I attend an extremely competitive high school where kids intentionally sabotage others to obtain higher gpas. They spend there entire days studying for school tests or SAT’s and taking part in Extracurriculars they don’t truly care about. This repeats 24/7 and it seems like parents even encourage it. Many of the students are depressed and have the personality of a robot Is this type of society good for the world?
I think you already know the answer. The challenge is how to correct it.
It’s also important to realize you are in a very small minority of people. Many high schools have most of their student body thinking about things other than college after graduation, though that is dwindling with the need for a degree. Still, few high schools are small enough to even notice other students, and many schools are moving away from using class rank, which encourages this behavior you mentioned. While these problems exist, it’s peanuts compared to other more general problems in the same area, in my opinion.
What is very interesting to me is the second part of what you mentioned, which affects many more students: the fact that high school has become an audition for college. Check the right boxes, ring the right bells, get a high GPA, take challenging courses, prep for standardized tests, find a true passion in life (please, go around and ask adults about their “true passion” and at least half will turn pale instantly, eventually trying to mentally decide if they are even happy), and if you want to get into a really good school, invent something and cure cancer.
All for what? A spot at a college where you will then, just maybe, get to take a deep breath, enjoy, and do what you want. Unless you want a good job, then you’ll need to make sure your “passion” that you’ve selected in high school is lucrative as a career, get internships, and at least to some extent keep high grades. Oh, and try to have a social life since college is “the time of your life”. But get some sleep too, your brain is still growing.
So, if you make it through that gauntlet, you get to work for the rest of your life! And just maybe you’ll be happy then, starting at age 22. Unless of course you’re going to grad school, law school, or medical school. Rinse and repeat.
Now let’s zoom out for a second. I think I just gave a very nihilistic but accurate take on the education system you find in the US, particularly for the lower-middle class and up. Notice, not once in there did I mention learning. I barely touched on social fulfillment, life experiences, anything. Of course, your education at each step should. But what does it say that all of these life goals and the path really don’t mention it?
Despite what you probably think after reading this post so far, I actually think that escaping this is very easy, and even more, have an overall positive outlook on it. It has nothing to do with the system, or any flaw in a part of the path. It’s mindset. Instead of painting with this negative brush I just used, step back. Before you do anything, ask why. Is it for future happiness or current happiness? Is it for learning or experience? Why am I doing this thing? Once you have your answer, then comes the hard part: is this enough reason to do it?
For that last question, I have personally boiled it down to this: you know how the system works, so you have to find how you can best use it to suit your needs. Bear in mind the realities of adulthood and living, but focus on finding what you enjoy and want to do (and know it’s okay to struggle to find it). That means that, for some, you may need to decide if a “Top 30” college is worth sacrificing your happiness in high school for instead of going to a “Top 60” school. What school do you really need to go to for what you need?
Personally, I had this realization around sophomore year of high school, and took a week off school to really reorganize what I was doing. Rather than pour everything I had into my classes, I strategically applied effort. Did I really care about the B- in this class? What is the lowest acceptable grade that would allow me to focus elsewhere and get more out of my learning? What is the target GPA I need for college, and if I have target X, is grade Y in class Z acceptable? It turns out, the ole “Pick 2 of Grades / Social / Sleep” is flawed - pick some of each and balance them. You don’t have to be this methodical, but I wanted to detail this to show how approach really changes the game.
I went to a school that was similar to yours minus the competitive aspect. You know how many clubs I was in? Just one. I wasn’t even in National Honor Society. I played sports because I enjoyed them, but had absolutely no pattern to them. I never once thought about how any of my EC’s would look to colleges. I did what interested me, and it ended up leading me where I enjoyed being. The college process came, and my math worked out. My GPA wasn’t good enough for a certain number of high caliber universities, but I didn’t need to be there. I’m still at a great school, doing exactly what I want and with the exact life balance I want. I was lucky enough to find things I truly enjoyed in high school, which helped, but you can do just as well even if you’re still looking in high school (or college!).
In that note, I want to close with this: http://www.manrepeller.com/2017/01/internships-are-overrated.html
Basically, as many adults will cheesily tell you, life is not a straight line for most, but more of a winding foggy path. Focus on learning about yourself, the world, and how the two fit together, and you will be able to make a path that you enjoy. If you try to follow a set path, you may struggle, as many of your depressed peers probably are starting to catch on.
I hope all of this helps - I know this is a bit of a tangent from the OP, but I think that I understand where you’re coming from. Correct me if I’m wrong. Please feel free to reach out if you need someone to discuss anything with, and I’d be happy to follow up here as well!
I think it’s the current zeitgeist. As soon as you step off that track, you see that there are so many more paths in life.
So many more paths.
They also seem a lot happier, potentially more fulfilling paths.
But parents and their children (and the schools seem to be caught up in this too) have the same sort of group-think. An apparent terror of Not Going To The Right School.
Our family got off this path awhile ago because one of my kids just couldn’t do it. Once that happened, I sat back in wonder at what weird world I’d been in, and watched the other families around me hyperventilate, nostrils quiver with fright about the slightest slip in grades, competing, racing, drugging their kids – for what?
Other than a handful of extremely “competitive” schools, the vast majority of schools are grateful to get enough students. 70% of colleges each year in the US do not fill.
- That means you can get admitted with the minimum requirements.
- Most schools offer a decent education.
- People who break the mold usually make the real changes in the world, not the people in the mold.
- Studies show that it's the person not the school that makes the real difference in how much he or she succeeds.
- Often it's the major not the school that determines your income level. Nurse anesthetists, for example, make a boatload of money. You'd never think "nursing" and "money" but hey there you go.
- And some of the "lower tier" colleges have better career outcomes (SUNY Maritime; SD Mines and Tech) than the Ivies and offer super cool programs that are really and truly interesting, and they don't suffer under that shadow of competitive-for-the-sake-of-being-competitive.
- The amazing art glass program at Centre College for example--unique. One of a kind. https://www.centre.edu/academics/majors-minors/art-studio/ You know, you're a history major who can blow glass.
- The only undergrad nanotechnology school in the country--http://www.sunycnse.com/Home.aspx
- The only glass engineering program in the country -- http://engineering.alfred.edu/undergrad/ges/
- Explosives technologies/ research at SD Mines and Tech, or New Mexico Tech where they blow up a car like every Tuesday. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cgJtVXGZLQ
There are a lot more cool programs like that out there . . . .
And then there’s the extended “gap” before college. Why rush to college? There doesn’t seem to be a reason for it. If you do your exploring and intern around the world (workaway.info; or student conservation association; or volunteer.gov; or coolworks) before college, then you don’t have the pressure of student loans, for example. And many colleges welcome “nontraditional” students with open arms. They even have special programs for them.
I advise: get off the track and discover the world while you can.
Not every high school is like this. The one my kids attend is not. I’m sure there are a handful of kids at the top of the class who are focused on gpa and ECs but the majority are completely unaware of the rat race that seems to dominate the lives of so many posters here on cc. I had no idea this level of competition existed until I started visiting this site during my oldest child’s junior year. I feel very lucky.
Few high schools are like this.
Transfer if you can.
The thing is that the school is a pipeline to the ivy league and I am going to graduate soon. But my question is how do we make a society that values education, but doesn’t overdue it to the point where learning becomes a competition. Is this just a bitter fruit of capitalism?
I think it is your environment. In my area, few people apply to Ivies, have balance in their lives, and are curious about the larger world. Get off the hamster wheel. Apply to some liberal arts colleges or Colleges that Change Lives colleges.
The right school(s) for each child, depends greatly upon each child.
For some, the Ivy+ schools (including MIT, Stanford, Chicago, CalTech, and the liberal arts equivalents) are just naturally where they belong, because they have the inner drive to accomplish what it takes to be there. Some kids really are academic superstars, exceptional athletes, or natural leaders, and they benefit greatly by being among their peers.
The kids I worry about are the ones that are pushing themselves beyond reasonable limits to get into an elite college. If the idea of working hard enough to get into an elite college repulses you rather than motivates you, and you are barely sleeping, perhaps you should set your sights a bit lower.
@Indiansuperman: Read Where you go is not who you’ll be, read Colleges that Change lives, and instead of obsessing about Ivies, think about what you want in life beside prestige.
You can’t do anything about your peers.
America’s main problem is that most kids do NOT push themselves, are content graduating with Algebra 2 as their highest math and 2 years of a foreign language, see high school as being mostly a place for socializing and practicing sports, and think of college as a 4-year party that’s due to them and that’ll somehow end with a job, realizing a bit late that they’re not ready for it and may not be able to do what they want.
(TIMMS and PISA results are quite eloquent on the achievement issue, as is Paying for the party wrt to many students’ view of college).
Considering how many top colleges have more children of the 1% than children of the 60%, I’d say the main problem isn’t how some pockets go insane with college admissions.
The problem you mention is real, but it doesn’t affect society as a whole.
you’re probably right. the way OP words the question asks for a discussion far more in-depth than what he intends. does economic prosperity lead to greater happiness? I think when comparing individuals and nations at the same specific point of time, I would say yes. I would imagine people in America are generally happier than people in Cambodia. However, I have no idea how this would be measured (maybe HDI?) and I am probably just pulling stuff out of my butt.
Regardless, OP probably just has beef with a competitive culture and if he doesn’t like it, he doesn’t have to partake in it. Hebegebe’s last sentence hits it right on the spot.
I don’t have a problem with moderate competition, but when you look at countries like Korea where from the age of 5 they study 24/7 for one test that determines there future, you can see that it leads to a culture where happiness and general enjoyment of life is diminished in exchange for success. This constant academic pursuit seems to stifle curiosity as well.
Korea has problems, but America is not even remotely comparable. BTW, I wouldn’t say that Korea’s cutthroat, stressful education system is “bad for society.”
No matter how you slice admissions, there’s far more smart kids than there are slots at the ivies+MIT+Stanford+Caltech. You can bring demand in line with supply in two ways. The possible solutions on the supply side are improve the quality of state flagships and to use online classes to expand enrollment at the top colleges. The solution on the demand side is for hiring managers to get over the credential snobbery of assuming learning only happens at the top 20 colleges in the US.
MOST hiring managers in the US, outside of specific industries, aren’t that interested in where you went to college and most don’t know USNWR rankings. They know some programs because they themselves attended, have colleagues who attended, have hired interns who performed well. But they know they can’t possibly know the thousands of colleges in the US.
They’re more interested in what internships you’ve had, if you’ve had this or that class they’ve found important for the position, what leadership experiences you’ve had, etc. Essentially, what do you bring to the table.
If it’s an industry where name-dropping matters or a pedigree is expected (IB, IR, film) it makes a difference, but in many cases it doesn’t.
Rather than prestige, what matters is how good the career center is, how connected the college is, how they use their alumni network.
State schools do very well in hiring simply because there are lots of high-quality kids in one location, which makes sending someone to the career fair more efficient for a company. Location sometimes helps, such as what happened with SJSU which is a pretty mediocre university except it’s located in the Silicon Valley and is thus heavily recruited for CS and related majors.
Societies’ emphasis on a single test is bad for society in that it’s bad for kids and has a funnel system that emphasizes rote learning, conformity, and physical resistance.
In the US, you don’t demonstrate value to a company by passing one 9-hour test, but what you’re able to do. It’s a very hands-on, experience-based culture.
It’s okay. Stay on the hamster wheel if you want. “My school is a pipeline to the ivies”
Oy.
Believe the hype that an Ivy = success = happiness.
In my mind: this is a false deity.
There is a rich world out there. Break your chains and find it.
Wander until you are lost and come back again. Be a hero. A true hero. College waits for you forever.
Even the ivies, if you’re still stuck on them.
They aren’t the miracle that most in the West believe. They can do MATH.
Shock and Aw.
- In Taiwan after school you go to a buxiban to study some more. Rote memorization. Who has time to become creative? Or to discover art or who you are or . . . will the next Harry Potter or new music genre or Nobel Prize winner come from this system?
- In China–the urban elite are well educated and compete in those international tests that freak out the West so much: OMG they’re getting ahead! But they fail to understand that the elite are wafer thin and outside of the urban areas people are poorly educated, education is expensive, and what’s available is rote memorization to prep for the Gaokao, the almighty test that gets you into the college system, IF you aren’t connected and can’t grease the palms of those who have access to the houmen or back door. If you’re from an rural area, you have few rights if you move into the city. If you’re hit by a car, you have no recourse, for example. Because you don’t live there. It’s brutal. Everyone else who can’t do the gaokao is attempting to go to a good school abroad, by sometimes taking the SAT for real but usually with the help of an SAT company that has the answers ahead of time and which prepares the essays. In the US or Britain they can learn English, get those international chops and then use family connections to tap into the SOEs (state owned enterprises that are completely intermeshed with the government) and get a good appointment where you can pull down your share of emoluments (as someone in our own administration seems to also understand more than integrity, but hey that’s just how things are done)
- in Korea, you compete compete compete compete against a single rubric of EDUCATION and BEAUTY unless your family is forward looking. It’s a tiny country where everyone knows each other and “helps each other out” if you’re well connected.
Most Westerners look at the one international test and say: wow they are doing great! But: Cheating on the test + only a thin swath actually takes the test + who cares!!! Where’s the creativity and original thought??
OP, there are many high schools out there, and most of them have a pretty healthy environment. You are lucky that you live in the US and you have many alternatives. If you have alternatives but do not seek an alternative when you are not happy, who can help you? Many other kids living in many other countries simply do not have any alternative. If they are not happy, they HAVE TO endure it. You are lucky that you still have choices.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Posts about the educational system in Korea, China, etc., the future of student visas, “crimes against humanity” and the debate on the above have nothing to do with the original post. Please keep on topic. 17 posts deleted.
If this represents actual conditions, then you might want to choose your college carefully.