Is Ivy League hype overblown?

College Search & Selection
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<p>"To clarify my earlier point, there are some banks that only recruit out of the ivy league, and do not recruit at all at other similarly ranked schools. That is where I see the whole prestige of the ivy league coming into play big time. Also, law schools love Ivy grads."</p>

<p>Oh puh-lease. People get into law school every darn day going to Whatever State Flagship, and go on and become lawyers and lead nice lives.</p>

<p>The Ivies (and peer colleges) are prestigious for certain majors / areas, e.g., Wall Street finance. Other colleges are prestigious for other majors / areas., e.g., the University of Montana for environmental biology and wildlife sciences. It's amusing, then, that somehow the Ivies are "more prestigious overall" -- as if Wall Street finance is a "better" field than environmental biology.</p>

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<p>Today's college applicants are fortunate to have such a large number of high quality schools to choose from; including, but limitied to, the ivies.</p>

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<p>"It's a sports league people, it just so happens that every school in the league has good academics. That's it."</p>

<p>Not really. Yes, the eight schools came together as a sports conference 50-something years ago, but the seven schools other than Cornell have been closely affiliated for hundreds of years. Most sports conferences consist of schools that went looking for athletic opponents - this one consists of schools that were long-time peers before they adopted a name for their conference. There are only seven private colleges and universities in the country that were around during colonial times - those seven.</p>

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<p>Those are terrible schools. The OP must be an idiot.</p>

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<p>I'd say no, it isn't overblown--as long as you realize that there are other places that are in the same league, figuratively. </p>

<p>The endless denigration of the Ivy League that goes on here is as ridiculous as the ivy-or-bust mentality of others.</p>

<p>[something strange happened to this post!]</p>

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<p>I'm not denigrating the Ivy Leagues. They are, indeed, All That. So are a bunch of other schools.</p>

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<p>Imagine Lebron James playing at the top of his game for 300 years. That's the Ivy League.</p>

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<p>There's no question all the Ivies are outstanding institutions. HYP along with MIT, Stanford, and within a narrower set of specialties Caltech, are probably the best there is. Wharton is outstanding in finance. After that the Ivies are extremely good schools but comparable to some non-Ivies like Chicago, possibly Duke, and for the quality of the educational experience also comparable to top tier LACs like Swarthmore, Williams, or Amherst. Overblown? Yes, if you're just measuring the quality of the education, I do think their reputation is overblown relative to that of other outstanding institutions which provide a comparable education but don't get nearly as much attention. If you're after prestige for the sake of prestige or for an intangible incremental edge it may possibly get you somewhere along the way, then no, their reputation is not overblown. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy; they have prestige because people think they have prestige, out of proportion to any actual incremental difference in educational quality. And that added increment of prestige in turn helps open doors, which in turn lends credence to widespread popular belief in their prestige Personally I'm not much impressed by that kind of prestige; I'll go for straight educatinoal quality every time. But if you value that additional increment of prestige for its own sake and/or instrumentally as something you think you'll need to help you achieve your life's goals, then by all means the Ivies are the way to go. Of course, a ton of other people are thinking the same way; that's what prestige is all about.</p>

<p>I'm also not impressed by the argument that Wall Street hires heavily out of the Ivies. That's so last year's news. With Manhattan littered with the ruins of hundreds of formerly high-flying financial institutions and the remains of thousands of I-banking careers just now, anyone who thinks an Ivy education is going to open doors to a lucrative careeer on Wall Street anytime soon is a fool. Maybe a government job in a financial regulatory agency. I hear that's a growth sector.</p>

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<p>I would agree that HYP and the rest of the Ivies (except Cornell because it is part state, part private university) have more prestige than any other schools (except Stanford, Caltech, MIT and a few others). That prestige was gained over a long period of time because the elite (mainly the wealthy (through inherited wealth)) and their children were educated there and the elite decide which institutions have prestige. As for quality of educational experience, there are many other colleges that are better than most if not all of the Ivies. Son went to Emory and had a fabulous intellectual (and social) experience: got to know about 7 professors well, 4 very well and 2 (including thesis advisor) became his good friends and champions. He received a great deal of personal attention. I hear that this type of experience is rare at Harvard. Many other schools considered 1-2 tiers below the Ivies do offer the type of experience that my son had. It is important to check the quality of colleges in the field(s) in which your child is interested. Just because a college is a "great school", it does not follow that all departments are great. Finally, the Ivy League school on your resume may get you the first, second and possibly third job, but in the world today you must produce regardless of your credentials. I have known many Harvard and other Ivy League grads who could not perform in the real world. I will take a very bright kid (from state U. or a 2d-3rd tier private school) with common sense and a great work ethic over a genius who cannot think practically or who thinks that he need not work hard.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Ok, then answer this, would u pick nyu or cornell with the same major and about the same financial aid package?

[/quote]

That would depend on whether one wants an urban or suburban(/rural) environment. A student used to the hustle and bustle of large cities could very well be miserable at Cornell. Prestige won't keep you warm in Ithaca. ;)</p>

<p>I wouldn't say the HYPe (I couldn't resist) about the Ivies is necessarily overblown. They're eight of the best universities in the country -- nothing more, nothing less. If people want to attend them and genuinely think they'd be happy there, more power to them. There are two main problems with Ivy mania:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>They somtimes get lumped together as if they're similar institutions, whereas in reality a school like Penn has more in common with Duke than with Brown or Princeton.</p></li>
<li><p>People sometimes confuse being "eight of the best" with "the best eight" (usually with the obligatory S/M tack-on).</p></li>
</ol>

<p>

Well, on CC...</p>

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<p>Lol, I laugh at how many people on this website know nothing about Cornell (JIDad) and its usually parents, haha, stop living vicariously through your teenagers, seriously.</p>

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<p>seriously, stop hating on Cornell. The Ivies are a brand name though...</p>

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<p>Oh. This thread again. Sigh.</p>

<p>Its an irrelevant question if you ask me. If you applied and get in and can afford it, then go. If you didnt get in, then its totally irrelevant and move on. If are thinking of applying and have the stats to get in, I hope you do. If you have a special hook, URM, athletic recruit, or live in Cheyenne Wyoming you stand a better chance than most. </p>

<p>Otherwise, obsessing about it is pointless and not helpful to you or anyone around you.</p>

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<p>Yeah I agree, as an Ivy Leager I have to admit the brand name is the main draw, lets face it. I agree pnl09, how come Cornell is always beat up on. They're seriously going to have around an 18-19% acceptance rate this year and are a Top 15 school and USNWR has them (gasp!) ranked ahead of Brown (much love Brown, I'm just saying you guys never get hated on like us). Its all-private too, some colleges receive some state funds, they're not public schools as they all fall under Cornell University's jurisdiction.</p>

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<p>As Hawkette has pointed out, prestige can depend on regionalism. Brown may not be as good as UCLA out west. Columbia may not be as good as Duke or William & Mary down South. Same thing for Northwestern, Notre Dame around Chicago or Indianapolis. Prestige is perception and that varies throughout the country. Probably the worst reason to pick a school.</p>

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<p>Cornell is always getting bagged on. WHY? So WHAT if it's part state-school? Does that make it any less prestigious? Berkeley is ALL state-school and it is EASILY more prestigious than Brown, Princeton, Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell, and possibly Columbia at the Graduate GLOBAL level. </p>

<p>Anyways, prestige is very hard to grasp, as you have all said.</p>

<p>In terms of prestige, look at the Academic Peer Review from USNWR as probably the best gauge of prestige in Academia:</p>

<p>Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford
then MIT, Berkeley
then Caltech,
then Cornell, Columbia, Johns Hopkins, U of Chicago
UPenn
Duke
ETC.</p>

<p>^ i think this is about right.</p>

<p>anyways, the way ACADEMIA (you know...the actual EDUCATED and EXPERIENCED ones) see it, schools like Penn, Dartmouth, and Brown lack in undergraduate prestige compared to places like Duke, JHU, UChicago, MIT, Stanford, Caltech, etc. And yes, Penn, Dartmouth and Brown are Ivy league. Meanwhile, Columbia and Cornell are equivalent, roughly, in undergraduate prestige to JHU and UChicago.</p>

<p>That speaks A LOT for non-ivies out there.</p>

<p>edit: ok, i think i got the top few wrong, but overall, you get the gist of my argument here</p>

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<p>Let's face it, we all know that Cornell is at the bottom of the Ivy League and often the choice of those who want Ivy but can't get in anywhere else. Not saying that specifically about anybody here, just that it happens quite often. I'd put Chicago, Duke, Georgetown, WUSTL, Northwestern, etc all ahead of Cornell. People hate on Cornell for a reason.</p>

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<p>

Stupidity?</p>

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<p>You honestly believe that Wustl has a better reputation than Cornell?</p>

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<p>Absolutely. Not to the random guy on the street, but to grad school, yes.</p>