy a house. Also I don't think I would be at a disadvantage coming from IU, considering their program is ranked 7th in the country for both Finance and Marketing, they actually have sports management, and being in the Big 10 is way more beneficial than the Ivy League which sucks at every sport and has no sports recognition. And I bet 9 times out of 10, I would kick a Harvard grad's ass when it comes to sports and entertainment. But anyways, I understand what you are saying, but I just trust my gut, and that is why I'm having a hard time with this decision. </p>

<p>kathiep - Yah at first I only wanted to be near the ocean, and that is why Pepperdine, UMiami, LMU, and SDSU are still on my list. However I think that sports, school spirit, and a college town vibe is more important to me now that I know exactly what I want from my prospective college.</p>

<p>blossom - It's interesting to hear how people have gotten a career with ESPN, but if I don't get that job it won't be because I have loans. I know exactly what I need to do. I have emailed numerous companies and have read everything on their websites. I'm pretty much guaranteed an internship with the IU Hoosiers during the school year. And I plan to have an intern with MTVU as a campus representative (which the internship is currently open at IU). I also plan to get a job over summer, which gives me the work experience. Also there are tons of companies in LA where I could get an internship. Fox, Nbc, Abc, MTV, E! (all have tv connections) and I have a friend in LA where I could spend the summer. I honestly have thought about every single possibility and I have a back-up plan for everything. And A2Wolves6 (current IU student in their business and sports management program) was offered an internship with ESPN during the summer.</p>

<p>But again I just wanted to say thanks because you are really helping me come to my decision. Honestly I know I will get rejected from UMiami and Pepperdine. And I have eliminated Florida State from my list of possible schools. And more than likely LMU will suck with financial aid. So then you have UPortland vs. SDSU vs. Indiana. I really can't go wrong with either of those three, so I know I will have an amazing time and life wherever I go. But when May 1st comes around and I still feel this strongly about IU, I have to go with my gut. Thanks again...</p>

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<p>Meant to say a limited number of H grads. Most are too busy scamming Wall Street jobs.</p>

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<p>I'd also like to add that Big 10 grads have the option of working for the Big10 network or FSN Midwest....there are plenty of opportunities.</p>

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<p>I didn't mean you should buy a house at 22. But those loans will stick around for a long time.</p>

<p>I think it's great that you've researched your career so well. But a lot of it is still based upon what you "know" will happen. Trust me - you don't know. You have to be sure that if things don't work out the way you plan, you won't be screwed financially. Many people make the same mistake. And those private loan interest rates are going to be really tough on you. Expect the interest rates to rise a lot when the economy rights itself again. With Stafford and Perkins, the rate is locked. Not so with private. I would not want to be sitting on $1000/month in loans with a finance/business undergraduate degree.</p>

<p>Have you thought about what might happen if it becomes necessary for you to get an MBA for the positions you want? The increase in degree demands is happening rapidly for lots of positions, and an MBA is generally self-funded. You would never be able to take on the extra loans to get that degree if it was necessary.</p>

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<p>One thing you ought to rethink if you do pick IU and loans over SDSU and no debt is the fraternity membership. Just to join will be expensive enough, but to not take the opportunity of serving as an RA and living on campus for free --- eliminating a big chunk of your estimated debt --- is foolish, imo. Go with your gut for your dream school if you have to, but do everything you possibly can to reduce that debt load by the time you graduate. RA and free board over frat membership would be the wiser decision.</p>

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<p>jazzymom,</p>

<p>I plan on doing as much as possible to reduce my debt, without ruining my experience as a whole. If I don't have interest in Greek Life when I'm actually in college I will seriously consider the RA option. If I can find an on-campus job in the bookstore, student center, etc. I will definitely take it.</p>

<p>I know you guys see $800/month in debt, and automatically think that is a huge mistake. But I don't think that. I know wherever I go whether it be SDSU or Indiana, I will be able to find the job I'm looking for. I know how to take advantage of all the resources presented to me. But I do see that the cost-of-living in California and the taxes that come with it basically eliminate the difference in loans between the two. Maybe my perspective on life is way different then yours. I just feel you should always enjoy life and live every day like it's your last. I don't know...I just feel I would have a better college experience and life if I go to IU.</p>

<p>Thanks again...</p>

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<p>This is a poster who wants what he wants and isn't really looking for advice. Why do people post simply looking for confirmation?</p>

<p>Yes, certainly, your perspective on life is different than ours. We've actually lived in the real world and lived with debt issues. But please, as you aren't looking for advice - have fun!</p>

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<p>First, my son is an IU freshman this year and he loves it there. He is a Kelley DA, and given his experiences thus far, we are very happy with the decision he made to go IU. HOWEVER, he will only have about $20K of debt when he graduates which we think is not unreasonable. There is absolutely no way he would have chosen IU if it meant the kind of debt you are talking about.</p>

<p>Second, boysx3 made a valid point regarding admission to Kelley. My son is a very strong student and has found the coursework challenging. Generally speaking, a 3.0 gpa is not a sure thing. When S was looking for schools, he eliminated any that didn't offer direct admission into their business school. You need to think about what you would do if, in fact, you weren't admitted to Kelley. How would you feel about the money that you had already invested there?</p>

<p>Finally, several years ago, when my D was searching for schools, we found this web calculator very useful It not only calculates what the monthly payment will be but also the annual salary that you need to be making to be able to make the monthly payments. </p>

<p>FinAid</a> | Calculators | Loan Calculator</p>

<p>She was sure she HAD to go to NYU, but when we punched in the $100K she would have to take out in loans, the starting salary was ridiculous. It was a valuable reality check for her and we never heard another word about NYU.</p>

<p>Using the calculator, $65K, 10 year term, 6.8% = $780 monthly payment. The more important number though is that you need a starting salary of over $89,000 to afford that monthly payment. If you think about this realistically, you'll know that very few students will have that kind of starting salary. </p>

<p>I admire your vision of your future and your enthusiasm. Most kids your age have not given their careers a whole lot of thought, which you obviously have. However, those of us with a little more age and experience under our belts don't want to see you dig yourself into an impossible situation. Even if you were able to obtain that $89K job, it is still a huge debt load that will keep you from taking advantage of other possibilities.</p>

<p>Good luck with your decision.</p>