Is Reed worth $130K for 4 years?

Paying for College
1

<p>I'm in a terrible financial dilemma with my financial aid. My top choice currently (for my accepted schools) is Reed. It fits me well, quirky and academic, but it is the most expensive out of the ones I did get accepted to. I got accepted to Fordham, UC Davis, and St. John's College in Santa Fe. My FA has been a crapshoot because my privates all required the CSS profile in addition to the FAFSA, while UCD did not. </p>

<p>UCD is the cheapest, about $14,500 a year ($3,500 if I didn't count the loans). Reed is $31,000 roughly ($33,000 with loans) a year. St. John's is the same and Fordham is $27,000 (with loans) a year. </p>

<p>I really don't want to net $130K of debt for Reed for four years. I'm not even considering Fordham or St. John's because my feelings about them are lukewarm at best. My family income is about what Fordham wants me to pay. </p>

<p>My dad has been unemployed for two years and is in his 60s, and my mom hasn't worked for ten years and has been on disability, and she's in her 50s. Both of them are pretty close to retirement age, but probably can't retire because they don't work. The CSS profile screwed us up because my parents saved up a lot of money in the bank from working in restaurants for the 30 years they've been in America. Their bank account money is basically their IRA, what they'll live on when they "retire". Consequently, it makes it look like I have money to pay for college, but that's really not the case. My mom also has a large stock portfolio, but the values have dropped a lot since the economy tanked. </p>

<p>I'm not sure how to go about attending college because of my finances. UCD is my most financially viable option, but I have lukewarm feelings about it too. Reed is my love out of those schools, and I'm still waiting to hear back from my waitlist schools though my chances of getting into them are slim (I wouldn't mind being in debt $200K for either of those two, figuratively speaking).</p>

<p>I'm considering community college as well, saving some money and probably making my parents put more of their bank account money into a 529 plan or some retirement fund and perhaps reapplying to my dream schools as a transfer. </p>

<p>What should I do? Reed or UCD (purely finances)? I am planning on going to grad school as well, so I'm trying to mitigate the amount of debt I accrue. </p>

<p>BTW, I did write a letter asking for more FA from Reed. Just haven't sent it yet b/c I want my counselor to look over it.</p>

<p>Thank you in advance for any advice!</p>

2

<p>Chosing a college should be a financial decision and not an emotional decision. School loans must be paid back so finances will be a factor until they are paid off. There is no emotional decision about paying them off. You can choose to be happy at any school. Why not choose to be happy at a more affordable school? </p>

<p>Community college is an excellent option for you. If you choose this route, you will meet any other students just like you who opted out of crushing debt. And if you are serious about grad school, you will find it about impossible to pay off $130,000 plus grad school loans on an entry level salary.</p>

3

<p>Someone else gave a link to this great calculator:
[Debt</a> / salary wizard](<a href=“Mapping Your Future: Page not found”>Mapping Your Future: Debt / salary wizard)</p>

4

<p>If I understand you correctly your parents don’t have retirement accounts, the money they plan to use for retirement is in the bank. This may have made a difference in how much financial aid you received. It sounds like your parents can’t help you very much. Make sure Reed understands both of these points in your letter.</p>

5

<p>No way should you borrow that much money.</p>

<p>Do you know that your parents would have to co-sign those big loans? If they won’t do it, then the subject is moot.</p>

<p>YOU can only borrow the following amounts…</p>

<p>5500 frosh
6500 soph
7500 jr
7500 sr</p>

<p>So, if your parents won’t co-sign (and it’s not likely they will), then you need to go to wherever is affordable. </p>

<p>*UCD is the cheapest, about $14,500 a year ($3,500 if I didn’t count the loans). *</p>

<p>???</p>

<p>Are you saying that you got about 11,000 in loans from UCD??? Are some of the loans Parent Plus loans? Are they willing to take out Plus loans or will they just pay?</p>

<p>how much will your parents contribute each year?</p>

<p>What exactly is the FA breakdown for Davis?</p>

<p>It’s too bad that you didn’t apply to schools that would have given you large merit scholarships for your stats. It doesn’t sound like you were advised very well.</p>

6

<p>Here is another calculator that will help you compare the costs: [FinAid</a> | Calculators | Award Letter Comparison Tool](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Award Letter Requirements - Finaid)</p>

<p>Your most economical option would be to start at a community college. However, you should also consider taking a Gap Year so that you can reconsider your college list and apply to places that are more likely to give you the kind of aid you need.</p>

7

<p>1) No college is worth that type of debt for undergraduate work. Not Harvard, not Princeton, and certainly not Reed.</p>

<p>2) I am guessing that the difference between FAFSA EFC & CSS is that your parents have a lot of money in the bank, but you qualify for -0- EFC on the FAFSA. If your parents own a home then the home equity is being counted in for the CSS Profile – if not, then I am guessing based on the calculated EFC that they’ve got roughly $450-$500K in assets. I would agree with you that with no other income, at their age your parents cannot afford to fund a private college for you. HOWEVER, they should be able to spare a few thousand a year. It’s not like they will starve if they pay $10,000 of your college costs every year – and you can pay them back down the line after you have completed your education and paid off other loans. </p>

<p>3) Go to UCD – it is what you can afford and it is really the only viable options right now. It is an excellent college and it will give you the educational foundation you need for the future. And you will be in a position to afford to pay for grad school, because the debt you take on will not be impossible. </p>

<p>4) As to debt – my advice is to take on subsidized loans only (the kind that don’t start running interest or require payment until after you graduate). That would be Stafford and Perkins. Your parents should not take PLUS loans when they have money in the bank – they are better off to just use their money (for Davis, definitely not Reed). Obviously you should also work and contribute as much as possible. Davis is affordable for you and, in California, it actually has a lot more name recognition than Reed – I am not disputing the quality of Reed’s academics, I’m just saying that you will never run into difficulties finding a job in California with a UC degree, and most employers think highly of Davis. (It is considered to be fairly difficult to get into and has a reputation for having serious, motivated student).</p>

8

<p>Agree, no school is worth 130k of debt. However, I am very surprised that Reed admitted you and then asked you to borrow such a large sum. The school is need aware in admission decisions. I would send them a letter to make sure they understand the circumstances. Without a substantial increase in financial aid, I would select UCD</p>

9

<p>@bookreader: I don’t feel like the other schools fit me as well as Reed does (St. John’s comes the closest, but their aid is worse: Parent PLUS loans AND off campus employment as well as the other plethora of loans), and one of the main requirements for my college was the atmosphere and campus feel. However right now I don’t really care that much about that because my finances are pretty much dictating where I’m going. </p>

<p>Community college in California is actually really great, so I’m not too worried about going there. I’d be saving a lot more money living with my parents (they manage to get a lot of food and clothes for free, whilst at college that’s not the case) and transferring into college as a sophomore, hopefully my parents smart enough to move their money elsewhere (offshore accounts maybe? they’d probably say no).</p>

<p>@mtpaper: Thank you!</p>

<p>@mom2collegekids: My parents didn’t know that until I told them they had to help me take out the loans because I have no credit (just turned 18). They kept telling me that I’d have to do everything myself, and that they wouldn’t help me. Now that they understand, they want me to go to a good college that I love (Reed) but are reluctant to have me accumulate so much debt. They are willing to co-sign though. </p>

<p>UCD gave me $5K is Stafford Subsidized and $5K in Stafford Unsubsidized. Luckily I got $10K in Cal Grants, but I still have to pay some loans. I think the rest was covered in Pell grants and other gov’t grants that I don’t have to pay back. My baseline cost though is $3500 a year, not including those Stafford loans.</p>

<p>I’m not sure yet how much my parents are willing to pay, but $10-$15 per year would be okay for them I guess. They don’t tell me how much they have saved up, but I think it’s about $200K or so. </p>

<p>I go to a charter school, so it’s super small and brand spanking new. I’m the first class to go there, so the college process was a bit of a testing process. I regret not applying to state schools (stupid me, denouncing them) because I probably would have gotten some merit scholarships and could have easily paid for those schools. </p>

<p>@pea: I definitely included this in the letter, because if my parents were young, had jobs, and could speak English better (or at all, which my dad can’t, making it harder for him to get a job at 62), I would be more willing to take on $130K in debt. But that’s not the case, so I can’t.</p>

<p>@calmom: My EFC was definitely 0 on the FAFSA, but on the CSS profile I think that differed a lot. My parents were pretty smart, they paid off our house mortgage a long time ago. My mom is pretty astute for someone who doesn’t speak English that well, sinking a lot of her money into stock portfolios and our house, but I guess that didn’t help too much. My parents owe nothing, and I don’t know how much my parents actually have but if I think $450-500 would be right around the ballpark of the amount of assets we have (maybe less, unless the real estate values perk up). They definitely can spare $10K for school for me, probably a little bit more. </p>

<p>Unless Reed gives me more aid, I think my most plausible choices are UCD and comm. college. </p>

<p>UCD gave me subsidized and unsubsidized, but I’m pretty sure I can just ask my parents to pay off the $10K of Stafford loans they gave me in addition to the expected family contribution of $3500. The only place that offered me Parent PLUS loans was St. John’s, but I’m not even considering them because they gave me pretty meager FA too. I’ve ■■■■■■■ on the FA board enough to know NOT to take PLUS loans, which is why I’m staying far away from St. John’s.</p>

<p>I personally don’t think I’ll fit in entirely in Davis because I just don’t get a vibe from it. I know I shouldn’t be emotional about the college decision, but if I’m not happy on a college campus, I won’t do as well. I wanted a place more city-like but still enclosed, and Reed is in Portland, so that works. I’ve visited UCD once, but it is a bit too rural for my preferences, though I don’t dislike it. As for name recognition, I really don’t care. I didn’t choose my colleges based on prestige, but more for the type of learning that happens, which is why I applied to University of Chicago, Reed, St. John’s, etc. </p>

<p>I also wanted smaller classes, which I know I’d get at St. John’s and Reed and most of the other schools I applied to, but not sure if I’d totally get that at UCD. I like UCD, but I don’t know if I am in love with it like I am with UoC (waitlist). </p>

<p>@happymomof1: Thank you for the link! I think community college would be the best place for me to start as well, but the only problem I can find is the amount of people who apply for classes. If I do decide to go to CC, I’d have to enroll in classes on May 2nd because the competition for seats in classes is fierce in the Bay Area CCs (therefore huge classes, which I really dislike). Would a gap year entail me deferring to a college or just not going at all?</p>

<p>@Mintwood: I definitely touched on the fact that my parents are constantly mistaken for my grandparents and nearing retirement, and the fact that the bank account money is for retirement and rainy days (we’ve had quite of a few of those this year), so they shouldn’t factor the $200K or so saved up as college fund money. My mom fortunately turned my $20K or so college fund into a 529 Education fund right before we did the FAFSA and CSS profile so the schools couldn’t force me to contribute some even ungodlier amount of money.</p>

<p>NEW QUESTION:</p>

<p>Could I defer admission to Reed for a year, study at a community college for the next year, and then go to Reed as a sophomore (after sorting out my finances and transferring credits)? I’m think of this as my most appealing plan (or otherwise transferring to UoC), because UCD is a nice place, but I don’t think it’s a nice fit for me.</p>

10

<p>Reed is not going to give you any better financial aid in a year. No matter how much you want Reed, you cannot afford it, so the sooner you wake up to that fact and move on, the better. </p>

<p>One option for you would be to defer for a year and in the meantime apply to private LAC’s that are likely to offer significant merit aid. But I don’t know what that would be – coming from a small charter school you would need to have really tip end test score to attract money, and you might find that the type of schools that offer you significant merit money are not as intellectually challenging as you would like.</p>

<p>What is your prospective major? </p>

<p>UCD is suburban, not rural. The campus itself is huge and definitely the area borders on agricultural land (on the west side of campus) but the city of Davis has grown in a kind of suburban sprawl so basically it’s got a lot going on to keep students entertained, plus it’s fairly high density in the areas immediately adjacent to campus. It is not as urban as Portland, obviously – but it’s not a sleepy little farm town either. </p>

<p>If you have a car, Sacramento is a 20 minute drive.</p>

<p>I understand why you are not enthused about Davis, but the point is that with your family finances, you are not going to get affordable financial aid from any private school that requires CSS Profile. Deferring for a year isn’t going to change the situation. </p>

<p>If you want to go to community college for 2 years and then transfer to a UC or another 4 year college, that is a reasonable choice and will certainly help with the finances, but keep in mind that most private colleges don’t offer a whole lot in the way of financial aid to transfer students.</p>

<p>Have you looked into Davis Honors Challenge? See: [UC</a> Davis - Davis Honors Challenge](<a href=“UC Davis University Honors Program”>UC Davis University Honors Program)<br>
That’s not Reed & it’s not Chicago, but it is something you could consider that might help shape your experience at Davis into a somewhat better fit – you have to submit an application in May if you are interested.</p>

11

<p>If you want to be considered a Freshman applicant, and thus be poised for the best aid packages, you should not take any credit-bearing classes during a gap year. Chinese for fun at your local community center is OK, but Chinese for credit at your community college isn’t. Some colleges will consider you a Transfer if you have even one credit course that was taken after HS graduation.</p>

<p>All of the community colleges that I know enroll new students each term. If the ones in your area are like that, and you miss the registration period for the fall term, then you could just wait and enroll for the next one. Also, if you are willing to take classes evenings or weekends it may be easier to get into the courses that you want.</p>

12

<p>Taking a gap year isn’t going to solve the OP’s problems. The problem is that he (or she) has targeted a dream college that is financially unrealistic. Things aren’t going to change in a year. Given the parent’s financial situation, the OP could work during a gap year – but the OP’s earnings & savings will just push up the EFC for the coming year. </p>

<p>The OP has developed a fantasy of a life-of-the-mind, heady intellectual, great books type of education – the type of thing that can be found at St. Johns & Reed & Chicago. But the OP can’t afford that. </p>

<p>The OP has an affordable option at an excellent university, and the only problem is that it is not the type of cozy, intellectual college environment the OP has imagined. But it is a respectable college education. If the OP is aiming for a humanities major, then the OP will also have the opportunity to take the type of course s/he is looking for.</p>

13

<p>The only reason that the student might want to consider a gap year (without taking ANY classes during that time) would be to apply to schools that would give big merit for stats. This student probably has high stats, so he might be able to snag nearly a full-ride elsewhere…or at least full tuition.</p>

<p>There is no scenario where borrrowing that much money is a good idea. Frankly, I’m surprised that your parents who are savvy about savings would consent to co-sign that much money. Maybe they naively think that their English-speaking son will make a lot more than they did so paying back such loans will be easy. Or, maybe they think you can live at home while you’re paying those loans back…that’s not a good bet because you don’t know where your future job will be. </p>

<p>Again, do not borrow that much money. Not to be harsh, but you’re more “Americanized” than your parents. It’s very doubtful that you’d be living as frugally as your parents live once you graduate. (We natural-born Americans could learn a lot from the thrifty methods of many immigrants :slight_smile: )</p>

14

<p>IS Reed worth $130K is the question. The answer is, yes, it is to those who can afford it. Can you? Can your parents? You have given us a litany of circumstances as to how your parents are financially struggling, and yet you are considering saddling them with over $100K in loans. No way you are going to get loans in that amount on your own. They will have to sign which goes on their credit and if for any reason you can’t pay, you’ll be really putting them in trouble. </p>

<p>You say they have good savings. You need to sit down and talk to them about what they are willing and able to spend without putting them in a bad place. Can they afford to send you to Reed is what the question is. </p>

<p>Are you sure you got $10k in Staffords? The maximum is $5500 for a freshman. Perhaps you got other loans like the Perkins. </p>

<p>You need to read up on Reed’s policies about transfer credits and gap years. Some schools get persnickety about this. If going to a cc is not a a problem to you and if you have another UC in mind that you like better than UCD, that might be the way to go. Transfer credits would not be an issue in that case.</p>

<p>The schools where you are waitlisted are highly unlikely to give you much if any in fin aid. Even full need met schools do not have that policy for the waitlist a lot of the time. </p>

<p>The answer to your question really comes down to a family thing and how your family finances are structured. Can your parents comfortably afford to pay the amounts? Be aware as they get older, job prospects tend to get slimmer. But they do have money saved, house paid and other things in place, but only they can make that determination. We are paying $140K for our son’s education in the next 4 years but not all in loans. Be aware that loans make sense only if the income is coming to repay them because parental loan, any loans other than the subsidzed ones will be piling up the interest every day overcoming what your parents are earning in income from investments.</p>

15

<p>@calmom: I just received a response to Reed about my letter, but unfortunately there have been many other people who have sent in reevaluation letters before me. If Reed gives me back an EFC for me <$20,000, I’d probably go there. Otherwise I really think Davis will be it for me. </p>

<p>My test scores are pretty average, 1950 SAT and 29 ACT. My essays and pretty subpar ECs (compared to those on College Confidential) were what kept me afloat during this process. </p>

<p>My prospective major is business, most likely marketing/sales (not business administration or banking. No Wall Street for me). </p>

<p>I live about two hours drive away from UCD, so my dad really wants me to go because it’s so close. I didn’t know it was that close to Sacramento (Reed is 20 min. from downtown Portland). I live in the Bay Area, near San Francisco, to give you a reference.</p>

16

<p>Do your parents understand that by cosigning, it goes on their credit too. And if anything happens to you, it’s their debt. If you can’t pay due to a dry spell in employment, they have to pay? That the reason it is that way is because most kids in this situation won’t be able to pay, and the parents usually are hauled into the picture.</p>

17

<p>

Not at a college that is <em>like</em> Reed/Chicago/St. Johns or anywhere near as good academically as his already affordable option of a UC campus. (If you disagree, name an example, bearing in mind that the kid comes from a new charter school - no history, no profile - and has an SAT of 1950 - see post #15)</p>

18

<p>OP:

I think that would be the right choice, if your parent are on board & depending on their finances. It does sound like your mom has invested well, so she would know whether they could weather that type of expense.</p>

<p>But do listen to your parents. It sounds like they have to plan for the rest of their lives based on the next egg they currently have – with no outside source if income – so they are going to know best what they can spare. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Reed doesn’t offer that major. Neither does UCD. </p>

<p>I have to say I find it disconcerting that you have your heart set on a particular college and haven’t even looked to see whether it offers your major. </p>

<p>I worry that schools like Reed do a very skillful job of marketing themselves by selling a fantasy — Reed in particular pushes the image of the cool, laid-back intellectual and tends to invest a lot on its marketing, and historically has sold itself as a kind of Ivy-League caliber alternative for students who don’t have the stats to get into Ivies. </p>

<p>When I see someone who has bought into the notion of a “dream” college, but hasn’t done the basic research to figure out what programs of study the college offers – well, I worry.</p>

<p>But I do find it ironic that a kid who wants to learn about marketing/sales has so easily bought into the image that Reed is pushing. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>That’s close enough to make it convenient for your parents to get you to school and back, and for you to come home on holidays – but far enough away that you will settle into the college community and won’t feel like you are too close to home.</p>

19

<p>

While Reed does not offer a business major, there have been plenty of graduates who have gone to graduate school for accounting, marketing, etc. While you are correct that Reed does not provide that sort of training, people often forget that one’s undergraduate major does not determine one’s career path. You should also remember that most college students will change their majors multiple times before finally deciding. I came to Reed wanting to be a physics major, then a philosophy major, then a music major, and now a history major. Reed does an excellent job in providing the opportunity to explore different subjects with great depth without necessarily declaring such a subject as one’s major.</p>

<p>I would wait to see what the college says in response. If you can’t afford it, then you can’t afford it, and there’s really not much you can do about that.</p>

20

<p>The “sure thing” business major these days is accounting, and to get a CPA type position and be poised to take the exam, you should be at a school that has an accredited accounting program preferably one that is internationally certified and recognized. That is a huge advantage in the job market and may even be justification for taking more loans than the average UG, but still a risk because student tend to change their minds so much. But you are eliminating the one route that pretty much guarantees a high and plentiful job situation by going to a school that doesn’t even offer you that option. Some LACs and schools without a business major have added accounting programs to their curriculum because of the added value that it gives. </p>

<p>Now if it’s business school after UG that is on your agenda, bear in mind that an MBA is very expensive and you will have to borrow nearly every bit of what it costs. So the OP is better off, in that case, to get a less expensive UG education or the loan burden is truly going to be exorbitant.</p>

<p>By all means, wait for the response to the appeal, but do start looking at what your affordable options are.</p>