Is my brother screwed for grad school?

<p>He's graduating from Purdue this semester as a chemical engineer.. (yes same school and major as me lol) basically I'm sort of worried for him because he's in depression since he really screwed up his first three semesters. I mean really badly. </p>

<p>Internships: He had an internship junior year, did really well.. that's it in terms of work experience. </p>

<p>As for grades..
First semester: - 2.6
Second semester - 2.8
Third semester - 2.3
Fourth semester - 3.8
Fifth semester - 3.9
Sixth semester - 3.9
Seventh semester - 3.8
Eight semester - 3.7</p>

<p>His cumulative GPA is like a 3.3.... (rounded down)</p>

<p>Basically he partied a lot his freshman/sophomore year (hardcore drugs.. glad my parents don't know) and slacked off a lot.. somehow he got really serious after his 2.3 and got really high grades after that. </p>

<p>I'm just hoping the best for him in terms of a job and grad school, because he's in depression right now. His girlfriend broke up with him before graduation, my parents are threatening to not help him if he doesn't get a job, and he knows he screwed up really badly his first few semesters. </p>

<p>What do you guys think.. are his options really limited for grad school? The only thing I'm guessing will help him is that he tried really hard to make up for his crappy grades, he's not the typical indian (5'9'', 190lbs (yes bodybuilder)).., and he's really a well rounded person. </p>

<p>Thanks..</p>

<p>I don't know about Purdue, but graduating with a 3.3 in ChemE is quite impressive (especially with his later semesters). He should be fine.</p>

<p>He should be okay if he can pull off a decent personal statement/GREs that explain his lower grades..and an upward trend is always good....im saying that he has a decent shot at grad school based on my sis...she got into a couple that she applied to with a lower gpa...she had decent gre's and went to umich tho....</p>

<p>Purdue is a really tough school... chemE is ranked in the top 10 here I believe (or very close). </p>

<p>He's more worried about getting a job though since he took so many loans to complete his degree.. I was just thinking about how he said he doesnt stand out from everyone else, because most people networked really well and had more than one internship.. he's afraid he might not get a decent job, or a job at all for that matter.</p>

<p>His in major GPA is probably very strong.</p>

<p>he did extremely well in the upper level classes that pertain to his major and actually matter</p>

<p>grad schools and such love to see that upward trend in grades. plus he graduated in four years, something thats also pretty hard to do with his particular major</p>

<p>Wow, I had a very similar situation. I did terrible freshman year because I was forced to work to pay for a good chunk of my tuition. I ended up working so much that I had absolutely no time for HW and studying. I ended up with a 2.3 over the course of freshman year. I was a 3.7 student in high school so this was very troubling to me. I ended up transferring out of my school (Boston University) to Johnson & Wales University for a year. At JWU, I didn't have to work to help pay for school. Accordingly, my grades shot back up to the 3.7-3.9 range just like the kid mentioned in the original post. Luckily for me, my financial situation changed over the course of my year at JWU and I was able to go back to Boston University. I am back here now and have A's in everything. However my collective GPA is very low because freshman year drags everything down. And in addition, my 3.8 from JWU doesn't factor into my GPA from BU. However, most acadmic and career advisors here at BU told me it won't be a problem as long as I explain why that freshman year was a complete anamole of my record and shouldn't actually be factored in when assessing my college performance. Do you guys think it will work against me? I assume I have a fairly understandable explanation anyway.</p>

<p>He will be just fine. The last two years and the major itself count the most.</p>

<p>i wouldnt guarantee a spot in a top 5 or 10 program, but with good tests, recs, etc, he should be getting into at least one REALLY strong program.</p>

<p>Ok wow I just talked to him and he said he didn't get a 2.3 his second semester.. he got this:</p>

<p>Semester 3
Calculus III - B
Material/Energy Balances - C
Organic Chemistry 1 - F
Organic Chemistry Lab 1 - F
Microeconomics - C
Electricity & Magnetism - W
GPA - 1.7</p>

<p>he really ****ed up that semester.</p>

<p>I will tell you nothing more impresses admission officers if they see that you struggled in the beginning but didn't give up in times of despair and pulled yourself together. There's a lot that colleges look for--especially grad school admissions people that are more important than grades. They are looking at a person's character and whether that person's character is give him a great chance of succeeding. I really am impressed that after your brother did so horrible during his first few semesters that he was able to pick himself up by the bootstraps and march forward. If your brother is still depressed, please have him read these posts because what everyone is saying is straight on. Man, and when you told me that he did EVEN worse in this 2nd semester than what you indicated--it made me respect your brother even more simply because a person with those grades COULD NEVER BE EXPECTED to earn the later grades that he did. You want to SURPRISE those admission officers and I guarantee it that THEY WILL BE SURPRISED but in a VERY GOOD WAY! Please tell your brother to STOP being depressed because he isn't harming ANYONE except himself and the PEOPLE who care about him. Believe it or not, I was once severely depressed and it nearly killed my life but at the end I saw the light at the end of the tunnel and I started to believe in myself once again. How did I see the light--it was because I realized that the choices of how I WANTED TO FEEL were really up to me. True--your brother is sad and depressed because of his personal and academic life but remember that HE HAS A CHOICE not to feel that way. Please don't let him feel that way any more. What this experience should teach him is HOW TO BE STRONG and please give him confidence that he will be very well. I can say this because I've graduated from college and I understand graduate school a lot and the people where who look at your app AREN'T just looking at your grades! Because so many fewer people entering graduate school than undergrads, they truly get to spend a lot more time looking at your application. Thus, grades aren't the most important--it is your recommendations, your personal statements--all of those things! All these people here are right on when they say he will be fine! Please pass these words on to your brother! I'm Chinese and we have a proverb that says that FAILURE is the MOTHER OF SUCCESS! Failure allows you to change and improve. Failure should be a MOTIVATING FORCE and not a DEPRESSING FORCE for you. Whenever I get an F on anything (an you should know I'm a straight A student) I DON'T sit there and cry and frustrate myself and blame the teacher or BLAME MYSELF. I merely see it as a sign to me that I need to work harder and accept that and F is a motivating thing for me--it makes me want to work harder to be better. You see, for a lot of people getting an "F" or a bad grade in a class is a burden on their backs--it is a rock crushing their hearts and a huge hand pushing them down into the earth. It is overbearing on their emotional and mental health. When someone gets an F- they dig themselves a big black whole and bury themselves in it. Their world has become dark and there's not happiness or light in there. Often, a failure in a class is often seen as a failure in ONE'S life! How I pity those people who see that F as FAILURE and not as a symbol of FORGIVENESS. Yes--FORGIVE yourself for getting that F and then FASCINATE your professor and let them wonder why you got that F by proving them wrong with your capabilities! Please don't let your brother dig himself a big hole. Let this experience be an inspiring experience--a chance for him to be better. In the future, he and ALL OF US will face a lot of "failures" in our lives not that we're not good, but simply because we are all young and because we are young we are inexperienced with life and therefore we are bound to make MISTAKES. And mistakes ARE PART OF LIFE so don't let them BURDEN YOU--let them be an experience that will MOTIVATE YOU to do better, to IMPROVE, to work HARDER. When your brother sees an obstacle ahead--don't let him be depressed again--but merely say to himself--I know this is HARD and I've made some mistakes, but I will use this chance to STRIVE TO BE BETTER and improve. </p>

<p>Below is a response I gave to another person who was doing bad in his math classes and I think a person who had a low GPA--but I told him about my friend Jose. Although this is going to a high school student, it still pertains to your brother. If you're not shocked by how much I wrote already (sorry but I'm an English major!) you can read it. It's a true story and I hope it offers some inspiration for your brother and for you too!</p>

<p>Let me end by telling you a true story. I had a friend who never was good at math yet his passion was to become a doctor because when he was little, he had a major head injury when his mom's car got smashed because of another car accident and a doctor practically saved his life. He wanted to do the same for other people. But, like most Latin Americans out there, he didn't have the money to hire a tutor and because his mom had to work all day (plus she didn't understand English), he didn't get that much support although their relationship is very good. But, he just wanted to be a doctor. So he worked extremely hard at his math, sciences and went to the teacher everyday to get help after school and in the morning came to him again to check how he did. He did this his sophomore, and junior year in high school. At home, he would spend hours and hours doing and redoing math questions and science problems because these were the classes most important to him if he wanted to be a doctor although they were also the ones he struggled the most in. He did all these problems in his notebook to the point that his notebook was wrinkled and ragged from the many times he spent, reviewing the homework to study for tests--(which meant he touched it off and so the notebook looked like someone had beaten it so many times). Although he tried his hardest and he improved greatly--going from literally a F to a B--he still didn't get that A he wanted. When it came for him to apply for college, he was scared because he wanted to go to a top school but he feared that his B/C average would keep him from getting in and in his freshman year, he didn't seek so much help so his grades there are horrible. But I told him that he an an "A+" for his effort although that didn't show up in his grades and that he should not discourage himself and go ahead and apply for the top schools. I even dared him to apply for Harvard and he was really reluctant to do it until I printed the application myself and gave it to him and together we filled it out. When it came for him to ask for recommendations, I told him to ask his math and science teachers because they DID SEE the amount of effort he put in and ALL OF THEM were enthusiatic to write him recommendations. When it came to write that college essay--I further told him to write about his struggles at school--to tell his dreams to these top colleges. Because he was low income, he also was able to get fee waivers to most of the schools. After doing all he could do, he sent out his college applications.</p>

<p>Winter break came and both of us, in need of money went and worked together at the mall. We didn't work in the same store-but luckily we were able to find seasonal jobs in the same mall. We worked full hours during winter break--with no rest. I told him that if he wanted to visit colleges that he got accepted to, he would have to work like 8 hours a day for a good 2 weeks in order to get enough money to visit them. He worked harder than me...taking another job (night shift) in some place in LA--I forgot. Spring semester came and soon we started to get college letters. Many Cal States accepted him but only the lowest UCs and none of the top colleges accepted him. He was devastated. I told him to appeal and I said, no matter what you need to stay strong. The first university I told him to appeal was Harvard because after applying he said that would be the school he wanted to go to the most. I never discouraged him. I told him to get in contact with the Admissions at Harvard and ask them for an interview with one of the admission officers. I told him to bring his notebooks and everything he had--examples of his work, along with everything he had and I told him to fly over there. His parents thought he was crazy and it took a long time to convince them but we eventually did. He told his teachers about it early, got the homework ahead of time, and flew to Massachusetts.</p>

<p>This is what he told me when he came back: He said that when he went to Harvard--he immediately went to see the interviewer and he only asked him for 20 minutes of his time. This interview had already been set. He already filed an appeal a couple of weeks ago and so they knew who he was and had his application in a folder. He told me he was in this room with the interviewer and she said that after looking at his records and his grades and everything, she didn't feel that he was ready to come to this school. She said it would be intense. That was when he told him his life story and how he wanted to be a doctor and all the effort he placed into his math classes. He took out his series of math and science notebooks that have been wrinkled, ragged, torned, but still in tact and showed them to the admissions officer. The notebooks were dated and two years of material along with the notes in his current math class (senior year) was there and he showed her what he did as a sophomore and as a junior and how he improved drastically. He told her that as long as she gave him a chance, even 1 semester, he would be able to show her what he could do.</p>

<p>After talking to her for another 15 minutes, she said she would re-look at his application. She told him he would hear from Harvard again and that was the end of it.</p>

<p>Jose came back to school and continued to work hard. 3 weeks after he went to Harvard, Jose, received a letter in the mail. The letter was thin just like his rejection letter and he was scared. He went into his room and opened it, and the first word he noticed on the paper was "Congratulations!" Miraculously he was accepted and he called me immediately afterwards to tell me. Later that day, we met up with each other and celebrated. His parents were sorta in shock but was greatly happy. Harvard provided full tuition to low income students so he didn't have to pay money to go there. When he went back to high school, he told all of his teachers and they congratulated him.</p>

<p>He worked extra hard and didn't stop with meeting with his teachers for help. That last semester, it was close but he managed to get a B+/A- in his math class and his teacher certainly gave him the A-.</p>

<p>That was 4 years ago. Since he went to Harvard, he worked exceptionally hard in his classes. He managed to keep his grade up to a 3.5 average and graduate. Now, he's in Harvard's medical school (1st year) and doing great. Remember, you need to believe in yourself because anyone can do well as long as they put their hard work to it. Everytime I encourage people, Jose's name always get mentioned. Take care and thanks for reading. I hope it has changed the way to view yourself.</p>

<p>I really appreciate your response, happy camper. </p>

<p>I have a lot of respect for my brother.. he achieved what I hope to achieve - He has amazing grades and is a pretty strong bodybuilder.. I just wish he wasn't in depression right now. </p>

<p>The 2.6, 2.8, and 1.7 make him look really bad.. to employers and graduate schools. :( I hope everything goes well though.</p>

<p>I know my response was really long and so I will break it down for those who even consider reading it. Sorry about the length!</p>

<pre><code> I will tell you nothing more impresses admission officers if they see that you struggled in the beginning but didn't give up in times of despair and pulled yourself together. There's a lot that colleges look for--especially grad school admissions people that are more important than grades. They are looking at a person's character and whether that person's character is give him a great chance of succeeding. I really am impressed that after your brother did so horrible during his first few semesters that he was able to pick himself up by the bootstraps and march forward. If your brother is still depressed, please have him read these posts because what everyone is saying is straight on.

Man, and when you told me that he did EVEN worse in this 2nd semester than what you indicated--it made me respect your brother even more simply because a person with those grades COULD NEVER BE EXPECTED to earn the later grades that he did. You want to SURPRISE those admission officers and I guarantee it that THEY WILL BE SURPRISED but in a VERY GOOD WAY! Please tell your brother to STOP being depressed because he isn't harming ANYONE except himself and the PEOPLE who care about him. 

  Believe it or not, I was once severely depressed and it nearly killed my life but at the end I saw the light at the end of the tunnel and I started to believe in myself once again. How did I see the light--it was because I realized that the choices of how I WANTED TO FEEL were really up to me. True--your brother is sad and depressed because of his personal and academic life but remember that HE HAS A CHOICE not to feel that way. Please don't let him feel that way any more. 

     What this experience should teach him is HOW TO BE STRONG and please give him confidence that he will be very well. I can say this because I've graduated from college and I understand graduate school a lot and the people who look at your application AREN'T just looking at your grades! Because so many fewer people entering graduate school than undergrads, they truly get to spend a lot more time looking at your application. Thus, grades aren't the most important--it is your recommendations, your personal statements--all of those things! All these people here are right on when they say he will be fine! Please pass these words on to your brother! 

     I'm Chinese and we have a proverb that says that FAILURE is the MOTHER OF SUCCESS! Failure allows you to change and improve. Failure should be a MOTIVATING FORCE and not a DEPRESSING FORCE for you or your brother. Whenever I get an F on anything (an you should know I'm a straight A student) I DON'T sit there and cry and frustrate myself and blame the teacher or BLAME MYSELF. I merely see it as a sign to me that I need to work harder and accept that and a F is a motivating thing for me--it makes me want to work harder to be better. 

       You see, for a lot of people getting an "F" or a bad grade in a class is a burden on their backs--it is a rock crushing their hearts and a huge wave of pressure pushing them down into the earth. It is overbearing on their emotional and mental health and when they are depressed, they feel that there's not hope left in the world. When someone gets an F- they dig themselves a big black hole and bury themselves in it. Their world has become dark and there's not happiness or light in there. Often, a failure in a class is often seen as a failure in ONE'S life! 

    How I feel bad/sad for those people who see that [F] as [F]AILURE and not as a symbol of [F]ORGIVENESS. Yes--FORGIVE yourself for getting that F or however many you have and then [F]ASCINATE your professor and let them wonder why you got that F by PROVING THEM WRONG with your capabilities! :) Please don't let your brother dig himself a big hole. Let this experience be an inspiring experience--a chance for him to be better and improve. He already has shown he as THAT CAPABILITY to stand up to the TASK and do well. 

      In the future, he and ALL OF US will face a lot of "failures" in our lives not that we're not good, but simply because we are all young and because we are young we are inexperienced with life and therefore we are bound to make MISTAKES. And mistakes ARE PART OF LIFE so don't let them BURDEN YOU or HIM--let them be an experience that will MOTIVATE YOU to do better, to IMPROVE, to work HARDER and AIM HIGHER. When your brother sees an obstacle ahead--don't let him be depressed again--but merely say to himself--I know this is HARD and I've made some mistakes, but I will use this chance to STRIVE TO BE BETTER and improve. Tell him he is able to do that because he really is able.

     On a side note--I'm a student teacher which means I'm still in college but I'm a "future teacher" who will be a real teacher in a year. When I am at the high school, I see many many of my kids/students who give up on themselves because they've earned a lower grade than what they wanted to get. I also see a lot of students who think they are FAILURES because they never did well in school. They've been getting F for 4 or 5 years now and have lost all hope in themselves. Those kids are past the depression part---they now are apathetic and SIMPLY DON'T CARE. They say their life will be a waste because they themselves are WORTHLESS and thus there's no purpose in trying hard. 

       Yet, despite these strong feelings they have, I DON'T AND NEVER WILL give up on them. They have great potential and EVERYDAY I tell them the difference they could be making in the world. I remind them that GREAT MINDS of our world were NOT BORN SMART--but all of them had one thing in common--THEY NEVER GAVE  UP ON THEMSELVES AND ON THE IMPACT THEY WILL HAVE ON THE WORLD. They believed in themselves and WORKED HARD---harder than anyone out there and eventually they succeeded. I tell this to them everyday because I deeply believe that when we put our hearts to ANYTHING, anything is possible. We CAN BE happy and we aren't WORTHLESS! And my efforts have paid off because they can see that now and now they are working hard and not debasing themselves anymore. 

        Below is a response I gave to another person who was doing bad in his math classes and I think a person who had a low GPA--but I told him about one of my best friends Jose who I knew since middle school. Although this is going to a high school student, it still pertains to your brother. If you're not shocked by how much I wrote already (sorry but I'm an English major!) you can read it. It's a true story and I hope it offers some inspiration for your brother and for you too!

     I had a friend who never was good at math yet his passion was to become a doctor because when he was little, he had a major head injury when his mom's car got smashed because of another car accident and a doctor practically saved his life. He wanted to do the same for other people. But, like most Latin Americans out there, he didn't have the money to hire a tutor and because his mom had to work all day (plus she didn't understand English), he didn't get that much support although their relationship is very good. But, he just wanted to be a doctor. 

   So he worked extremely hard at his math, sciences and went to the teacher everyday to get help after school and in the morning came to him again to check how he did. He did this his sophomore, and junior year in high school. At home, he would spend hours and hours doing and redoing math questions and science problems because these were the classes most important to him if he wanted to be a doctor although they were also the ones he struggled the most in. He did all these problems in his notebook to the point that his notebook was wrinkled and ragged from the many times he spent, reviewing the homework to study for tests--(which meant he touched it off and so the notebook looked like someone had beaten it so many times). 

    Although he tried his hardest and he improved greatly--going from literally a F to a B--he still didn't get that A he wanted. When it came for him to apply for college, he was scared because he wanted to go to a top school but he feared that his B/C average would keep him from getting in and in his freshman year, he didn't seek so much help so his grades there are horrible. But I told him that he an an "A+" for his effort although that didn't show up in his grades and that he should not discourage himself and go ahead and apply for the top schools. I even dared him to apply for Harvard and he was really reluctant to do it until I printed the application myself and gave it to him and together we filled it out. 

     When it came for him to ask for recommendations, I told him to ask his math and science teachers because they DID SEE the amount of effort he put in and ALL OF THEM were enthusiatic to write him recommendations. When it came to write that college essay--I further told him to write about his struggles at school--to tell his dreams to these top colleges. Because he was low income, he also was able to get fee waivers to most of the schools. After doing all he could do, he sent out his college applications.

    Winter break came and both of us, in need of money went and worked together at the mall. We didn't work in the same store-but luckily we were able to find seasonal jobs in the same mall. We worked full hours during winter break--with no rest. I told him that if he wanted to visit colleges that he got accepted to, he would have to work like 8 hours a day for a good 2 weeks in order to get enough money to visit them. He worked harder than me...taking another job (night shift) in some place in LA--I forgot. Spring semester came and soon we started to get college letters. Many Cal States accepted him but only the lowest UCs and none of the top colleges accepted him. He was devastated. 

     I told him to appeal and I said, no matter what you need to stay strong. The first university I told him to appeal was Harvard because after applying he said that would be the school he wanted to go to the most. I never discouraged him. I told him to get in contact with the Admissions at Harvard and ask them for an interview with one of the admission officers. I told him to bring his notebooks and everything he had--examples of his work, along with everything he had and I told him to fly over there. His parents thought he was crazy and it took a long time to convince them but we eventually did. He told his teachers about it early, got the homework ahead of time, and flew to Massachusetts.

   This is what he told me when he came back: He said that when he went to Harvard--he immediately went to see the interviewer and he only asked him for 20 minutes of his time. This interview had already been set. He already filed an appeal a couple of weeks ago and so they knew who he was and had his application in a folder. He told me he was in this room with the interviewer and she said that after looking at his records and his grades and everything, she didn't feel that he was ready to come to this school. She said it would be intense. 

   That was when he told him his life story and how he wanted to be a doctor and all the effort he placed into his math classes. He took out his series of math and science notebooks that have been wrinkled, ragged, torned, but still in tact and showed them to the admissions officer. The notebooks were dated and two years of material along with the notes in his current math class (senior year) was there and he showed her what he did as a sophomore and as a junior and how he improved drastically. He told her that as long as she gave him a chance, even 1 semester, he would be able to show her what he could do.

  After talking to her for another 15 minutes, she said she would re-look at his application. She told him he would hear from Harvard again and that was the end of it.

  Jose came back to school and continued to work hard. 3 weeks after he went to Harvard, Jose, received a letter in the mail. The letter was thin just like his rejection letter and he was scared. He went into his room and opened it, and the first word he noticed on the paper was "Congratulations!" Miraculously he was accepted and he called me immediately afterwards to tell me. Later that day, we met up with each other and celebrated. His parents were sorta in shock but was greatly happy. Harvard provided full tuition to low income students so he didn't have to pay money to go there. When he went back to high school, he told all of his teachers and they congratulated him.

 He worked extra hard and didn't stop with meeting with his teachers for help. That last semester, it was close but he managed to get a B+/A- in his math class and his teacher certainly gave him the A-.

</code></pre>

<p>That was 4 years ago. Since he went to Harvard, he worked exceptionally hard in his classes. He managed to keep his grade up to a 3.5 average and graduate. Now, he's in Harvard's medical school (1st year) and doing great. Remember, you need to believe in yourself because anyone can do well as long as they put their hard work to it. Everytime I encourage people, Jose's name always get mentioned. Take care and thanks for reading. I hope it has changed the way to view yourself.</p>

<pre><code> I hope you read this to your brother or have him read it because the story is true to the bottom of my heart and I hope it will give your brother hope to get out of his depression and start living a life that is filled with hope, happiness, and a million opportunities out there to do anything he wants. Remember, his life is just beginning so stay strong and work hard. It will all pay off--!! :) Thanks for reading.
</code></pre>

<p>Happy Camper:</p>

<p>This is what I was trying to point out in another thread. You shouldn't stress about your grades. That is the worst thing you can do.</p>

<p>I wish I had a friend like you. Motivation is the key to success. The hardest part is finding the motivation.</p>

<p>I really liked your post, Happy_Camper101. It means a lot. But yet, are graduate programs really responsive to such circumstances? (especially if they indicate potential vulnerability to emotional stressors?) While people often do grow stronger out of stresses such as depression and low GPAs, it still holds that those who have been depressed in the past are more likely to become depressed in the future.</p>