<p>You paid how much per year total cost at mich alexandre?</p>
<p>College back in my day cost $30,000/year my first year (1992) and $34,000k my last year (1996). All is relative of course, and colleges have more than kept up with inflation over the years, but the private schools that I was considering would have cost me slightly more, and they were not better.</p>
<p>OOS, too. I think U Mich has been worth the cost so far (no aid, just loans). It was about the same price with aid to privates for my D and I can’t imagine that she would have had the same opportunities or accomplished as much as she has her freshman year at those colleges. Yes, she could have gone tuition free plus scholarship in-state to good schools…but they didn’t really have the programs that she wanted.</p>
<p>I see college as an investment. It depends on your goals and what end result you want if the cost is worth it. I’m just tired of seeing everyone complain about the cost of U Mich on this board. When she applied, we knew the prospects of aid were dim and were never led on by anyone otherwise. I don’t know why everyone just expects their college education to be handed to them on a silver platter. My H and I had to work for our tuition and it took us years to pay back the loans. But it was worth it and I see it the same way for my D. Just hopefully, we’ll be able to pay back those loans for her!</p>
<p>I know the admissions office is getting a lot of crap lately, but in my personal experience, they’ve been exceptional. I love the Live Help function, and the staff has been nothing but prompt and friendly in answering any questions. Made me love UMich even more :)</p>
<p>ETA: And the alumni system is fantastic. I’ve never seen so many alumni still passionate about their college. And having the Alexandre call on the phone in real life was pretty surreal haha.</p>
<p>…HUMILITY.</p>
<p>Michigan undergrad is weak in the humility and self-awareness department. In fact they’re probably second to last, just behind Notre Dame students. </p>
<p>Let’s get some things straight: Michigan is a very good research university. And UM students should be very proud of attending there (I spent 3 years in Ann Arbor, and it’s a great place to go to school). If money were an object and I actually lived in Michigan, I would practically force my kid to go there. </p>
<p>But you are not the best school in world. You are the not best school in the country. Heck, you are not even the best school in your region. Nor are you the best public school. </p>
<p>Y’all need to get a little perspective.</p>
<p>Humility is not a problem at Michigan. The students tend to be more humble that students at other top 20 universities. I think you are confusing school pride and confidence with arrogance.There is a lot of school spirit and pride, but that does not mean that students are individually arrogant.</p>
<p>“But you are not the best school in world.”</p>
<p>Agreed, nobody said we were.</p>
<p>“You are the not best school in the country.”</p>
<p>Again, nobody said we were.</p>
<p>“Heck, you are not even the best school in your region.”</p>
<p>That is actually debatable, Chicago, Michigan and Northwestern are generally considered the top 3 schools in the Midwest…academically speaking that is.</p>
<p>“Nor are you the best public school.”</p>
<p>Agreed, but we among the top 2 or 3 public schools.</p>
<p>“Humility is not a problem at Michigan. The students tend to be more humble that students at other top 20 universities. I think you are confusing school pride and confidence with arrogance.There is a lot of school spirit and pride, but that does not mean that students are individually arrogant.”</p>
<p>I’m not confusing anything. You cross the line from pride/confidence to arrogance as soon as you start threads like “Is Michigan weak in any way?” Just re-read the posts on this thread and tell me again that they don’t represent the very definition of arrogance: “an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions.”</p>
<p>Furthermore, I spent three years at the University of Michigan. I don’t need someone else telling me whether or not the students are humble. On the whole, they are not. I can’t tell you the number of times I had to listen to UMers talk, not only about how great their school is, but how great others think their school is. </p>
<p>And for the record, there is nothing debatable about whether Michigan is the best school in the Midwest. It is not. The top three schools in the Midwest are Chicago, Northwestern and WashU. Academically speaking, no reasonable person places Michigan in the same league as Chicago.</p>
<p>Maverick, we posted this thread on the Michigan forum. There is nothing wrong with that. We can toot out own horn here. We don’t get in the way and we don’t bother anybody. And criticism has been welcomed. </p>
<p>“And for the record, there is nothing debatable about whether Michigan is the best school in the Midwest. It is not. The top three schools in the Midwest are Chicago, Northwestern and WashU. Academically speaking, no reasonable person places Michigan in the same league as Chicago.”</p>
<p>According to the peer assessment score (the opnion of university presidents and deans of admissions), Michigan is #2 in the midwest:</p>
<p>Chicago: 4.6/5.0
Michigan: 4.4/5.0
Northwestern: 4.3/5.0
Washington U. 4.1/5.0</p>
<p>I guess university presidents and deans of admissions are unreasonable eh? Yes, the collective opinion of 2,000 highly ranked university representatives means nothing. They are clueless and out of touch. But you are spot on. </p>
<p>And Gerhard Casper, Yale-educated scholar and Stanford president from 1990-2000 had this to say about Michigan:</p>
<p>“I am extremely skeptical that the quality of a university - any more than the quality of a magazine - can be measured statistically. However, even if it can, the producers of the U.S. News rankings remain far from discovering the method. Let me offer as prima facie evidence two great public universities: the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor and the University of California-Berkeley. These clearly are among the very best universities in America - one could make a strong argument for either in the top half-dozen. Yet, in the last three years, the U.S. News formula has assigned them ranks that lead many readers to infer that they are second rate: Michigan 21-24-24, and Berkeley 23-26-27”</p>
<p>[Criticism</a> of College Rankings - September 23, 1996](<a href=“http://www.stanford.edu/dept/pres-provost/president/speeches/961206gcfallow.html]Criticism”>Criticism of College Rankings - September 23, 1996)</p>
<p>I guess Gerhard Casper is unreasonable too. </p>
<p>There is very little question as to whether or not Michigan is one of the top 3 universities in the Midwest…in the academic world anyway.</p>
<p>And do yourself a favor Maverick, don’t claim to be a Michigan alum. You may be one, but you certainly aren’t convincing.</p>
<p>I’m not surprised, but nothing you cited contradicts anything I said. Casper said UM is undervalued in the rankings, which it is. He did NOT say, however, that it is better than Chicago, Northwestern or WashU. The fact is, my statement about the top three schools in the midwest was purely a reference to the overall USNews rankings, not just one category within it. The fact is, although I feel the rankings are stupid and misguided, your failure to even mention WashU in your list of the obvious and indisputable top three schools in the midwest was irritating.</p>
<p>As for my comment about academics, read more closely: I said “no reasonable person places Michigan in the same league as Chicago.” According to the peer assessment scores you provided, those university presidents are not unreasonable because they agree with my proposition. </p>
<p>Furthermore, the peer assessment score does not reflect those persons’ opinions on the academic experience of undergraduates. I also do not put much weight into what university administrators (as opposed to the professors at large) think. </p>
<p>But since you brought it up, your figures support my proposition about Michigan vis-a-vis Chicago, as do other such “peer review”-based rankings.</p>
<p>[QS</a> Top Universities: University rankings by indicator - peer review](<a href=“http://www.topuniversities.com/worlduniversityrankings/results/2008/indicators/academic_peer_review/]QS”>http://www.topuniversities.com/worlduniversityrankings/results/2008/indicators/academic_peer_review/)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.arwu.org/rank/2007/ARWU2007_Top100.htm[/url]”>http://www.arwu.org/rank/2007/ARWU2007_Top100.htm</a></p>
<p>Let’s be clear about this.</p>
<p>I said, “Heck, you are not even the best school in your region.”</p>
<p>And you replied, “That is actually debatable.” </p>
<p>The fact is, nothing you have cited or could cite would ever prove that Michigan is a better school academically than Chicago. Period. Chicago’s contributions to academia far overshadow Michigan’s. Feel free to argue whatever you want about overall college experience, how important it is not to see crime or attend a football game, etc. But the minute you, as have most Michigan alums I’ve known before you, claim that its clearly the best school in the Midwest, you lose all credibility.</p>
<p>“The fact is, although I feel the rankings are stupid and misguided, your failure to even mention WashU in your list of the obvious and indisputable top three schools in the midwest was irritating.”</p>
<p>Lots of people don’t consider Missouri to be part of the Midwest. Even if you did, I still wouldn’t put it with Chicago/Michigan (maybe Northwestern).</p>
<p>are there seriously people not at usnews who consider washu on par with northwestern, chicago, or michigan?</p>
<p>this is news to me.</p>
<p>maverick, when did anybody here say that Michigan is “clearly the best school in the Midwest”? I have known hundreds of Michigan students and alums, and none have ever made such a claim. Do we believe that Michigan is arguably #1 in the Midwest? Perhaps (although admittedly that honor does go to Chicago). Do we believe that Michigan belongs among the top 3 universities in the Midwest? Most likely. Among the top 5 most? Most definitely… but nobody claimed it was the clear #1. In fact, it is you who claimed that “no reasonable person would place Michigan in the same league as Chicago”. I don’t know Maverick, 4.6/5.0 and 4.4 out of 5.0 seem like the same league to me. Do you believe that Yale is not in the same league as Harvard just because Harvard is rated marginally higher? Do you believe that Chicago is not in the same league as Cal or Princeton just because it has a slightly lower rating according to academics? If you do, by that reckoning, you also don’t believe that Northwestern and Wash U are in the same league as Michigan. And the two links you provided further emphasize my contention that Michigan is indeed one of the top 2 or 3 universities in the Midwest. One of the links gives Chicago a rating of 100 and Michigan a rating of 99. Again, seems like the same league to me. </p>
<p>I personally don’t care about the USNWR ranking. It is a load of BS, designed to sell magazines. 25% of the USNWR depends entirely on that one publication (the US College rankings edition). I do, however, care about what leading intellectuals think. According to most leading academics, Michigan is always ranked among the top 3 in the Midwest. The USNWR PA has always ranked Michigan among the top 2 universities the Midwest…and I have seen the PA rate Michigan at #1 in the Midwest several times in the past, but not in the last 6-7 years. Of the two links you provided above, one ranks Michigan at #2 and the other at #3 in the midwest. </p>
<p>And I still don’t see how this thread, located in the Michigan forum for the viewing pleasure of Michigan students, alums and prospects, constitutes and act of “arrogance”. Confidence and school pride, obviously…but not arrorance.</p>
<p>The whole title of this thread is, “Is Michigan weak in any way?” Academically it certainly is not. The Michigan faithful defend their university so vehemently simply because there are those on CC who portray it to be something less than excellent as an overall university.</p>
<p>Hehe! …Somehow I like that QS ranking, Maverick. ;)</p>
<p>As exemplified this year, their ADMISSIONS OFFICE performance leaves MUCH to be desired.</p>
<p>It seems to be true nottylotty. I hope people like Alexandre can address this issue with the university.</p>
<p>I plan on majoring in Political Science or Public Policy to go to law school, or work for the governement… </p>
<ol>
<li><p>How is the department? will i get a good education in this major?</p></li>
<li><p>will michigan prepare me well for getting a government internship in DC as opposed to University of Maryland?</p></li>
<li><p>Is it true that if you go to michigan undergrad you have a greater chance getting into Michigan Law School?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>thanks for the help!</p>
<p>“1. How is the department? will i get a good education in this major?”</p>
<p>Michigan’s Political Science department is one of the top 2 or 3 in the nation. However, like most top ranked Political Science at most elite universities, hundreds of undergraduate students graduate with degrees in Poli Sci each year. That means relatively large classes and a degree of self-reliance to succeed. If you are willing to put up with large classes and with sharing your professors with the World that depends on them, then I would say the education in Poli Sci you can get at Michigan is second to none.</p>
<p>“2. will michigan prepare me well for getting a government internship in DC as opposed to University of Maryland?”</p>
<p>Definitely! Michigan is #1 in American Politics. Every presidential administration (including the current one) enlists the help of several Michigan professors as consultants. Michigan has one of the strongest connections to the DC political scene and its reputation there is truly excellent. I can only think of a couple of schools that can beat Michigan in the internship front; Georgetown, Harvard, Princeton and perhaps GWU.</p>
<p>“3. Is it true that if you go to michigan undergrad you have a greater chance getting into Michigan Law School?”</p>
<p>Yes, that is obviously the case. Not just with Michigan and not just the Law school. Every major Law school, Medical School and MBA program will give preference to their own undergrads. Of course, the fact that Michigan has elite programs in those three major professional programs definitely make it an appealing place for pre-professionals to get their undergraduate degree there…or at any other university with elite professional programs.</p>
<p>First of all, PoliSci is awesome it Michigan. The professors are fantastic (I took two PoliSci courses my freshman year) and you really learn a lot. Yes, a ton of kids major in PoliSci, so if you want to distinguish yourself, you’re going to want to earn a high GPA (obviously).</p>
<p>If you are a Michigan undergrad and have a cumulative GPA of at least 3.8 after your Junior year, you are allowed to apply to Michigan Law without taking the LSAT.</p>
<p>[Wolverine</a> Scholars](<a href=“http://www.law.umich.edu/prospectivestudents/admissions/applyingtomichigan/Pages/WolverineScholars.aspx]Wolverine”>Admissions | University of Michigan Law School)</p>
<p>With that said, I don’t think it’s the norm that Grad schools prefer their own undergrads. I’m not an expert on this topic, but I’ve heard that many Grad schools either have no preference, or prefer kids who did NOT attend undergrad at their own school.</p>
<p>What Michigan is doing with this Wolverine Scholars Program is attempting to boost their average GPA in the Law School rankings. They want to throw in all those 3.8+ averages to increase their 3.65 avg. GPA, without potentially hurting their LSAT score. Actually, if you want to apply through the Wolverine Scholars program, you aren’t even allowed to take the LSAT. If you take the LSAT, you are not allowed to be considered through the Wolverine Scholars Program. You can read more about it if you follow the link above.</p>