<p>This goes back to the comment I once made to the relevant office at my law school that truth-in-advertising laws should dictate that they call the place the “FINANCING” office rather than the “financial aid” office. They’re not all that much different from mortgage brokers.</p>
<p>I would not advocate going into excessive debt (whatever your definition of excessive may be) to attend any undergraduate school and my children didn’t do that. But I think a reasonable amount of debt in exchange for an elite school education can be worth it for some students and some families. It’s not just about the strength of the individual student. It’s about the synergy of brain power and resources that happens at a place like Stanford that doesn’t happen at TCNJ. By the way, TCNJ is the most selective of our state schools as far as SAT scores, and is a bit more selective in general than Rutgers, though of course certain programs like pharmacy and engineering at Rutgers will no doubt have a higher average. ( [SAT</a> Scores for New Jersey Colleges - Compare SAT Scores for Four-Year New Jersey Colleges and Universities](<a href=“http://collegeapps.about.com/od/sat/a/top-new-jersey-sat-scores.htm]SAT”>New Jersey Colleges SAT Score Comparison for Admission)) In addition, TCNJ markets itself as an LAC type of experience, or a public Ivy, and so in that way and in campus size is closer in nature to Princeton than Rutgers. It also offered more merit money than Rutgers. That is why I chose it for my example. I didn’t deliberately pick a “3rd tier” state school as I was accused up thread of doing–to the contrary. But that very accusation of it being 3rd tier when it is 1st tier, highlights the fact that our public school choices in NJ are less appealing than what folks have in other states.</p>
<p>Yeah, GFG, I think there’s just not much of a public university system going on up there. I’ve noticed this. I think that is changing and will change, but I do see why those in those states have a different attitude about it. </p>
<p>Rutgers joining the big1G should help you guys out a bit.</p>
<p>I am an actuary and a senior exec at a Fortune 500 company. I graduated from SUNY Stony Brook.</p>
<p>My associates who are at or above my level graduated from the following schools:
St Johns
Union College
Temple University
Hobart and Smith
Stevens Institute of Technology
Tufts
SUNY Stony Brook
Cornell
UConn
Illinois State </p>
<p>I could go on, but do you see Ivies dominate?</p>
<p>But the hiring environment is likely different today than it was when you and those individuals graduated. Also, back then far fewer students left their geographic region for college than do today. So this type of argument may be relevant and it may not.</p>
<p>
I stated I knew nothing about TCNJ. But looking at the CDS for TCNJ the 75% SAT scores are higher than those of UCSB, which you contrasted as an elite school. So your post makes even less sense.
So I guess now we’re supposed to believe that the job market has something against people from New Jersey for some reason, unless they attend Princeton. And that you have some particularly inept acquaintances since none of them seem to be able to find employment. Except the miniscule number who attend elite schools. Of course you have to attend these schools to get a job. Because of the “changed job market.” Those million good jobs a year going to grads aren’t really there. Only around 20K grads find work each year.</p>
<p>Because simple logic dictates that plenty of people from state schools are getting jobs around the country. A fact you continue to ignore because you just don’t want to believe it.</p>
<p>The interns we have hired are from a mixed bag of schools with an actuarial science program.</p>
<p>^^^
I wouldn’t waste my breath. I’m about to give up.</p>
<p>All I know is that we hire smart, confident kids.</p>
<p>Haha, smokinact. I read your post and was about to reply “yes, but in 3…2…1 someone will say ‘the world is different now’”–and just like clockwork, there’s TheGFG.</p>
<p>I need to investigate our state land grant school as they are apparently not being truthful with their employment stats. Their College of Ag is reporting that 95% of their 2012 grads (about 1,000 students) have professional positions in the field of their choice. majors include…
Ag Business
Ag & Life Sci. Educ.
Ag Studies
Agronomy
Animal Ecology
Animal Science
Ag Systems Tech.
Biochem
Biology
Dairy Science
Dietetics
Env. Science
Food Science
Forestry
Genetics
Global Resource Sys
Horticulture
Industrial Technology
Insect Science
Microbiology</p>
<p>And, their CS and sfotware engineering program is reporting 95% placement with an average salary over $60,000 per year in a low cost state and region.</p>
<p>And their business school is reporting 95% placement.</p>
<p>Liars.</p>
<p>I think The GFG needs to find some new friends. Apparently, they are pretty lame.</p>
<p>excellent record Haystack.</p>
<p>Smokinact, what majors do you hire? I confess ignorance, but never knew actuarial science was an undergraduate major. Neither one of my kid’s schools offered it.</p>
<p>Mostly students in an actuarial science programs (a lot of schools have them now) but sometimes applied math/economics majors.</p>
<p>The bottom line: “…found that equally smart students had about the same earnings whether or not they went to top-tier colleges.”</p>
<p>For those who want current information about the value of a degree to recent college graduates, Virginia has put out a list of starting salaries for graduates of every college, public or private in the state. </p>
<p>Here’s the stats from Virginia (an article summarizing them and the whole PDF for those who want all the details):</p>
<p><a href=“http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...gher-education[/url]”>http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...gher-education</a></p>
<p><a href=“Search | American Institutes for Research”>Search | American Institutes for Research;
<p>^^^
Beliavsky would be so proud.</p>
<p>“Mostly students in an actuarial science programs (a lot of schools have them now) but sometimes applied math/economics majors”</p>
<p>A major that few or none of the Ivies offer.</p>
<p>“I am an actuary and a senior exec at a Fortune 500 company. I graduated from SUNY Stony Brook.”</p>
<p>As someone in the actuarial field myself, the best and the brighest in math that would have previously become actuaries now work as analysts for hedge fund. Money isn’t comparable.</p>
<p>The Wall Steet Journal recently published-“Push to Gauge Bang for Buck from College Gains Steam,” February 2013:</p>
<p>[Cost</a> of College: Push to Gauge Bang for Buck From College Gains Steam - WSJ.com](<a href=“Cost of College: Push to Gauge Bang for Buck From College Gains Steam - WSJ”>Cost of College: Push to Gauge Bang for Buck From College Gains Steam - WSJ)</p>