<p>Honestly, if you’d read the thread, you would hardly see me as reinforcing the ivy or elite or bust mentality. Sheesh. If you read the site (I lurked here for about 9 months before posting) you’d realize how completely OFF you are in terms of what I have to say.</p>
<p>finalchild, you’re okay, sometimes, but you’re a bit full of yourself. It’s not like you are coming in here with new information that hasn’t ever been discussed. and it’s just rude to ask a poster about her number of posts.</p>
<p>We post here because we care about education and find it diverting. Most of us manage to disagree without getting personal. Don’t be “that” guy.</p>
<p>fc I find a lot of interesting things on here. Why are you participating if yoi have such a low o opinion of the site? And people can argue philosophical issues withouit being overly personally invested.</p>
<p>^^^^Just saying this is a very, very odd place to be, with that frequency, over that long a period time, to have absolutely no issues or zero sensitivity to the issues being raised in this thread (which are at the heart of the site). And where did I say I disliked the site?</p>
<p>Sorry, I’m a duplicity freak. Character flaw I haven’t cured in 50+ years.</p>
<p>Obviously, I never learned from…“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.”</p>
<p>I’ve used the “post count gambit” myself. Maybe against pg. It was a vapid argument then and nothing has changed imo. “Duplicity freak” as in obsessed fan of dishonesty?</p>
<p>Please don’t be “that” gal lecturing about behavior.</p>
<p>I respect the long-timers and have learned a lot from the “regulars.” I’m not criticizing the frequency or number of posts in any way. I’m saying there is a disjunction between being that involved in the site and having absolutely no sensitivities in the “elite” vs “non-elite” debates. Doesn’t ring true for me, that’s all.</p>
<p>And even if I concede to being a jerk, I still think the underlying question was fair…I mean, if anyone actually wants to advance the discussion and what underlies the core problem many of us are agreeing about as existing (but perhaps disagreeing about how to pursue improvements).</p>
<p>All of disagree on some things from time to time, and agree on others. Bovertine and I disagreed just last week. Neither of us called each other any names, either. And if the two of us can play nice, so can everyone else. :p</p>
<p>I’m not responding to the totality of your “work” on CC. I’m simply responding to the ONE statement above. As I read it, you are equating “elite,” as really defined by our ultra recent obsession with USNWR rankings, to the “best.” In my estimation, that is simply not true. There are lots of schools that are “best” for lots of kids, that may save the family $100,000 or more to boot.</p>
<p>On the issue of caring aboit this elite stuff - I confess to still being irked at my rejection 40 years sgo but I takr folks ay their word whem they say they don’t care</p>
<p>Elite schools are elite but I figured out long ago that’s its not because they teach harder math or better history.</p>
<p>They are elite because they are a brand. They have excellent reputations for producing grads that become highly successful. Another reason they are elite is because they have über wealthy and powerful networks. The final reason they are elite is that they are exclusive.</p>
<p>Excellent, high potential kids go to schools of all types across the country but only a handful of schools have the branding, the networks and exclusivity that make elite schools elite.</p>
<p>Those connections, particularly for STEM jobs, are VERY regional though. For instance, an engineer wanting to live on the West Coast, will likely be far better off with a degree from Cal Poly or Santa Clara than they would be with a degree from Dartmouth, Brown or Harvard. Yet, the two California schools are not even spoken about in the same breath as the Ivies.</p>
<p>"CC is at the vortex of the entire college craze/elite admissions/elite choices phenomenon. "</p>
<p>Parent forum is where the elites/elitelites/I don’t believe in elites/lets rumble whatever the issue groups duel to death about nothing that actually matters because this is for self-amusement. If people can do it without insulting each other, we are getting somewhere.</p>
<p>Actual work happens in the yearly class threads, pre-med forums, finance forums, SAT forums and other places. People are incredibly supportive of each other, listen to each other’s choices, commiserate through their miseries, and in general so helpful it makes them friends for life outside of CC too. You start a thread asking for which community college to go to and someone who knows something will chip in with advice.</p>
<p>bovertine, I tend to take people at the their word also…until they give me reason not to. I know a little something about protesting too much.</p>
<p>There’s a lot of narcissism here to go around. Some can judge from on high because deep down they think they are the “experts” who have it all figured out, so when they are “rude” they seem to get a pass, but then when directed the other way we see these hypersensitive, outraged (and outsized) reactions…which of course flies in the face of “not caring” and being “above it all.”</p>
<p>I admit to caring a lot about this topic. I care, but not because I need or want friends and neighbors to validate me, my kids, or any of our college-related choices. Honestly, I’m content with our decisions and can accept from others disagreement and divergence on this topic.</p>
<p>But to be honest, I’m not so fine with the disdain and insult over college affiliation, which seems to be all-too-frequent in my life. What’s worse is that it’s not me who even gets the benefit of the degree in exchange, but my kids. Enough parents have strong emotions attached to college admissions stuff that they allow their anger, frustration, and disappointment to victimize those who got what they wanted. I can’t seem to escape it. In fact, the nastiness was so frequent that for a while I thought I might be imagining it. But when a friend told me this story, I realized it’s not just me: </p>
<p>This friend and her neighbor were chatting by the mailbox one day about getting together for dinner. The conversation turned to spring break plans, and my friend mentioned that she was taking her D to visit colleges. The neighbor asked which ones, and my friend answered “Yale and Cornell.” The neighbor said, “Well, I can see that this friendship isn’t going to work if you’re looking at schools like those for your D. We just aren’t the same kind of people!” and then turned on her heel and walked off. Sounds extreme, right? After all, the kid didn’t even get in yet! But I’ve lived this. It’s pretty relentless and unavoidable, since anti-Ivy attitudes pop up in surprising places. In other words, it’s not just a matter of avoiding certain people or certain topics. </p>
<p>For example, last month I went to an Easter play at a local church. The drama juxtaposed the times of Jesus with modern day life. Well, guess who was the contemporary equivalent of the wicked Pharisees who hated Jesus? Successful Ivy graduates!</p>
<p>One of the resons I stayed around CC was to be able to report back from a future time how our decision worked out 4 and 6 years later (merit vs. Ivy).</p>
<p>What I realized along the way was that so much depends on the student and their personality, desires, and future view of their own world. </p>
<p>There is just no way anyone elses outcome can determine if YOUR outcome may turn out the way you want it. There are way too many variables.</p>
<p>What I CAN suggest to anyone is to see where the college you are choosing has their graduates being employed or has their graduates get into grad school. Then you know what seems to be possible.</p>
<p>My belief is to send my kids to the best school we can afford. If I made $1 million/yr, I would have no problem sending my kid regardless of the cost. But, I don’t make $1 million/yr. For us, the cost of Harvard and State school was the same. So kid had a choice. For me $55,000/yr vs free - no competition. Can’t afford $55,000/yr, so it would be the free school.</p>
<p>Note that with potential expensive medical school in the equation, it would be better to save the $220,000 for medical school to reduce the amount of total student loan debt involved.</p>
<p>You are presuming that there would be debt involved. All nellec2 said is that they don’t qualify for need based Financial Aid. Does that mean they make $200,000/yr or $2,000,000/yr. If the latter, then it is not debt. Maybe one less Mediterranean vacation per year.</p>
<p>If I made $1,000,000/yr, I have no problem with investing $60,000/yr in whatever top school they could get into. Regardless of the ROI. If it costs $240,000 to help them make an extra $5k/yr, then so be it. That $5k/yr is worth a lot more to them than $60,000/yr to me (assuming I’m making $1,000,000/yr).</p>
<p>I would rather my kid be dependent upon their own hard work than an extra $250,000 inheritance from me.</p>
<p>BTW: What’s the point of making money if you can’t spend it on what you want?</p>
:p</p>