<p>blossom, I wasn’t going to respond here again but I can’t PM you. I have NO IDEA what position in life you think I am in or why you are refusing to actually read my posts. You make it sound like I am some independently wealthy trust-funder who can let her kids study underwater basket weaving and still know they will be given a few acres on the provincial estate and get to live off the family fortune without working. THERE IS NO FORTUNE. I am a single middle-class mom with a so-so salary in my full-time job and no family resources available to help my kids through college. Did I come from an old-money New England family way back? Yes, on one side. But that is not of any benefit to either me or my kids. There is nothing left. I already told you this. My father was a working-class immigrant who came here with all his worldly goods in a single small steamer trunk. Please stop trying to position me as privileged and “other.” It’s maddening and presumptuous, as well as completely untrue.</p>
<p>How awful, bookmouse! It is true that some parents and some educational environments put too much pressure on kids who may not have the stuff to handle it.</p>
<p>That said, what I get defensive about is when people (not referring to you, bookmouse) who don’t really know me or my kids assume that if my children are at elite schools, I must have pushed them, stressed them out, made them hate me, and generally caused them to have a miserable, cheerless childhood. And that now they’re probably socially inept and emotionally damaged, and of course snobby and entitled too. In addition, they imply I must be a prestige-hound who foolishly overpaid for college when my kids could have gone to Rutgers, which is where they went and they are doing just fine. Then these same parents self-righteously proclaim that THEY want their kids to be happy and healthy, so they are fine if their kids take regular classes instead of honors classes and sleep in on Saturday instead of doing EC’s. Then they top if off by saying the kids at Rutgers are just as smart as those at Princeton anyway. </p>
<p>Right, except that my kids were happy and healthy, did have nice childhoods, love me and call me regularly, and are well-adjusted young people who had a great time in college studying alongside top-notch peers who did take honors classes and wake up on Saturdays. My kids are neither snobby nor entitled. Did they work extremely hard for years? Yes they did, but because they WANTED to. They enjoyed the academic challenge and they certainly enjoy the results of their efforts. Just ask my D how much fun it is to attend Stanford, and she’ll talk your ear off!</p>
<p>I’m all about mockery, but I made a New Year’s resolution to be a nicer person this year. All I’ll say is this: It is probably somewhat apparent by now where my rooting interest lies, and I was absolutely shocked – shocked – to hear how many parents who were there for admitted students days were disappointed to be there rather than somewhere in New England. I guess I grew up too far out in the sticks to understand, but it was a real eye-opener.</p>
A lot of parents were disappointed their child was going to be attending Duke? Wow. Really? Isn’t it a top 10 school or something?</p>
<p>A guy I work with had two kids at MIT and one at Cal. He refers to the kid at Cal as “the slacker.” And he’s serious. He’s a nice guy, but when he gets to talking about his kids we just sit there with mouths agape.</p>
<p>I’d be extremely disappointed if one of my kids considered Duke, because of the reputation of the frat boy types who go there. But to borrow a phrase from some old guy, “Now, nobody’s saying those kids are the majority – but as a minority, they really stand out on campus.”</p>
<p>And therein lies the problem, reinforced by poetgirl here:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>There is a presumption, held by some, that if it isn’t an Ivy, it isn’t a “real” education.</p>
<p>I wholly agree that a HYP, et. al. is likely a better option than CSU San Bernadino for quality of education, but that’s really not a fair comparison. There are lots of schools where students can get a great education. For the individual they may be on par with or better than an Ivy League school. </p>
<p>No one can argue with a student’s decision not to apply to Cornell because they don’t want to be in classes with 600 other students. No one can argue with a student who does not apply to Harvard because their undergraduate instruction in many areas is notoriously poor. No one can argue with a student that passes on MIT or Cal Tech because it’s well known that much of their undergraduate instruction will be by foreign graduate students.</p>
<p>Every student comes to their decision for their own reasons. Those criteria are what makes their choices “best” for them.</p>
<p>So if you know the truth - and I have no doubt whatsoever that your kids enjoyed their academic challenges, were self-motivated, and are happy as clams at their schools, and more power to them! – and I don’t for one minute think you were a “prestige hound” – why do you CARE so much what “those other people” think? Let 'em think it. Let 'em say it and let their words fall to the floor. Whatever. You know they’re wrong. Why do you let their yammering about stuff they don’t know about bother you so much? You can’t fix stupid. </p>
<p>You’ve got bright, healthy kids at Harvard and Stanford (I think)! The world is their oyster! Yay for you and them, and to heck with ignorant nay-sayers!</p>
<p>Anyone who doubts my assertion about Harvard should read this article in the Harvard Crimson Magazine: [The</a> Fall of Academics at Harvard | Magazine | The Harvard Crimson](<a href=“The Harvard Crimson”>The Harvard Crimson)</p>
<p>Here’s a couple of quotes:</p>
<p>“The scandal speaks to a more systemic problem with the value Harvard places on its undergraduate education. The institution and the community condones, if not promotes, academic dishonesty, emphasizing prestige over intellectual growth. Academics are no longer the priority of the students or teachers at Harvard College.”</p>
<p>“This prevalence of academic dishonesty is symptomatic of a pervading mentality on campus that neglects the classroom.”</p>
<p>"Liokumovich says that although some teaching fellows for Ec 10 were absolutely wonderful, others did not take their role or their teaching seriously. I used to get p-sets back from my first TF that just didnt have anything on themjust numbers, no feedback, he says. Liokumovich was so unsatisfied with his section that he ended up switching out: I said, It cant be worseyou cant get any worse. It ended up being not that much better.</p>
<p>“That said, what I get defensive about is when people (not referring to you, bookmouse) who don’t really know me or my kids assume that if my children are at elite schools, I must have pushed them, stressed them out, made them hate me, and generally caused them to have a miserable, cheerless childhood.”</p>
<p>they are just jealous of your kids great fortune. And have to pull you and them down “psychologically” in their own heads in order to elevate their kids and their own standing in an imaginary “pecking order” they have subconsciously created, in order make themselves feel better.
I agree with Pizzagirl- just ignore them!</p>
<p>Shame on them, for not being excited that they were attending a fine school. (OK, Duke’s not to my personal taste, but I can’t argue that it’s not a fine school.) Those parents are LOSERS. The attitudes that they are imparting to their kids for being “disappointed” in “only” attending Duke are the attitudes of LOSERS. Why get so bothered by them? I would just roll my eyes and ignore them, and frankly I’d advise my kids not to hang around those kids, unless they grew up and fast and realized how darn privileged they were to get into a school of that caliber.</p>
<p>I can’t speak for anyone else, but for me, neither of those statements are true. I’m neither ignorant nor jealous. Nor to I hold any ill will towards any one who’s kids go to an “elite school”.</p>
<p>If those are the places that fit your kid, for whatever reason, it’s wonderful that they found their fit. I push back at those who claim that the HYPS are the ONLY place to get a good or “the best” education, regardless of cost. It’s simply not true. There are too many nuances in each situation to make such a claim.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, the culture SHOULD BE scorned…while not claiming to be entirely immune to it.</p>
<p>For the record, I do believe it is a massive problem. The suicides at that high school referenced demonstrates how big. I go on a whole thesis about the washing of away of identity in our culture, how there is nor room to develop and create an identity and that kids are pushed to just sharpen the rough edges off their ever-growing resumes…but we don’t fix it by acting like we are uneffected. I WANT people to be convinced about how good a school like Wooster is rather than lip-service to this effect…and where a kid choosing it over an “elite” is commonplace rather than a rarity or something that only happens when there is a massive aid difference. But I also don’t have to just blames others for this, because I know within my own self that I am not 100% settled in this regard, and I don’t think we will get anywhere until we understand that internal flinch, not matter how small.</p>
<p>Of course we should let ourselves be distracted, impacted, or wrong-footed by “what our neighbors think” (in reality and symbolically), but I don’t believe anyone who says they are never sensitive to or impacted by that.</p>
<p>And I apologize if I offended anyone. And now I’m out (of this thread anyway).</p>
<p>You’re going to have to trust me that I am pretty much immune to what my neighbors think, since I am cordial but that’s about it. I have my own set of friends. I doubt more than a handful of my neighbors even know where my kids go to school. I think two of them know where D goes to school – one because he’s genuinely interested, the other because she’s originally from Boston herself. I think that IRL, people who say much beyond “Oh, how nice for him or her, good luck!” are boors. </p>
<p>One of my closest friends is searching for her son and personally I wouldn’t use the criteria she’s using – keeping it within a very tight radius (when money is not the object). I think it hampers her kid. But so what – ultimately it’s not my kid or my family decision to make. I have suggested, “Oh, if you’re willing to go a little further afield, have you considered XYZ School” but why would I ever say anything other than “how wonderful for him!” when she announces the final decision? Another friend of mine has a kid who is lovely, but just not as academically inclined as my kids were. Why would I comment on her consideration set other than “Oh, I hear XYZ campus is beautiful – have fun!” </p>
<p>I think you change culture by refusing to participate in it, not by trying to “convince” people of different things. The snots who are “disappointed” in Duke – I wouldn’t waste my breath on them.</p>
<p>Sorry for all my typos and missing words above.</p>
<p>I mean neighbors in the bigger sense. I don’t know a lot of the people that actually live literally “next door.”</p>
<p>I agree you can’t convince people of things to change culture. When when we own things, and then that leads to others owning, and think there can be some synergy there.</p>
<p>There is a point of no return I agree. I mean, if all of us who can’t get in HYP should just off ourselves, then not many people are going to be around. But on the other hand, I don’t think we should say “my kid could have gone to Harvard if he wanted to.” That’s like all the parents who have a kid playing D3 athletics and can’t resist the qualification “but could have played D1 if he wanted to.” </p>
<p>Duke is usually on the other side of these debates.</p>
<p>btw, Pizzagirl, and I’m not trying to be a jerk, why DO you have over 14,000 posts here…especially given your very evolved, self-secure state of being?</p>
<p>You succeeded without trying. Some people find the site entertaining. What difference does the number of oosts make? People. post for all sorts of reasons .</p>