Is New Commonwealth College a "Game-Changer" for UMass Amherst?

College Search & Selection
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<p>Number of reasons. DD would like to attend college in the northeast/mid-Atlantic. We will not qualify for FA, but cannot afford full sticker price at privates, OOS state U’s. Some of the schools you mention are in the south and/or TX, and for political reasons DD is not comfortable attending schools in that region (she is very liberal, atheist). Virginia is as far south as she will consider going. DD’s stat’s are solid (2080 SAT - re-taking next month, 3.98 uw GPA, class rank 4/325), but not extraordinary. I grew up in MA and have a nostalgic soft spot for New England. Would love to see her go “back home.”</p>

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<p>However, note that entire states are not uniformly left or right leaning. Pennsylvania may seem to be left leaning overall, but there is a significant difference between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh versus the rest of the state (e.g. Penn State University Park is in a right leaning House of Representatives district (PA #5)). Alabama may seem to be right leaning overall, but the University of Alabama campuses in Tuscaloosa and Birmingham are in a left leaning House of Representatives district (AL #7).</p>

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<p>I think the honors college may attract some students who are on the fence about UMASS but I think the criteria aren’t stringent enough at this time. Case in point, my daughter is a “borderline” honors college kid–1930 SATs, 4.3 weighted GPA, class rank 28/400 with a few AP classes. She got into UMASS’s honors college, and a couple others…but was waitlisted for another school’s honors program, and didn’t even apply to a couple. So, the kids that are getting in to the UMASS honors college aren’t really the “best and brightest”. Now, they may be able to raise the criteria as it gets more competitive, but that remains to be seen.</p>

<p>I think, too, there are SO MANY colleges in New England–it’s going to be tough for UMASS to distinguish itself as anything other than a State U, with lots of excellent schools, good schools, niche schools, etc. within an easy driving distance.</p>

<p>For my daughter, she couldn’t get past the feeling of a university dropped into the middle of a cornfield.</p>

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<p>JRCLMOM you wrote,
"For my daughter, she couldn’t get past the feeling of a university dropped into the middle of a cornfield. "</p>

<p>I use to think that but after a lot of college visits I changed my mind.
RPI is surrounded by an ugly scary city, as with WPI and Yale and Brown.
UMASS may be in the middle of nowhere but so isn’t Cornell… but I think UMASS has one of the best College towns next to it. so even though it may seem to be in the middle of a cornfield …I thought the location was great… the location wasn’t the reason why I didn’t choose UMASS…In fact I like the location…I thought it was one of the better campus spots.</p>

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If I was going to pick a state school to experience New England during college I’d recommend UVM … personally I think Burlington blows Amherst away as a college town … and UVM does have merit for OOS students. Two possible negatives for UVM … it’s a long way from a US city (although as close to Montreal as UMass is to Boston) … and the winter is long in Vermont. (one last one … UVM has a hippie vibe to it … this can be a positive or a negative depending on the student).</p>

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<p>Native New Yorker here.Two children who attended the Honors College within a flagship State U.One went to Barrett at ASU b/c it combined honors plus School of Music she needed.She was Nationl Merit Finalist and had tuition covered, we paid some room and board. Second considered UMass for combo of sports Management and Honors.Loved the Business School, hated the dorms and the merit $$ offer was ultimately a turn off. He was also National Merit Finalist and got a free ride and beyond at U South Carolina…no comparision of facilities (new dorm wasnt open yet when he started there but still much better than at UMass) and the Honors program offerings were stellar.People too, and faculty from all over the US and world…Don’t let the “south” deter you from looking…lots of OOS kids, and a liberal enough vibe for my non religious kid.Open your minds people, and let your kids minds be open too.Oh yes, and theres that wonderful weather, and SEC football…or in the case of ASU,Pac10 football.</p>

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<p>I think the new Honors College facilities could well attract many in-state students who may have been admitted to excellent private colleges but compare the price tags. Knowing they can get the extra honors college benefits in-state for vastly less than out-of-state or private college tuition could very well sway many MA students in that direction. I’m not sure the difference will be quite as dramatic in atttracting out-of-state students, though. </p>

<p>My son considered UMASS Amherst for their excellent Computer Science program (after being accepted as an out-of-state student with a decent merit scholarship offer) but ultimately decided to go to an in-state Honors College. Being in an honors college has definitely enhanced his college experience. Priority registration is a huge plus and allows him to get the classes and professors he wants as well as tailor his schedule around his paid internship hours. The honors dorm made it easy for him to meet other motivated students, and the honors college classes are taught by some of the University’s best professors.</p>

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<p>I think Amherst is a pretty cool college town especially since there are a bunch of other colleges in the area. I agree with cathymee, colleges are usually more liberal than the states they are located so don’t let that deter you from the south. I’m at Clemson and while we’re one of the more conservative colleges in the country (apparently according to Princeton Review), there are a bunch of liberal professors and students are more liberal than South Carolina is (Obama had a rally here when he was running in 08).</p>

<p>UVM is probably my pick if I had to go to a public school in New England but it’s very expensive for out of state students (again not familiar with scholarships/aid at UVM)</p>

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<h1>44 (because I can’t seem to quote)–I agree that the location will be a plus for some, a minus for others. My daughter wound up at Boston University (non-honors), so that gives you an idea of what she was looking for in terms of location. Ironically, she loves the Amherst area to visit/shop–we live about an hour away.</h1>

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<p>Other than cost, there are too many better universities in MA. I don’t see UMass ever catching up to the other large national universities that are generally more prestigious.</p>

<p>Harvard/MIT/Tufts/BC/Northeastern/BU/Brandeis.</p>

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<p>The five colleges there have a cross registration agreement. Usually, it is to the benefit of the four others which are small LACs and can use UMass to get more upper division course offerings, though UMass students may want to see if they can take common lower division introductory courses in a LAC setting. However, cross registration would mean some commuting, as the campuses are not adjacent to each other.</p>

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It’s all relative, I guess.</p>

<p>Compared to a school like Colgate (Hamilton, NY), Amherst is a thriving metropolis:</p>

<p><a href=“http://■■■■■■/maps/YyYC3[/url]”>http://■■■■■■/maps/YyYC3&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I remember driving for an hour+ from the highway… nothing but corn. :cool:</p>

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<p>DGDzDad, you might look into Northeastern University as an option for your daughter. School can be generous to high-achieving kids that come from outside the northeast. It’s in Boston, great co-op program, etc.</p>

<p>We live in Colorado, wouldn’t have qualified for FA, daughter wanted (and we encouraged it) to go out of state. She ended up at Northeastern and, as they say, lived happily ever after.</p>

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<p>Northeastern is a fantastic school for certain majors (don’t know if the co-op program really works for people with liberal arts majors) but they have fantastic financial aid (at least when I applied 4 years ago). I had average stats and was probably somewhat lucky to get into Northeastern but I still got a $15,000/year scholarship which helped with the cost of admissions. Northeastern is definitely an up and coming school - has improved a lot over the past few years.</p>

<p>The location of a school is really relative to what the student wants. Some people want a large city, some don’t care, other would prefer a college town. I’m at Clemson which is a small town in upstate South Carolina and I love the small town atmosphere (everything here revolves around the university), which is a change of pace from growing up in Boston the first 16 years of my life. I’d probably prefer to live in a city after I graduate but it’s been a great experience nevertheless.</p>

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<p>I have my doubts that UMass will ever be on the same level as the top five public schools. The most important reason, as others have mentioned, is cost. With so many wealthy Ivies offering full rides, not that many people are going to choose UMass. </p>

<p>Honors college is also too small. UCLA and Berkeley both have 25K+ undergrads and 10k+ grads. And Ma. has too many good schools. Compare UMass’ situation with those of UCLA or Berkeley. UCLA is the best research university in a region (LA+SD) of over 20 million people. Berkeley is #2 in a region that is unquestionably the hottest tech hub in the world.</p>

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<p>The only way to improve UMass rankings, is by spending a significant amount of money. The honors college is a good step, but far more needs to be spent. It needs to upgrade facilities, improve faculty, and entice high performing students with grants/scholarships…and increase it’s fundraising efforts.</p>

<p>Other than raising funds, another real challenge for UMass is demographics. In 2000, 27.7% of Massachusetts population was under the age of 21. In 2012, that number was down to 21.1%. Unlike the highly selective private universities, most of UMass students need to come from Massachusetts (about 73% are in-state today). As this population of college age students drops, competition will increase. </p>

<p>Compare the population growth rates of Massachusetts (0.5%) to states like California (2.4%), Texas (3.6%) and Florida (2.7%) from 2010 to 2012. The national average was 1.7%. </p>

<p>The public schools viewed a bit better than UMass, that it would need to jump over, include FSU, Auburn, Alabama, several SUNY’s, UC-SC and Virginia Tech. All of these schools have better demographics (the SUNY’s only slightly so) and many have excellent Alumni support ($$$).</p>

<p>UMass has to out invest it’s competitors, while fighting against it’s demographics problem. The current “UMass Rising” capital campaign has a 300 million dollar target, started in 2010 and will end in 2016. </p>

<p>[UMass</a> Amherst launches $300M ‘UMass Rising’ capital campaign - Boston Business Journal](<a href=“http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/blog/mass_roundup/2013/04/umass-fundraising-campaign.html?page=all]UMass”>http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/blog/mass_roundup/2013/04/umass-fundraising-campaign.html?page=all)</p>

<p>In 2009, the University of Alabama’s seven-year fundraising campaign ended after taking in more than $612 million.</p>

<p>Of course, the higher your rankings, the more you have to spend to improve it…for example:</p>

<p>UF’s effort (“UF Preeminence”) to break into the top 10 of public universities (it’s currently in the top 20) started this year. UF plans on raising 800 million in 3 years (runs thru 2016).</p>

<p>UMass can approve, but it will need good leadership that excels at fundraising.</p>

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<p>True, but I sure cannot understand why one would attend a LAC – at private LAC prices – and then take classes at the public Uni. (But then I’m not a fan of the Consortium and believe the benefits are more hype than real.)</p>

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<p>Needy out-of-staters might find that some of those LACs are cheaper than UMass - Amherst. Some may want both the small faculty led lower division courses of a LAC and the large selection of upper division courses of a research university.</p>

<p>However, it is true that the commuting makes this consortium less convenient that Barnard - Columbia cross registration.</p>

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<p>Honors colleges work well at other places because the “honors” applicants have some underlying desire to attend that public colleges, but need to convince themselves they are not selling themselves short and/or sacrificing too much vs. their other options by going there. I think many other publics have a lot more underlying desire going for them than UMASS: they have more prominent sports teams, a large percentage of college grads in those states went there, they get more publicity in local media, and there are fewer nearby competitive colleges for applicants to dream about attending when they are growing up, etc. If you grow up in michigan, california, texas, alabama, arizona, etc. going to the flagship state U is an option that almost all think they will eventually consider. </p>

<p>UMASS, unfortunately, does not have that underlying buzz that other state schools have. In MA, very few people grow up assuming they will apply to UMass. When you combine that with a relatively low bar for admittance to the honors college, the honors college seems less special. Add to that the so-so financial breaks and it is even less appealing. I think the breakdown between tuition and fees seems like a “bait and switch” to some applicant families, who expect more when they first hear “free tuition”. Add to that all the New England colleges to choose from, and UMASS has an uphill battle. They will need to make the financial break for top students (not top 15% but perhaps top 5%) to be really at a different level than the private options to start making solid traction.</p>

<p>Even if the new building helps somewhat, there is a huge lag effect, and it will take a long time to move perceptions.</p>

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<p>With Harvard, Amherst, Williams, MIT, Wellesley, Tufts, Brandeis, Holy Cross, BC, BU, all within the one state of Massachusetts, the Mass state schools have competition that no other state in the nation has.</p>