<p>Our DD has applied to several UC's and (OOS/privates) awaiting acceptances. Recently, over a series of high school activities, our parent peers, who have gone through the UC system with their other children, have mentioned their children's UC experiences and these have not been described or given in a positive light. </p>
<p>They have mentioned office hours whereby 300 students attend! Fees have gone up and class sizes are ridiculous. They've mentioned that their children hated their schools or felt isolated.</p>
<p>Our family is considered URM (Mexican Amer.) and on visits to the campuses, my child feels as though no one looks like her. Our older DD also was accepted at UC's but felt the same way as current DD, so older DD chose OOS. Older DD has been very happy with her decision, education and her school in NY and will be graduating with degree in engineering.</p>
<p>If she gets into the UC's would we be wrong in encouraging our 2nd DD away from UC's where she is now beginning to feel uncomfortable? We're hoping she gets into choices from OOS schools. We're from Southern CA and she's been given her ELC letter.</p>
<p>I suggest you wait and see what options your DD has before making a decision.</p>
<p>Everyone’s experience at school is unique, so you can’t always go from those stories. At the same time, if you start out looking for a problem, it might show up.</p>
<p>Just keep an open mind and hang on. It’s hard to wait, but you’ll get all the information you need within the next few weeks.</p>
<p>Agree with LimaBeans, more information is pending. I think it is easy in this state to see either tippy top privates or the UCs as the be-all and end-all. But, there are a range of wonderful schools out there. One key factor in our family will be cost, and we are waiting for financial aid letters. One of my Ds applied to a number of UCs, but went to a private Uni instead. She has good friends from HS who are very happy at their respective UCs, doing research with faculty, and enjoying the social and academic experiences. D2 decided not to apply to the UCs at all, but she did apply to some Cal States and privates. She had good reasons. She is one to comment if an environment seems insufficiently diverse, also. The wait for the added information (admits, financial aid, student decision) is hard…</p>
<p>I grew up living on a UC campus when my parents were in grad school, whereby I’ve worked, interned, and even studied for/at the school for some time. Here are my two cents:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>True, the UC system doesn’t boast a small student:faculty ratio. In fact in most of the intro/frosh science classes, your classroom will likely be filled with 500+ students. Some classes, depending on the rigor of the course, may even be taught by grad students. However, (and you know there’s a catch): There’s rarely a case where an inquiring student was turned away by their professor because of the sheer quantity of personal requests. Filled office hours are one thing. Before/after class, emails, and other forms of contact are another, and professors will typically honor their students’ attempts at contact. </p></li>
<li><p>Most UCs have 40-50,000 students (I think UCLA is slightly less than 45,000). It’s easy to feel “overwhelmed” because of the number of people, but it’s also easy to find your own niche among such diversity. One thing UCs CAN boast is a very large % of minority students (i.e. African, Hispanic, Asian, international) in its demographic. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>With that said, I’d like to echo mamita’s post above: I would wait for all the decisions to come out first, and perhaps even visit a few choice campuses, before ruling out the UCs with a blanket veto. UCLA & UCB offer some of the best pre-med/engineering programs in the nation (ranked against other public institutions), and UCDavis boasts a world renowned microbiology/agricultural science department. It all depends on what your child is interested in.</p>
<p>Hope that helps a little, and best of luck on making your decisions! Don’t hesitate to PM with more questions.</p>
<p>UCLA and Berkeley are in the 35,000 to 40,000 student range (including both undergraduates and graduates). USC (a private school) is in the same range, but with a higher number of graduates and a lower number of undergraduates.</p>
<p>But the UCs are different from each other; which UCs and which other schools are under consideration?</p>
<p>Relevant questions would include: what are the cost constraints, and what is the student considering majoring in?</p>
<p>But until you get all of the admission decisions and financial aid and scholarship offers, you will not have complete information with which to make your decision.</p>
<p>I don’t think you should rule out the UCs based on a few conversations. They’re world class universities that offer a wealth of opportunities. It’s true that there are a lot of students attending a particular UC but on the other hand the UC is large and can handle them. Some popular intro courses are large but ad they progress they’ll likely be in courses with far fewer students. I don’t think many courses are taught by TAs. Depending on the major it’s possible that none will be.</p>
<p>Regarding ‘no on looks like her’ - the ethnic breakdown of the top UCs is certainly skewed compared with the general population. The number one ethnicity is Asian and it’s very noticeable when walking around. OTOH there are enough people attending the school that in fact there are people form many ethnic backgrounds so if it’s important for her to connect with people of her ethnicity there’s a good chance she’ll be able to but she’ll likely have to give it some effort. OTOH you might find that she doesn’t care that she’s around people with a different background than her.</p>
<p>I think you should keep considering the UCs and look at all of the attributes of the particular ones versus whatever other schools she’s interested in and gets accepted to.</p>
<p>From what I remember, TAs were the primary instructors only in small freshman reading and composition courses. This may also be true in beginning foreign language courses. In all other cases where TAs were present, they were doing supplemental discussions. It is true that many freshman and sophomore level courses will have a faculty member with a class of hundreds of students, with TAs’ supplemental discussions of under 30. But some freshman and sophomore level honors courses and junior and senior level courses will have a total class size of 30 or fewer, while still getting both a faculty member and a TA teaching the course.</p>
<p>Major choice can make a big difference. Biology majors are likely to find a lot of big classes at most schools, because biology is a very popular major.</p>
<p>Although all ethnic groups except for Asian ones are URM (in a literal sense, not a policy sense) at most UC campuses, the student populations are generally large enough that a student from an ethnic background that is not rare to begin with should not have trouble finding others of the same ethnic background (Mexican American is not rare).</p>
<p>My daughter is currently at UCB. I am actually surprised at the opportunities she has had. They are there to be had for the student who reaches out. And, beyond the requirements, the classes get smaller. She is from an ethnically diverse public hs in LA and has a very diverse grouping of friends at school. You’ll hear all kinds of “stuff” about any school. I’m with the others on this. See what her options are (and you’ll know very soon); visit where you can and she’ll “know” what’s right for her</p>
<p>Your DD was probably not even considering UCR or UC Merced, but you will definitely find people that ‘look like you’ on those campuses. UCR is one of the country’s most diverse campuses.</p>
<p>I have a kid at a Cal State and a kid at a UC. I feel like they are both getting a quality education and they both love it. I wouldn’t go off of a few conversations. I have friends with kids at private schools who are unhappy. Some kids would be unhappy anywhere.</p>
<p>A LOT depends on your finances. If you can afford OOS publics, or a private, then certainly consider those. But privates are now pushing $60/yr. Personally, I would not pay full freight at any OOS public, when you have a fine range of publics in your backyard at ~half the price. (All publics have large classes and TAs who teach discussion sections.)</p>
<p>If your D would much prefer a campus with a plurality of Hispanics, consider the Cal States.</p>
<p>Like most publics, UC offers no hand-holding. (They just can’t afford it.) Advising is pretty bad at UC, so one has to be aggressive. OTOH, UCs offer world-class professors and research opportunities.</p>
<p>I think what bothered her most when I posted “nobody looked like her”, is that she is very fair skinned and she doesn’t always “dress” in a conventional manner-likes to be goofy at times.</p>
<p>I think there are always kids at every school that like to do things differently (dress, etc). MY DS has long hair and wears ear gauges, and gets along great with everyone. He just wears and does what he wants to do, and people accept him for it.</p>
<p>I do understand, though, the desire to fit in. I think it is probably more of a girl thing.</p>
<p>It sounds like she has many wonderful choices of schools!</p>
<p>Our son also received an ELC letter and was accepted to 4 UCs including UCB, in the end he decided on a LAC that gave him merit aid. Why? Because of the close-knit community and easy access to faculty, where ALL the classes are small and there is a big emphasis on written communication skills, something that huge state schools just aren’t well equipped to offer. </p>
<p>His friends who attend UCs are often taking more than 4 years to graduate, or spending every summer trying to catch up on classes. In the end, he’ll graduate in 4 years and we won’t have spent any more than paying for an in-state tuition with very probable extra semesters. He’ll also graduate with an active alumni network.</p>
<p>He may have had an awesome experience at a UC, but he had to weigh all the pros and cons, taking into consideration his personality. At 18 he was not relishing fighting his way through a huge bureaucracy to get classes and attention. I’m not saying UCs are not a good choice, I’m just saying that for some there are valid reasons for not attending.</p>
<h1>I think what bothered her most when I posted “nobody looked like her”, is that she is very fair skinned and she doesn’t always “dress” in a conventional manner-likes to be goofy at times.</h1>
<p>???</p>
<p>There aren’t many fair-skinned people at UCs? Really? </p>
<p>As for how people dress…the UCs tend to have a variety of “looks” from preppy to hippie to “just woke up and this is what I slept in” looks.</p>
<p>But…in the end, your budget may provide more options and that’s great. If she’s accepted to some OOS schools that she likes and you can afford them, then why not go?</p>
<p>What are the OOS schools? Has she visited them?</p>
<p>To respond to your thread title I’ll go out on a limb and be direct with an opinion - </p>
<p>** Yes, I think it’s wrong to discourage her from attending a UC. </p>
<p>Note the wording. If you ‘discourage her’ from attending then you’re likely talking them down, knocking them, trying to come up with reasons why they’re a poor choice for her. Maybe you’re doing this and maybe not. I think at this point, unless you have a major reason why you think she absolutely shouldn’t attend a UC, and I can’t think of what that could possibly be, you should be careful in this area since if she starts to actually want to go to one, or if it ends up being your best option financially, she may end up with a chip on her shoulder if she ends up going to one or thinking that ‘you’ have a problem with her choice - i.e. that she’s somehow not living up to what you want her to do.</p>
<p>I think at this point the most sensible thing to do is to explore the various options including the UCs, privates, and I suppose an OOS public although that makes no sense to me unless it’s a special program not offered at a UC. I think it’s fine to discourage her from any Uni that’s clearly not a reasonable match for her on the academic level or that ends up to be financially unfeasible but if you do that then make it clear what the reason for the discouragement is and make it substantive - not something like whether she thinks she can fit in if she’s fair skinned and quirky (I guarantee she wouldn’t be the only one in that category).</p>
<p>I think she’ll have a tough time finding an OOS public option that’s as good as the UC option. There are many people in other states who WISH they could go to a UC without being OOS.</p>
<p>See if she can head over to UCSD around noon on a weekday and wander around. Go to the bookstore and wander around and go grab something to eat at the Price Center and eat the lunch at one of the outside tables and observe people. If you pay attention you’ll see a variety of people - many races and ethnicities, many styles of dress, different economic backgrounds, etc. There’s a wider variety in these areas, and importantly, larger numbers of them, than at small colleges.</p>
<p>One common thread among these students is that they all performed very well in HS in order to be offered admission in the first place. The same is true with UCLA, UCB and other UCs.</p>
<p>I had to chuckle at this, too. While I understand our daughter’s desires to find like-minded people, one of the things our kids learn in college is that they can find like-minded people who may all dress differently, from the very conservative dresser to the punk. It’s what’s in the head, not on the head, that counts. Many college students like to display their individuality in their dress, but that’s just it–dress.</p>
<p>If the choices are a UC or an out-of-state public, it really does depend on the schools in question. Schools like Michigan, Illinois, UVA, are all excellent choices and might even be better for a particular student. All public schools are somewhat bureaucratic relative to smaller LACs, of course, but it doesn’t sound like that is an option she is considering. If your daughter is eligible for the honors program with Regents at one of the UCs, I would seriously consider it. If UCSD is too blond and conventional for her, she could look into Berkeley or Davis. I hope she applied to a wide variety so she has some choices.</p>