<p>What to do, what to do . . . My parents say they can pay, I should go to the school that is the best "fit" for me. Not sure what that means, exactly. I don't like the big sports/frat party scene so I went for the small colleges. Accepted at Swat, Davidson, Middlebury, Macalester, and Claremont McKenna (waiting to be rejected from Harvard--I bet my friend I would be rejected and he bet I wouldn't be, so I had to apply). The whole idea of college kind of freaks me out some so I have not visited any of these places except Davidson and William and Mary. There was something about all of these colleges that seemed enticing at the time but now I don’t know. I am not sure what I will major in. I do know that it will involve Russian language as much as possible and math/science as little as possible.</p>
<p>So do I pick Swarthmore over in-state at William and Mary? The others are more or less as expensive, so that's another problem . . .</p>
<p>That’s really a decision that only you and your family can make. My daughter visited W&M and liked it a lot. At the same money, I know she would chose Swarthmore again, no questions asked. She loved it. By the same token, I always joked with her that, if we lived in Virginia, she better learn to like colonial Williamsburg and wearing funny costumes to earn a little spending money during college!</p>
<p>When you factor money into the equation, it becomes an issue for you and your parents with a financial dimension that we can’t address.</p>
<p>It’s hard to beat Middlebury when it comes to foreign languages. Middlebury has two schools in Russia and one of the best Russian programs of any small college.</p>
<p>I’ve talked with my sons about 1) being with a group of peers at your level, 2) a rigorous academic experience, and 3) a sense of personal achievement about your education that will always be part of you. Swarthmore has advantages and disadvantages about living conditions like any school, but I don’t think you’ll find a much better academic experience. I’ve always been impressed with the range of course offerings, small class sizes, and how engaging the students are. Try to find some articles from a book called “The Meaning of Swarthmore” for inspiration about how others have viewed their college experience.</p>
<p>There’s no easy way to discuss whether one school is worth more money than another. There’s an emotional component to selecting a college that isn’t measurable. That’s true for any important decision in life.</p>
<p>The peer learning that swatdad mentions is very real. It is one of the most striking things about Swarthmore and it continues after graduation. My daughter lives with a bunch of Swatties and socializes with many more in a town filled with Swat alums. She and her circle of friends have started a little informal book club where they all read some current thought-provoking book and get together once a month or whatever for a discussion. For fun.</p>
<p>The range of experiences among her friends, especially overseas travel, is pretty breathtaking.</p>
<p>It’s easy to say that every college has a writing mentor program where students read drafts of a paper and offer suggestions. But, most colleges don’t have a program that is held up as the model as Swarthmore’s program is, even in faculty reports at Amherst. Swarthmore’s writing mentors take a semester-long grad school level course in teaching writing before they start reviewing papers. It’s a service that is widely used at Swarthmore. In fact, some courses have an assigned Writing Associate and students must turn in a draft for review before completing the paper. It’s just expected that Swatties will help each other – in whatever subjects they have knack for. Right now, Swat has taken the lead with a huge Howard Hughes grant in developing formal student-run study groups in the sciences. And, that’s before we get to seminars that largely consist of students presenting paper and/or problem sets to the class. It’s a model of education that just doesn’t exist to the same degree at many schools and, even where it does exist, it’s hard to find the degree of engagement by students and faculty to make it work so well.</p>
<p>Ah but my parents have said it is not an issue. They have said it is my choice. (They made me switch schools after my freshman year and that did not go well, so I think that is why they are not telling me what to do now.)</p>
<p>The schools at which you have been accepted are all great choices. I strongly recommend a visit. My daughter learned that the school that she thought was her favorite just didn’t feel quite right when she visited. It was OK but she wasn’t excited. When we visited the school at which she is now the whole family just had a feeling that this was the place. Not all students get that sense of fit on a visit (my college roommate’s daughter had no vibes at any!). She’s closing in on the end of her first year and everything we thought about the school has been confirmed. When you visit, make sure you sit in on a class. That’s key.</p>
<p>don’t quibble over the 18 at Wm and Mary vs just over 20 at Swat…go where you academic dreams will be addressed and your heart feels happy on a social level…meet the Russian teachers at each of your top schools…in a small college you will be with them quite a bit in a concentration that specific and evaluate the immersion program frequented by each college be it joint or sponsored only by the college itself </p>
<p>I would get the email addresses of someone in your top schools who had been abroad in your language of choice. My son was abroad in a Duke Davidson joint program. The Davidson students were required to stay longer and had more rigorous standards for majoring in that language…and greatly impressed my Duke son. That program was brilliantly run with incredible highly competent and talented teachers abroad. A true highlight of my son’s education. Each of these colleges has their own pathways and alliances for immersion in language experiences. Explore specifics is my point, and go with your social happiness fit as well.</p>
<p>As Virginians…we love Wm and Mary, too and love their culture. But keep in mind that Swat has resources they can commit to your final goals as a student without asking the General Assembly for cash or permission. Swat has some very innovative options for student proposed ventures in academia and the resources to back you up.</p>
<p>William and Mary was one of my daughters top choices as well. In fact, until she actually visited the schools, it was her top choice. However, she visited Swarthmore and W & M several times. In the end, she picked Swarthmore. She chose Swarthmore for many reasons, but a few were: the student body at Swat(she just clicked with them better), the faculty (she sat in on classes at both schools and again - she just clicked as Swat), the location (having a major city right there is a huge advantage). We love Williamsburg, but to be honest, the town basically shuts down after about 9:30pm (at least the Historic part where we stayed did) That is not to say the William and Mary is not a fabulous school - it is. My daughter just felt Swarthmore was a better fit for her. She has not regretted the decision one bit as she is completely in love with Swarthmore!</p>
<p>You want to major in Russian with as little science as possible?</p>
<p>Did you also get into MIDD?</p>
<p>Then what the heck are your fishing around Swarthmore for?</p>
<p>Middlebury is your only LAC choice, period.</p>
<p>You are going to get clobbered at Swarthmore, though I respect the school very much. If you do not desire a major University with an extensive language program, only MIDD is for you.</p>
<p>Insofar as you not drinking, no big deal!</p>
<p>Claremont McKenna should also be ruled out, especially if your purported major is Russian. </p>
<p>I attend Williams College, but with hesitation I highly recommend and urge you to consider Middlebury.</p>
<p>Please call the language department there and talk to them.</p>
<p>No offense, but you would have to have rocks in your head to choose Middlebury over Swarthmore. The difference in financial resources is enormous.</p>
<p>Middlebury’s budget has been out of balance for years, even during the boom years. This year was supposed to be the year they finally balanced a budget. So much for that idea. Not a good situation to be in going into a period of severe budget pressure.</p>
<p>I disagree with you, interesteddad. If a student fits more at Middlebury than at Swarthmore, then, as long as finances aren’t too big a problem, the student should go to Middlebury. </p>
<p>RedFish: You mentioned something about studying Russian. Even though I go to Swarthmore, I can say, Swarthmore is no match against Middlebury when it comes to languages.</p>
<p>The poster didn’t even mention Middlebury. The question was between Swarthmore and William & Mary with in-state tuition. Obviously, if the cost were the same, Swarthmore would be a no-brainer, but the cost is not the same, so that’s a decision the family has to make.</p>
<p>Don’t confuse Middlebury’s profit center summer language schools with its college offerings. That would be like saying Swarthmore specializes in preparing students for professional soccer because they have a soccer camp during the summer. Middlebury (the college) offers one more language than Swarthmore does (Italian). Otherwise, Swarthmore holds its own on the language front, especially considering that Middlebury has to teach almost double the number of students.</p>
<p>You may be surprised to learn that Swarthmore is the sixth highest per graduate producer of future PhDs in languages and linguistics in the United States. Middlebury is the 25th highest. I would not say that languages are a particular specialty of Swarthmore, but the language programs hold their own quite nicely.</p>
<p>Fit is all well and good in normal times and, if you want a big NESCAC jock/drinking school, Middlebury would have been a good choice. However, Middlebury has very serious financial issues right now. They rolled the dice on a big expansion of enrollment and their budget has been out of balance even during the boom years. Students who will be in college over the next four years are going to be signficantly impacted by the budget cutting. For example, Middlebury is increasing enrollment by another 100 students. Bye-bye student/faculty ratio.</p>
<p>The poster did say that he/she got into Middlebury, and you mentioned Middlebury in your previous post, in response to what you said about Swarthmore, in your mind, being obviously better than Middlebury.</p>
<p>Is Swarthmore a no-brainer over William & Mary? I think it’s really about where the students fit. There are probably many very intelligent people who would prefer to attend William & Mary over Swarthmore. </p>
<p>I don’t know if that soccer camp analogy really works here. Middlebury is famous for its language programs, not just its summer language schools. I’m not saying that studying languages is bad here, but I think there are more opportunities at Middlebury than at Swarthmore. </p>
<p>There are plenty of schools that are increasing enrollment. Yale is, for example. But you can’t breezily say that Yale’s (or Middlebury’s) undergraduates will lose attention from professors because of that. Even if Middlebury increased enrollment it would still be a small college. Plus, Middlebury and all the other colleges that are increasing enrollment will probably try to find more professors to teach. I find your statement “Bye-bye student/faculty ratio” absurd.</p>
<p>Interesteddad: where did you read that Middlebury was increasing students by 100? Amherst by 180, yes. Bowdoin by 50, but Middlebury is not increasing enrollment.</p>
<p>And RedFish or others should go ahead and compare foreign languages: Ph.D. production is not meaningful when assessing foreign language resources, as so many Middlebury students in economics, politics, art history, philosophy, and more take beyond the 3rd level of college foreign languages, and can do so because the number of FTE is disproportionately larger than just about any liberal arts college. And the summer programs are integrated with and related to the undergraduate experience: 150 of the 1400 or so summer students in the intensive program are Middlebury rising juniors preparing to study abroad, and the curricula of the depts at Middlebury need to articulate with the Language Schools. Most of Middlebury’s foreign language depts are rated at the top of all undergraduate FL programs.</p>
<p>And I doubt the financial situation at Middlebury is that much different from say Amherst, or Williams, or most other top LACs. Middlebury has just been more public than other colleges with its current situation, and, while perhaps different from how it operated in the past, the information can give prospective students and their parents a sense of what is likely to be cut in the next few years. Read their website (there is a link on the front page of the College’s website to info on their financial challenges).</p>
<p>It may only be 50 students. The board approved an increase in targeted enrollment to 2400. Now, here’s the catch. They “over-enrolled” the last couple of years so they are just making the over-enrollment and additional revenue official.</p>
<p>Middlebury is in a tougher spot financially than either Williams or Swarthmore. Swarthmore is only spending 4.3% of endowment this year, so they have some room to increase that percentage and cushion the hit. Middlebury is spending nearly half again as much at 6.1%. So even without the market crash, they were out of financial balance. </p>
<p>Talk to me about Middlebury being more “public” with their finances when they put their audited financial statements on the website like ALL other top colleges do.</p>
<p>A lot of students come to Swarthmore thinking, “I’m in,
it’s over.” But it’s actually only beginning After a couple of weeks
they’re “up to their necks” in the work. It’s pretty relentless,
I think that’s what the poster above may be referring to. Some
people take to that, others crack. No matter which one of these
colleges you pick, if you do well there, you will have ample
opportunities.</p>
<p>As for the considerations of various colleges financial situations,
I don’t think that should concern you, all these places are doing fine
and will be around for quite awhile to come.</p>