Is Michigan weak in any way?

<p>Instructional quality is a constant accross most campuses. You have great teachers, horrible teachers and regular teachers on any campus. Michigan is no better or worse than any other school in that regard. But I definitely agree that like any university, Michigan has a lot of room to improve on this front.</p>

<p>I concur on the housing situation. Moved my daughter into South Quad triple last Friday. Found out that the double rooms are all bigger than her triple. Luckily a few other students were there to help move the furniture around to make the room functional. We made one set of bunk beds and left one set of furniture configured in a loft. A small TV did actually fit in on top of a bookshelf. My daughter is a freshman and her room is in a wing of Hunt House that is all single rooms with upperclassmen except for the other triple across the hall. I am really disappointed in the Housing office at U of M. I really don't think they care about what will work best for new students in a new situation. They see them all as just bodies and dollars. Luckily my daughter has made a number of friends in the other wings of the floor and on other floors.</p>

<p>I lived in an economy triple my freshman year in South Quad (Taylor). It was very doable. Remember that you get what you pay for (and vice versa). An economy triple is around $6,200 while a standard double is around $7,900 (per year). So you get less space but pay less, too. It might turn out to be a significant difference, especially if the student is the one paying for school. If your daughter likes the other two people enough, things should work out.</p>

<p>redhare, what goblue and I are talking about are not "economy triples", they are "standard triples" and are billed as standard triples. I get your point, but usually when you "get what you pay for", you are making a choice - and there was no choice here. DS requested a double and was put in a triple.</p>

<p>Having said all that, I too think it will work out.</p>

<p>Does this have anything to do with the fact that they overadmit again. I understand that we have nearly 6,000 freshmen coming again(?) so housing has to scramble to fit everyone in.</p>

<p>I certainly have to come to believe that is one factor. Another is that they have not built a new dorm since 1968. And lastly, they have taken one dorm, Morsher-Jordan, out of service for remodelling without having a new dorm online to replace it.</p>

<p>I discussed the situation with the University Housing personnel and they insist that the triples in South Quad have been classified as regular triples not economy triples because they have 3 closets - although they admit that they are actually smaller than some economy triples in other buildings and definitely smaller than most doubles. Besides that, the fact is that the people in the University Housing Office initially told parents that triples are bigger than doubles and this is clearly not true for South Quad. The freshmen in South Quad are generally honors students, which in many schools, earns them preferential housing. At U of M South Quad might have a preferred location but putting these kids in these small rooms almost totally negates the advantage of the location. My son lived in Markley as a freshman and had much more space in a double. The distance did not make things that much more inconvenient for him. The condition of the dorms plus his dislike of the food did, however, cause him to move off campus after freshman year. If I had known that there was a chance that my daughter would get in one of these substandard triples I would have encouraged her to pass on South Quad and live somewher else with the majority of freshmen. Besides the small room, the rest of her hall (except for the triple with three freshmen squeezed in across the hall) is all single rooms with upperclassmen so its not the best freshmen experience in that respect either. I don't know what these Housing people are thinking but I am not impressed. Luckily she has made friends who live on other floors and in other dorms and is having a great time - now I am just hoping that she settles down by the time classes start on Tuesday !</p>

<p>It's got to be the Mosher-Jordan issue. Housing had enough spaces for this fall. As I understand it, they could have accommodated an even larger class. However, that stance doesn't at all mesh with their practice of putting people in triples they didn't ask for. Come to think of it, that doesn't make sense to me at all.</p>

<p>Welcome to Michigan, where logic does not always rule the day.</p>

<p>Hoedown, that sure isn't how it seems at South Quad. On my daughter's floor, they have taken over the study room at the end of the hall and put a bunch of boys in it - on a girl's hall. Housing seems to be really reaching for space.</p>

<p>Where'd you get those stats?</p>

<p>Appalachian State????</p>

<p>The lounges converted into quads really aren't on the girls half. Each half of a floor is broken down into two "L's" that meet at the elevators. The L containing the main hallway usually has more rooms, and usually consists of doubles and triple. The other L only has two triples, about 6 singles, and then the rest are doubles, so they by far have fewer residents (this is reflected by number of showers/urinals in the corresponding bathrooms). So just because of this disparity in numbers, it would make sense to classify that converted quad as being part of the smaller L. Kind of balances out how many people each RA needs to know instead of making the gap worse.</p>

<p>I see your point. What doesn't make sense to me is taking the lounge over in the first place. Common spaces like lounges and study rooms are important both for the collegiality of the floors and the actual ability to study. Taking them over and renting them as dorm rooms diminishes the value to all the residents. It would not be acceptable in any other rental situation, but the unversity gets away with it because the realm of the housing office is a dictatorship.</p>

<p>The hall lounges aren't as important for studying since the 9th floor of South Quad is basically a giant study center.</p>

<p>Hey Alexandre, im currently a student at Michigan right now, and i just feel like if it wasnt for the football team, there would be no pride in the school. I dont know many of our school's traditions, I feel like the class size is too large, and that the administration does not do its job in accomodating the students. Whats more is that Michigan's rank has fallen once again in USNWR's annual rankings. Our alumni donation rate is one of the lowest in the country. Why is this? For a "top tier" school like Michigan it doesnt seem like our students are very well taken care of, otherwise the alumni would express more satisfaction. The incoming freshman class is too large, and this cuts down the funds that can be used to make students' lives better. The students here, atleast myself, dont seem to know that they go to a great school and as a result, there is no pride in the school on campus. Speaking from LSA's point of view, the students are not given the perks that engineers, b-school students, or even music school students have. Students at a good school should be treated by their school well. Ive noticed that you have significant pride in Michigan. Maybe you could shed some light on all this for me, and give me a reason to be proud? i dont mean to sound caustic in this post, these issues have been bothering me for a while.</p>

<p>Tank, the majority of Michigan students and alums take more pride in their school's academic traditions than its athletic traditions. Simply put, no matter how great Michigan's athletic accomplishments are, its academic stature remains a notch above. Many Michigan students and alums also take pride in the history of the university and in the town of Ann Arbor. In fact, a great many students and alums couldn't care less about Michigan athletics. They care a lot more about the fact that Michigan has pioneered university education for over 150 years or that Michigan consistantly ranks among the top 10 in almost every single field of study imaginable or that Ann Arbor is one of the very best cities to live in. There are very few academics, intellectuals or corporate recruiters who would agree with Michigan's USNWR ranking. Most would rank Michigan among the top 10 or top 15.</p>

<p>And don't let the USNWR ranking fool you. Michigan has been ranked between #21 and #25 for the last 17 years. That is not about to change. Cal and UVa have also been ranked between #20 and #25 during that period. State schools just don't do well in the USNWR "system". </p>

<p>Class size at Michigan is indeed large, but only at the intro levels. That is true at most major research universities. Intro level classes at other elite universities like Cal, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, Northwestern and Stanford are also large.And the administration at those schools is generally not geared to cater to undergraduate students, hence the term "research university". Let us not kid ourselves Tank, a school that has more than 5,000 graduate students and more than 10,000 total students is not going to give personalized attention to its students.</p>

<p>As for alumni donations, don't take the low donation rate too seriously. When Michigan alums give, they give BIG! But do not compare Michigan's alumni donation rates to those of its much smaller private peers. For one thing, private universities have been aggressively pursuing their alums for donations since the 19th century. Michigan and other publics have only done so since the 1960s. Secondly, public schools are limited in how aggressively they can pursue their alums, private universities aren't. Even if public universities could pursue their alums as aggressively as private universities, their alumni populations are so large, chances, are, a significantly smaller percentage of the total alumni population would be reached. If you look at alumni donation rates, you will see that in most cases, they are a function of alumni size. Finally, private universities have also catered to legacies for a very long time. Pubics have not done so...not to the same extent anyway. It is much easier to ask a third or fourth generation alum for money when her/his parents and grandparents have been donating money to the school.</p>

<p>In short Tank, you probably did not pick the right school. It seems like you would have been more content at a LAC.</p>

<p>i agree with alexandre. im a sophomore at michigan this year and i love it here. sure its a big school, but if you put yourself out there and get involved you meet plenty of people. in fact i dont go a day where i dont see people i know on the street, in class, or on the diag. so tank, just give it some time, try to join some clubs and i guarantee you will find the michigan spirit. on a side note, alexandre what year did you graduate and what are you doing now? just out of curiousity...</p>

<p>Tank:</p>

<p>This is the first post where I think Alexandre is too negative.</p>

<p>By class size, It sounds like you mean the size of your class (freshman, sophmore, etc) rather than the size of specific courses.</p>

<p>Michigan is big and there is really not a lot of personal attention unless you are self motivated and seek it out. However, as a major research university with outstanding graduate programs, there are plenty of resources that are open to whomever is interested.</p>

<p>One example is the Hopwood Program <a href="http://www.lsa.umich.edu/english/hopwood/default.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.lsa.umich.edu/english/hopwood/default.asp&lt;/a> . It has an amazing history and tradition. <a href="http://www.umich.edu/pres/speeches/060421hopwood.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.umich.edu/pres/speeches/060421hopwood.html&lt;/a> </p>

<p>I am simply listing this as an example. There are a number of programs and resources in other fields. </p>

<p>Most of what's great tends to be specialized, so there is less of a sense of a shared undergraduate experience then some smaller LAC schools. I hope you can find what you are looking for. Best of luck.</p>

<p>Inspirdbyacause, I was at Michigan from 1992-1996. I am now an HR Director at a private equity firm in Dubai. More specifically, I support the firm's luxury yacht subsidiary, which represents the Benetti, Azimut, Riviera and Atlantis brands in the Middle East region. It is a difficult life I lead! hehe!!!</p>

<p>LuxArtesVeritas, I was not trying to be negative, but one does not attend a major research university for the sake of receiving individualized attention. That's like complaining that Alaska is too cold or Hawaii too "beachy"! Students who attend major research universities generally accept that the endless opportunities that come with such institutions require a great deal of self-initiative and independence.</p>

<p>The reason why Michigan is ranked so low in "alumni giving" (17% and 83th) is the way USNWR defines the term.</p>

<p>"Alumni giving. The average percentage of undergraduate alumni of record who donated money to the college or university. Alumni of record are former full- or part-time students who received an undergraduate degree and for whom the college or university has a current address."</p>

<p>USNWR doesn't take into consideration the size of the gift or the total amount of alumni donations. That is, an alum donating $10M is counted the same as one donating $10. There is no way a university ranked 8th in endowment should be ranked 83th in alumni giving.</p>

<p>It is also questionable how you define "alumni with a current address". I don't know how Michigan verifies/reports these data to USNWR. But if it is anywhere near the way the Alumni Association reports them, Michigan would have way over-estimated that number. For example, according to AA's InCircle, there are more than 800 alumni in the city where I live. However, we are never able to contact more than 100, as most of these people are not registered members of the local alumni chapter. It is reasonable to suspect that the majority of these addresses are not "current". In fact, several of my friends who are on the list have never returned to this city after they left school more than 30 years ago. It may be more fair if we count only the alum who are registered members of the local/global alumni association.</p>