Is the CSU Tiered Like the UC System?

College Search & Selection
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<p>Is the CSU Tiered Like the UC System?</p>

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<p>Public colleges & universities in California are divided into 3 tiers:
(1) The U.C. system consists of 10 research-oriented universities that offer degrees up through the PhD as well as professional degrees in business, medicine, law, etc. These are all high-powered research universities...
(2) The C.S.U. system consists of 27 (or so) universities that tend to be a little more practical/pre-professional in focus... they generally do NOT grant PhDs (although a few do in a few fields)... they focus on BA/BS degrees as well as many, many terminal MA/MS programs and credentials/certificates in professional-oriented programs...
(3) The community college system... these offer 2 year AA degrees... many of them have transfer agreements with nearby CSU and UC campuses... this is a very cheap, great way for late-bloomers to get up to speed and possibly transfer to a 4-year degree granting institution.</p>

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<p>I think the OP is asking whether the CSU campuses can be ranked into top, middle, and bottom tiers as the UCs commonly are.</p>

<p>Using 2005 acceptance rates, I think you can generate some rough tiers:</p>

<p>Top Tier
Long Beach - 38%
San Marcos - 42%*
SLO - 44%
San Diego - 44%
Channel Islands - 44%*</p>

<p>Second Tier
Sonoma - 59%
Fullerton - 60%
Northridge - 62%
Fresno - 64%
San Francisco - 66%</p>

<p>Third
Pomona - 71%
Chico - 75%</p>

<p>Still taking applications (as of April 1st) and thus final numbers are not available:</p>

<p>Bakersfield, Dominguez Hills, East Bay, Humboldt, Los Angeles, Matime Academy, Monterey Bay, Sacramento, San Bernadino, Stanislaus.</p>

<ul>
<li>I question whether San Marcos and Channel Islands are actually top tier in terms of quality. They are both new campuses with small numbers of openings, making it easier to get a lower acceptance rate, plus San Marcos benefits from being a redirect campus for impacted programs at San Diego State.</li>
</ul>

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<p>acceptance rate doesnt necessarily correlate with the quality of the school. cal poly pomona and csu chico are in the better bunch of the CSUs. </p>

<p>here are the impacted CSUs: chico, fullerton, long beach, pomona, san diego, san marcos, SLO, and sonoma state</p>

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<p>We've had a few discussions about this and the top five seem to be SLO, San diego, long beach, pomona, and chico. These are the the only CSU's that really compete with UC's for students.</p>

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<p>Why is long beach top tier??? The average SAT is not even 1000.....</p>

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<p>well, i dont know if long beach is top tier or not, but it is definately IMPACTED.</p>

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<p>placing cal poly pomona and chico state in the bottom tier is simply hilarious and shows how using only one piece of information skews things. channel islands and san marcos have highly selective admissions percentages because they are immature campuses that like UC Merced are still standing up as academic units and can handle only a highly limited number of applicants. the list of impacted programs is a better indicator particularly given the fact that cal poly has the most impacted programs.</p>

<p>regarding long beach state, potential students in the heavily populated western los angeles county corridor have two CSU choices, beach and dominquez hills and remember most CSU students are commuters who need a school close to home. the latter campus at DH has various unaccredited programs such as business, sits next to oil derricks, and is frequently listed as 23d in rank in the 23-campus system. beach, blessed with a strong visionary president, has capitalized on this and has moved swiftly from a mid-tier to a top-tier CSU joining the two cal polys, san diego, and chico.</p>

<p>geography clearly plays a role here. bad locations rarely attract good students, particularly in california. you don't see applicants knocking down the walls at places like bakersfield, stanislaus, san bernardino or dominguez hills no more so than at UC Riverside or Merced.</p>

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<p>You guys have all overlooked San Jose State. It's located in the heart of Silicon Valley. It has a pretty good engineering program. Also a lot of the students there are hardworking international students.</p>

<ol>
<li>SLO</li>
<li>Pomona</li>
<li>San Diego State/San Jose State</li>
<li>San Fransico State
The rest I don't know.</li>
</ol>

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<p>What is Loma Linda? My dermatologist went there and I was under the impression that it was part of the Calif. public uni. system?</p>

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<p>Loma Linda is a private school.</p>

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<p>Kfc has it right: selectivity is not always an indication of quality. </p>

<p>I do wish that everyone would stop saying "but it's really hard to get into college XYZ so it MUST be a good school." That argument doesn't always hold water, especially when you're talking about large public universities that get large number of applications simply because they're located in a part of the state that many college aged kids would like to live.</p>

<p>For overall academic quality, I'd personally pick Cal Poly SLO and Humboldt. BUT there are many other good choices in the Cal State system, depending on the size of school you prefer, what you hope to study, and the type of atmosphere you're looking for. It really depends on which school is the best fit for you --- some people would be miserable at Cal Poly SLO, but get a great education at Monterrey Bay. </p>

<p>I think each and every Cal State has something worthwhile to offer depending on what you're looking for, so if I was looking at the Cal State System, I'd very carefully research each school to see where my needs would be best served, and then go from there.</p>

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<p>TOP TIER (in descending order) CSU UNIVERSITIES</p>

<ol>
<li> SLO</li>
<li> san diego state</li>
<li> pomona</li>
<li> long beach state</li>
<li> chico state</li>
<li> san jose state</li>
<li> sonoma state</li>
</ol>

<p>MIDDLE TIER</p>

<ol>
<li> fullerton</li>
<li> maritime academy (hard to place...highly specialized)</li>
<li> san francisco state</li>
<li> humboldt state</li>
<li> san marcos</li>
<li> northridge</li>
<li> channel islands</li>
<li> fresno</li>
<li> monterey bay</li>
</ol>

<p>BOTTOM TIER</p>

<ol>
<li> sacramento</li>
<li> los angeles</li>
<li> san bernardino</li>
<li> east bay</li>
<li> bakersfield</li>
<li> stanislaus</li>
<li> dominguez hills</li>
</ol>

<p>please remember, this is NOT an assessment of individual programs but rather an examination of academic programs in all areas, strength of faculty, selectivity over student admissions, national and regional rankings, accreditation reports, and many other factors.</p>

<p>am rather certain this will enliven the discussion, particularly from those with links to middle and bottom tier schools. i have been a professor in both the top and middle tiers and the differences are noteworthy.</p>

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<p>In response to another similar query a few weeks back I did a quick analysis of the relative academic qualifications of the freshmen enrolling in the different CSU's for ranking purposes. I used the following formula based on information provided by the various schools in their common data set reports: 25th% SAT plus 75th% SAT plus GPA * 1000 for enrolled freshman most recent year - divided by 50 to give an index in the 100 - 140 range. </p>

<p>Some results:</p>

<p>Cal Poly SLO - 124
SDSU - 113
CSU Long Beach - 109
Chico and Cal Poly Pomona - 107
CSU Fresno - 103
SJSU - 102
CSU San Bernardino - 102</p>

<p>For comparison's sake, I calculate UC Riverside at 111, UC Santa Cruz at 115, UC Santa Barbara, Davis and Irvine all around 120. Berkeley, UCLA, Stanford and Ivy League schools score between 134 and 137. But the previous posters are both right; the perceived quality of different CSU's is driven largely by the quality of individual programs and departments. Cal Poly SLO's meteoric rise in status has been driven largely by its engineering department; SDSU is known for business, etc. San Jose State ranks low in my calculation (102) but may very well be outstanding in certain fields. Frankly, in terms of "tiers" I'd say you have Cal Poly SLO and then everyone else.</p>

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<p>generally, people will tend to choose a CSU based on location more than anything, unless they have a specialized major.
I would hazard a guess that about 1/3 of my class this year is going to a CSU. The most popular ones by far are san diego, long beach, sonoma, chico, and san francisco.</p>

<p>SLO is unique because you have to choose a major before you even start, so this is unpopular with some.. but on teh otehr hand, its definitely by far the most respected CSU campus. </p>

<p>Ive never heard too much about cal poly pomona, its not too well known or respected.. not comparable at all to SLO. </p>

<p>There is some difference in quality according to major (for example, i know SF state's broadcasting school is one of the best in the state, and has somewhat of a nat'l rep)</p>

<p>in terms of campus, Sonoma state probably has the nicest one.</p>

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<p>kluge,
have seen your data before and subscribe to many of your points with one caveat. CSUs must follow a chancellor's mandate that requires low level admissions within that CSU's "service area," which typically serves a radius of some miles around the campus. when you have a more affluent "area" such as sonoma you serve higher achieving students. therefore, a place like sonoma benefits. when you have a less affluent area like pomona your data gets skewed downward. but to analyze your data completely your deck must include all 23 campuses. can you provide? great input!</p>

<p>city, you make observations based upon personal observations which add little to the discourse. for example, to state that sonoma has the nicest campus presupposes that you have personally inspected all 23. is this true? to state that sf state has a broadcasting school is false. it has a R/TV/Film department (a much smaller unit)--a decent one, to be sure, but hardly on par nationally as you suggest with USC, NYU, Syracuse, or several dozen other programs far more distinguished. further, to state that cal poly pomona is "not too well known or respected" is ludicrous. by whom? you? you might ask students in pomona's collins school, for example, where they rank not in the CSU but in the entire nation. hint: #2 and second only to cornell university of the ivy league. or how about architecture which has an eight per cent accept rate wherein the average high school admit GPA is above 3.9? even by kluge's incomplete data with a bad neighborhood service area it still ranks fourth in the system.</p>

<p>where do you place bakersfield or dominguez hills or east bay if pomona is "not well known or respected?" or dare we ask?</p>

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<p>Posted by TheCity</p>

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<p>I'd actually say price is as big, or bigger factor.....what do you think?</p>

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<p>drj, Would you care to reveal which schools you've taught at? I'd be interested to know.</p>

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<p>quite a few, among them two universities in the big ten, one in the big 12, a selective private university, and several in the cal state system. the reason i take issue with the city is very few people have seen all 23 campuses other than chancellor reed and his staff. beauty of course is in the eye of the beholder. i personally like university of pacific among those in this state for that. the ranking of campuses is challenging and is based upon considerable input from colleagues around the state, reports in the press, the chancellor's office, and yes, even good input like that from kluge. the tough call is when you get a specialized school like the maritime academy which is not comprehensive. great for what it does but how to compare? that said, it is very hard not to place SLO on top. it is such a special place, and yes, i have taught there.</p>

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<p>I do wish that everyone would stop saying "but it's really hard to get into college XYZ so it MUST be a good school." That argument doesn't always hold water....<<</p>

<p>I agree that selectivity doesn't always tell something about quality, but I think that LACK of selectivity often does. A school with a very high acceptance rate may have decent teachers, but you've got to ask yourself questions about the quality of the students. If pretty much everyone who applies gets in, if you need little more than a pulse and enough money to cover the application fee to get accepted to a given school, then many of your classmates are going to be people who couldn't get in anywhere else.</p>