<p>“MPM - who are we kidding. USC is plenty elite”
busted!! [sort of…]
In 2006, USC still had a 40% acceptance rate and a not so “elite” reputation. We received plenty of "your son is going WHERE???"reactions from those who knew where he had also been accepted, when told of his decision to enroll at USC.
Fortunately for both him and for current students - USC is an entirely different college than it was even 10 short years ago!</p>
<p>How has it changed? Are the professors paying better attention to their students? Are the classes more engaging? Has the curriculum been transformed? What made it better?</p>
<p>
I see two problems with statements like this. First, you don’t know how these people would have ended up without Harvard degrees–perhaps they would have been even more lowly than (shudder!) middle managers. Second, perhaps their Harvard degrees did some things for them that can’t be measured in terms of annual income.</p>
<p>There’s no question that elite college educations are a luxury, but people enjoy them and get benefits from them. Is a person who has taken a vacation in Europe better off than somebody who went to Epcot? Not financially, probably.</p>
<p>^^ more poorer and better students attend obsoleting urban dictionary moniker for USC?</p>
<p>These are some of the things that have changed:
The much higher overall academic caliber of enrolled students compared to 10 years ago, which any professor can tell you makes a big difference in the academic vitality of a campus. USC took a page out of the Wash U’s, and Rice enrollment playbooks, and that has attracted more top students to come to USC, which in turn has attracted has more academically focused students to apply. A positive viscous cycle is the result. </p>
<p>Whites are now a minority of UG students, much like at Berkeley.
The higher caliber of top professors who have been [ financially] enticed to come to USC from many elite universities and top public U’s.
USC is no longer spoken of in academic circles as the “university of spoiled children " but the University of Stolen Colleagues”
The size of the endowment and the results of USC’s latest capital campaign- they are well on their way to meeting their current 6 Billion dollar goal in the next 2 years.
Their building campaign- all over campus new buildings are planned, or are under construction and in the immediate area west of campus USC will spend $1.1 Billion on 350,000 sq ft of new student housing, academic and retail space on 200 acres they own adjacent to University Park.
USC is no longer the default private college for rich, not so smart students from SCal.
It is no longer a “commuter” school for SCal students who go home on the weekend. 'The % of students who pledge fraternities and sororities is below 20%.</p>
<p>I’m waiting for the study that reports most people remember best the study that supports their past decisions. It would be followed by the study that reminds us there all all kinds of options for all kinds of families and the best choice for you is the one that works best for your family whether it makes financial sense or just on a whim. </p>
<p>I don’t think there are outcome absolutes to be found in college choice - am not saying that’s what’s being said here, but once you’ve read about one study like this, all subsequent ones are a rehash. It’s investigating the wing span of the angel on the head of a pin. It’s enough, for me, that we raised kids who are in a position to have a choice. I’ll ride off now into the sunset on my hobby horse (crushing student debt).</p>
<p>@vienna man -
Not 60-70%. They don’t take that many internationals.</p>
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<p>You don’t know that. What an elite degree “does” for you may or may not be measured in what your workplace success looks like. Maybe they are happy as clams. I know Harvard undergrads (and MBA grads) who are now stay-at-home mothers – did their Harvard degrees “do” nothing for them? </p>
<p>I agree completely with Hunt. The value is not just in the workplace. It could simply be in having a certain life experience that you enjoy greatly.</p>
<p>Mini - USC has been really upping its game in terms of throwing lots of money at really bright hs students to entice them away from the very top-tier schools.</p>
<p>I agree with @UCB.</p>
<p>If your kid wants to be a teacher or social worker or anthropologist or athlete or artist, etc. then racking up debt is a huge gamble you’ll likely lose.</p>
<p>If they’re going for investment banking, chief financial officer, management consultant, engineer, physicist, etc., I say go for the elite education.</p>
<p>My rule isn’t absolute but I used as a guide as someone relying on finaid to get kids thru 4 yrs of college</p>
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<p>IF the only purpose of elite education is to “make it back” through increased earnings in the workplace. I don’t believe that’s the sole value of an elite education. I, personally, couldn’t GAS if my S at Northwestern winds up making not a penny more than what he would have made going to U of Illinois. That’s not the return-on-investment I seek out of the whole thing. To use Hunt’s travel analogy, there’s not a single more penny any of us will ever make out of vacationing in Europe versus Epcot; that doesn’t mean it’s not an investment we value or that we might not deem it worthwhile.</p>
<p>Good points, Pizzagirl. </p>
<p>To those worrying about loss of FA with increased income… remember that merit $ usually has risk of loss with low GPA. We all have smart kids. But stuff happens. The only sure thing is merit scholarship with no college GPA stipulation - we rarely saw that (RPI is the only one I can think of).</p>
<p>Guess we have a new and I’m sure surprising leader in the ‘elite’ category UCSB just ranked #2 WORLDWIDE. </p>
<p>Leiden Ranking
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<p>[CWTS</a> Leiden Ranking 2013 - Ranking](<a href=“http://www.leidenranking.com/ranking]CWTS”>CWTS Leiden Ranking - Ranking 2022)</p>
<p>In the words of Gomer Pyle Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!</p>
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<p>The smart and budget conscious travel is the one who went to Lake Como before Mr. Clooney bought the mansion on the lake; or Croatia before Travelzoo began offering deals; or Costa Rica before AARP started it’s ad campaign etc. In other words…the smart ones often find the gem BEFORE the hoards trample their paths. And with trampling hoards comes the hope of being elite, the benefit of paying premiums and yes, often time the ability to say 'I stayed where George Clooney ownes a mansion, and therefore the local food is better than X years ago, the people are ‘better’ and the overall experience was worth the overpayment I happily made for my room overlooking the back wall of the highly rated hotel". </p>
<p>Now…those old East Block countries are still a deal to be had…</p>
<p>^Sure, but there’s a reason why people keep going to Paris, Rome and London, the HYP of the travel world.</p>
<p>^^^ Or Berlin, Prague, Warsaw…the up and coming HYP’s…with very similar experience offerings and fewer overpaying hoards ;)</p>
<p>People keep going because … other people keep telling them how important it is to go…</p>
<p>People keep going because…how beautiful those cities truly are. People really are not that gullible. I have returned to those cities many times, and would continue to do so because of my personal experience.</p>
<p>
Whose debt are we talking about here? I can only understand this viewpoint if the debt must be repaid by the kid, either to the lender or to the parents. I have never been able to understand the reasoning of parents who say “I’ll only pay for you to go to a pricey school if you’re going into a highly-paid field” unless they wish to be repaid (which is their prerogative, of course).</p>
<p>If the parents don’t need/expect to be repaid, I don’t get why it matters what the kid majors in or chooses to pursue as a career, provided all agree that the kid will be independent within a reasonable time frame after graduation.</p>
<p>
My wife likes the Canary Islands. I prefer Grenoble.<br>
But usually we go to Missouri or Peru because that’s where her relatives live.
To each their own.</p>
<p>There are a lot of people in the South of France in the summer, but what i remember from my visit is a lot of dog poop on the beach. THe place where I live is more beautiful than that, IMO. YMMV.</p>
<p>[Chron.com</a> : Program helps low-income students make it to the Ivy League](<a href=“http://mobile.chron.com/chron/db_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=9Ym1WonT&full=true#display]Chron.com”>http://mobile.chron.com/chron/db_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=9Ym1WonT&full=true#display)</p>
<p>Someone started a thread with this story elsewhere. If a guy with Yale degree becomes an elementary school teacher in a major urban city and also starts a non-profit to get poor kids accepted at schools which take care of full-freight for them then a Yale degree has served its purpose. The return to society is a lot more than the return to just one person.</p>
<p>As I read the article in the original OP, it actually says yes, it may be worth it to pay for an ELITE college, but not necessarily a non-elite private.</p>
<p>The difference between going to Swarthmore and Penn State is greater today than it was in 1976 because there are higher returns to all upper-end skills and connections, he said. By contrast, a larger, private, expensive nonelite university was not necessarily better than the flagship campus of a top-notch state university. </p>
<p>This is obviously a family decision. I have/had 2 kids at private non-elites with scholarships, and the last is going elite LAC almost full-pay. Each kid is different in his/her needs. None are looking at med or law school. No loans needed. What works for us doesn’t work for everyone.</p>