<p>What’s so bad about being a socialist/communist these days? The cold war has ended decades for god’s sake. Why would you care if he is one?</p>
<p>I think he has some socialist tendency. And it’s about time! We as a country definitely have very socialist tendencies, but no one wants to acknowledge it :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I’m not a huge fan of the HC bill, but I’m glad it passed. It was probably a one-shot deal and it will be the first time in my life that I will be able to have FULL health coverage. Pre-existing condition as a baby has plagued me my whole life.</p>
<p>ah! lovely! lambas bread.</p>
<p>I don’t see the problem. So what if it’s socialist/communist? It’s economy reform not ethics reform. </p>
<p>As long as it works, and doesn’t interfere with anything in the 1st amendment, America is still America.</p>
<p>Was FDR a socialist for bringing in New Deal programs that helped Americans get out of harsh times during the Depression and for giving us Social Security that most senior citizens in America rely on after retirement? Was Lyndon B. Johnson a socialist for giving us Medicare and Medicaid? Was Wilson a socialist for trying to end all trusts? Was Teddy Roosevelt a socialist for his desire of universal healthcare and to provide the American people with sanitary situations in work places and dissolving major trusts that cause the American economy to crash financially?</p>
<p>The answer is no to all questions–They are all idealists who wished for a better America. Obama wishes for a better America as well, and though the healthcare bill isn’t the best (if you research it, it’s pretty weak legislature and a lot of the pork in it doesn’t even have to do with healthcare), he still is trying to provide NEAR-universal healthcare. Only if this legislature passed during a time when we could actually pay for it and not go into more and more debt, like oh, let’s say, the 1920s?</p>
<p>There are pretty good debates about this topic in the Medical forum on CC.</p>
<p>As an aspiring physician, I do not support the health care bill. I find that it’s taking money away from those that slave away trying to reach an affulent lifestyle and give to those that weren’t as motivated during their educational years.</p>
<p>Health Care sits behind the facade of humanitarianism, but if you look beyond that, it has a back drop of economic decline.</p>
<p>Physicians get paid less, and let’s be honest, the field is a major draw because of the salaries. I have as noble intentions as the next person, but I would think twice about spending a huge amount of money educating myself in a field, and then spending the next 10 years paying it off. The average primary care physician gets a pay cut of almost 60,000.</p>
<p>And you might say that Physicians get paid too much as it is. Well if you work 12 hour days trying to save lives, I think you rightly deserve it!</p>
<p>Yes, I’m biased, and I haven’t explored the almost 1000 pages of the bill, but that’s my opinion.</p>
<p>As far as socialism goes, I am a supporter of the Obama Administration and had the pleasure of experiencing many of his rallies. I respect him as a leader that’s guiding the U.S. into the new era. I just don’t agree with this bill.</p>
<p>yeah, he is a bit of a socialist. & your point is…?</p>
<p>“Regarding the health care bill: I hope I die young because if i don’t, i might have to placed in front of a panel who will decide whether or not i get something that could mean life or death.”</p>
<p>■■■■■. i hope that was sarcasm.</p>
<p>Wats wrong with having the government manage healthcare? </p>
<p>Is this a ■■■■■■ statement? I’d suggest you take a look at other other government run operations. The DMV and the public education system are the most notorious, soon to be joined by healthcare.</p>
<p>I mean honestly, government workers have NO INCENTIVE to hold down costs or become efficient. Compare public schools vs private/ charters.</p>
<p>I’m honestly tired of folks throwing out the word “socialism” to describe Obama. As far as I know, he hasn’t indicated that he wants to reform society into a tightly-knit, self-sufficient community without government. Unfortunately, many silly (and usually ignorant) Americans are still stuck in the Cold War and look at the old U.S.S.R. for their definition of socialism --a concept that didn’t even originate in the U.S.A. or former U.S.S.R.</p>
<p>Hahalolk certainly does have a point! America is hardly comparable at all to the socialist countries of Europe.</p>
<p>America has so much racial tension that still exists today; to deny that fact is to be ignorant. Not everyone is going to want to cooperate, hold hands and sing kumbaya. Not to mention, there are the illegal immigrants that must eventually be covered (if they aren’t already, that in itself is something of confusion) if our healthcare policy is to be based on the idea that healthcare is a natural right. “Oh, it’s not like that matters anyway, since the Government is going to take and handle all the money, not that pessimistic half of America,” you may say. Well, then it becomes outright government theft. I’m sorry.</p>
<p>On the other hand, those Northern European countries are all very homogeneous and naturally have the means to have socialistic states. Well, actually, the last part of that statement is debatable in itself. :P</p>
<p>Am I saying socialism is bad? Not necessarily. However, a country like America is simply not able to become a welfare state.</p>
<p>I prefer to limit my idealism within reality.</p>
<p>But most of what I’ve said so far is just an argument against socialism, not so much about the healthcare bill. Sorry.</p>
<p>Regarding the healthcare bill, I feel too uninformed to be deserving of an opinion. But I’m leaning against it… mostly because the timing of it all. America’s economy is getting screwed over enough with conducting two foreign wars and having to print out God knows how much money to pay programs like these off. And the whole Mick Jagger generation is still around (I know, he’s English… but you get my point). I mean, I love the Rolling Stones, but seriously! You pretty much swallowed down Social Security and Medicaid… now you guys decide to come in and take more candy from your own babies by shoving this poorly crafted bill down America’s throat?</p>
<p>I’m sorry if I offended anyone actually in that generation… but I hope you understand the position where I’M coming from. Future generations have no political voice, but they are the ones getting hurt by the policies of today.</p>
<p>But seriously, people, if you want to defend the Left from accusations of being socialist, point out how the Left is not socialist! Don’t just accept those accusations and try defending socialism, because you are going to lose that argument.</p>
<p>Happy Easter.</p>
<p>Just expressing my youthful and rather brash temerity…</p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20100319/NEWS/303199956#[/url]”>http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20100319/NEWS/303199956#</a></p>
<p>[AMA</a> - How the passage of federal health system reform legislation](<a href=“http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/hsr-impacts-practice.shtml]AMA”>http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/hsr-impacts-practice.shtml)</p>
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<p>You want to make specific points about how they won’t hold down costs or create inefficiency? Frankly, private insurance companies have no incentive to pay out for treatment or to cover people that they deem to be high risk. They’re not tasked with serving their customers, they’re trying to make a profit for themselves at the customers’ expense.</p>
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<p>One… RIGHT… because us poor folks are just lazy bastards who drank our college years away :rolleyes:. </p>
<p>Sorry, we’re all not engineers and doctors. If we were, the country would collapse. Believe it or not, we DO need people to work at McDonalds in order to keep America moving, but I digress. </p>
<p>Besides, if anything, without the legislation, you would have just been paying higher and higher for malpractice insurance and unnecessary tests that are plaguing the medicare system in America. The take-home pay of many doctors has been substantially cut in the last few years because of increasing health care costs.</p>
<p>^What did the bill do about malpractice insurance and unnecesary tests?</p>
<p>My stance: This is a democracy, and if enough people want a new healthcare system that is fine by me. I personally think it isn’t a good plan, but I don’t like social security either. However, I have a major objection to this legislation being passed over the majority opinion of Americans. I also consider it a blatant violation of my rights for me to be forced to purchase full healthcare coverage, even for services I do not want. For those reasons, I opposed the bill and will continue to do so until it is repealed or my concerns are addressed.</p>
<p>Whether Obama is a socialist, I don’t know. But he, or at least the people who pull his strings, is certaily influenced by socialists, and has a dangerous level of elitist facism in his views.</p>
<p>@romanigypsyeyes AMEN!</p>
<p>Not everyone wants to be a doctor or lawyer. For example, say someone wants to be a construction worker. Construction workers do not get paid nearly as much as a doctor/lawyer, yet they may still work JUST as hard and JUST as many hours! Therefore, after a long hard day at work, construction workers don’t have as much money as doctors or lawyers do after paying their bills and providing for their family. How are they going to afford health care? (Right now, costs are RIDICULOUS! And I know especially since my dad is the owner of a family roofing business. Since he’s a small business owner, he isn’t covered by his employer, therefore he has to cover himself…which is hard for him to do since he already does not get paid much. So because he “was lazy and didn’t go to college” (i’ve been hearing that A LOT lately! the quotation goes “i don’t want to have to pay for people who don’t want to better themselves or take care of themselves like i do! i don’t want to pay for people who are lazy and didn’t go to college, when i’m working hard going to college!”), he is stuck with outrageous costs to pay. Just because he didn’t go to college, doesn’t mean he’s lazy and sits around on the couch all day. America wouldn’t function without people in ALL sorts of jobs. Luckily with Obama’s healthcare plan, my dad will get a tax credit since he’s a small business owner. My brother, who works with my father, will be able to be on my parents’ plan till he’s 26. People with pre-existing conditions (cancer, etc.) can’t be denied by insurance companies. I feel like people are hearing that the government is TAKING OVER healthcare and won’t let themselves believe that the bill can BENEFIT them. If that’s not the case, then just because it’s not helping you, doesn’t mean it’s not helping other people.</p>
<p>Back to my example lol. Yes, we need people to work in all careers for America function. Just because doctors and lawyers get paid more doesn’t mean they should be the only ones able to afford health care. That’s NOT fair.</p>
<p>I hate how people think they will NEVER lose their jobs (get laid off, etc.). If you lose your job, you’re not going to have a way to pay for health care costs. I plan on going to college and living a successful, fun life, but NOBODY knows what is really going to happen. Personally, I’m okay with paying a bit more in taxes knowing it could go toward someone needing treatment for cancer, or for someone who has to make the decision between groceries for the week or paying for their health bill because I know that one day I could possibly be in their situation. Anyone could get hit by a car, accidently break a bone, or get very sick (a student at my school passed away in january because he had food poisoning) and if you don’t have health insurance, you can say SEE YA LATA to some savings you worked hard to build up to pay for the bills. If you don’t have any savings, you would probably have to file for bankruptcy. So for something that you didn’t even do, your entire life would be completely turned around for the worse.</p>
<p>All reasons I support universal health care.</p>
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How does this bill control costs and restrict unnecessary medical procedures? This is a legit question - I haven’t read the full text of the legislation - that I’d like to see answered.</p>
<p>Based solely on the analysis I’ve seen, there is really no cost-control built in and the primary goal of the legislation is to bankrupt the system so the government can finally step in with single-payer.</p>
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<p>Actually… we’re a republic. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Anyway, one of things that it does do is make insurance actually pay for what they say they will. This in turn lowers costs (because it doesn’t jack up the prices for those who actually CAN pay). I could go into more detail, but I don’t feel like pulling up statistics for the eventual nay-sayers, so I’m just gonna leave it at that. [It would just be even more of an excuse for me to procrastinate on the 240+ pages of The Cave that I have due tomorrow.]</p>
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<p>Yeah… you see sometimes the majority has it wrong. The majority of Americans were against de-segregation, interracial marriage, child labor laws, women’s suffrage, etc. Now… should the majority ALWAYS rule? Nope. Sorry, the majority has to look out for the rights of the minority.</p>
<p>^n other words, you aren’t going to answer my question? It’s an honest question, I really don’t know whether it will help with malpractice, since I’ve not seen much about it either in the bill or in any of the debate.</p>
<p>I agree that sometimes the majority is wrong. But which minority are we looking out for right now? What minority, previously denied its rights, will now get them thanks to this bill?</p>
<p>^ I agree that it doesn’t go far enough in malpractice claims. </p>
<p>The costs are reduced by a number of things that would take me much too long to explain. I’m just going to leave it at my opinion. Normally, I am one to engage in argument, but I really don’t feel like it now. I think I’m tired of arguing about this bill. </p>
<p>And the minority is people who are routinely denied health care because of X, Y, and Z reasons. Sorry, in a country as “rich” and “powerful” as ours, I believe health care should be a right.</p>
<p>Regarding Obama passing this over the majority of Americans, perhaps you and I were reading different opinion polls.</p>
<p>Also, I’d just like to say that the “death panels” controversy happened at the same time that my great-aunt was dying. My parents and a great deal of other relatives had a sensible discussion with her doctors about how to make her more comfortable, the process she would be going through, her mental status throughout this, and so on. That’s what a death panel is.</p>
<p>As an aspiring physician, I do not support the health care bill. I find that it’s taking money away from those that slave away trying to reach an affulent lifestyle and give to those that weren’t as motivated during their educational years.</p>
<p>“Affluent lifestyle”? That’s a horrible reason to oppose larger health coverage; especially as a so-called physician.</p>