<p>Princeton > UPenn</p>
<p>however,</p>
<p>Wharton > Princeton</p>
<p>RML, ha!..there are some people in the Princeton departments of Physics, Math, Philosophy, Economics, History and Political Science that would not agree with you on this.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I know I know. In fact, they can’t be really compared - apply and orange. It’s like comparing Olin to Harvard or Julliard to Yale. But averaging the quality and prestige of education they both provide, Wharton would come out better. There are degrees from Princeton that’s less popular to employers. A Wharton degree is popular and always a priority to most employers.</p>
<p>In short, I’m viewing on the combined quality and popularity of the degree one can get from these schools.</p>
<p>Yes, certain schools are entrenched in our culture. Tradition remains strong, and HYP are the quintessence of the ivy league schools, because they were founded FIRST. I don’t question that other schools have their special places (Wharton for business stuff- although their econ program is ranked lower, Stanford/MIT/Caltech for engineering, Juilliard for the arts), but they mostly occupy a niche. Sure, you may get a better undergraduate education at Columbia than at Harvard, but it doesn’t matter because Harvard has been associated with higher education since pop culture started. It doesn’t matter that Yale isn’t ranked particularly high in economics/business at a time when we need to fix our economy, Harvard isn’t ranked high in engineering when our society is on the cutting edge of technology, Princeton doesn’t have professional schools when we need to train doctors and lawyers. But that doesn’t mean that perceptions of these schools will drastically alter in the future. HYP have occupied the same field-specific rankings, along with their special place in higher education for a LONG time. For example, they have ALWAYS ranked behind MIT in engineering since MIT was founded. Ultimately, a school’s name and prestige depend on how strong its roots are in our civilization, perceptions, traditions (ivy league), etc. Ironically, people who shun HYP etc for being elitist only draw more attention to them, further reinforcing their place in our society.</p>
<p>Wharton greater than Princeton . . .lol. To whom? Employers? Business schools? Academics?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>“Employers” aren’t some monolithic group of people, you know.</p>
<p>^ Bottom line: People attend school to become marketable regardless of which degree/major. </p>
<p>And I doubt the people in the academe would not look Wharton very, very highly. </p>
<p>The Wharton name is globally prestigious and very well respected too. You can’t talk about business schools without mentioning Wharton. You can always talk about prestigious universities without Princeton. In fact, Princeton is hardly mentioned in topics about top universities - in a global scale. When you ask a random of people around the world to list the world’s top 5 universities, I doubt if Princeton would be mentioned more frequently as its peer schools. I even doubt if it would even be mentioned at all. I surmise everyone would start throwing the more prestigious names such as Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, Stanford or Yale, but not so much Princeton definitely. Perhaps both Caltech and Berkeley would even beat Princeton when it comes to top universities globally.</p>
<p>^hold on there, RML, Wharton is still part of Penn. Princeton is the most prestigious undergraduate school in the world. Feelin’ the heat from your future Princeton competitors for ibanking jobs, huh?
Anyway, only a select people know what Wharton is. Everyone knows what Princeton is. </p>
<p>I could technically take out the Woody Woo school at Princeton and say that it is MUCH more prestigious than any of Penn’s IR schools (which it is). However, no one uses Woody Woo @ Princeton to compare to other schools because the name Princeton in itself is enough comparison.</p>
<p>Graduate school wise, look at Princeton’s ranking in economics (1) and look at Penn’s ranking in economics (9) Source: US News & World Report. You’d think that such a top school with a Wharton/business influence would at least make top 3 in econ. And news flash. Penn(and Cornell) is the ONLY ivy league with an undergrad business program, so comparing pre-business to other schools’ programs like economics, finance, etc is a bit like comparing apples to oranges</p>
<p>Actually, the top five global universities mentioned are usually Oxford Cambridge Harvard Yale Princeton. Put your Princeton prejudice aside please. I can’t believe I’m even defending Princeton, when I really don’t need to do so.</p>
<p>I can see people’s reasons for trying to elevate their schools to high status, but really, try not to sound ridiculous by putting the obviously more “recognized” schools down.</p>
<p>
Only a Princetonian would make such a [mis]statement. Let’s all have a collective eyeroll.</p>
<p>Well, excuse my pretenses.</p>
<p>Notice that this is the ranking for best COLLEGES, ie undergraduate school. Many people use this as the overall school ranking, but really, that is not the case. </p>
<p>[National</a> Universities Rankings - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-universities-rankings]National”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-universities-rankings)</p>
<p>There is a reason why US news breaks its rankings into undergrad and grad programs. You don’t pick a college to go as a undergrad and marvel at its grad programs. Harvard undergrads are not Harvard MBAs.</p>
<p>
I think Cambridge is. :D</p>
<p>Seriously, Harvard is the most prestigious undergraduate school in the world. And globally, Stanford is more prestigious than Princeton.</p>
<p>
That’s why on post #123 I said Princeton is superior to UPenn. But when it comes to employment prospects and career after graduation, I think going to Wharton would be better. I think that in banking and finance industry, only Harvard can compete with Wharton.</p>
<p>I disagree. Princeton is much more prestigious than Stanford. Stanford law and Stanford business are obviously better than Princeton, because Princeton doesn’t have those. Yikes.</p>
<p>I choose Princeton after getting into HYMS too for good reason ;). As we’re on this topic, 1 person from my senior class intended to go to Stanford, got accepted by Princeton wait-list, and is coming to school with me. I’m so psyched! A lot of people get into Stanford from my hs, but not HYP.</p>
<p>Like, I’d love to go to HYSM, Penn for grad school, simply because they have professional programs, and because I don’t want to stay at any school for both undergrad and grad. Grad schools have a place. </p>
<p>But as an undergrad, I couldn’t care less about graduate/professional programs because they simply do not concern me. Instead (for example) I go to the best undergraduate school (Princeton) to get the BEST college education, collaboration with professors in order to write my senior thesis, and this culminates in a paved route to the best professional schools. </p>
<p>Take for example, the princeton thesis that is required of all undergraduates. You are GUARANTEED the chance to work with a renown professor to write something that contributes somewhat to knowledge in a particular field. Grad schools will love this (if you take your thesis seriously, and don’t waste your opportunities).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I wish I can believe this. </p>
<p>But really, mate. For undergraduate education, there is no distinction between the two schools. But as a whole, Stanford has got the more prestigious name.</p>
<p>This gives an example for the quality of princeton undergraduate education. It is a brochure for just a certificate program, NOT even a major. In fact, it’s common for students to pursue multiple certificates. Look at what those kids are doing. Look at the future plans of applied math certificate students on page 4. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.pacm.princeton.edu/newsletter/pacm_may09.pdf[/url]”>http://www.pacm.princeton.edu/newsletter/pacm_may09.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.pacm.princeton.edu/newsletter/spring10.pdf[/url]”>http://www.pacm.princeton.edu/newsletter/spring10.pdf</a></p>
<p>You will not see this spectacular focus on undergraduates on any other school, not HYMS. </p>
<p>Going back to the prestige argument, It is Harvard, Yale Princeton. HYP. Based on the quality of the school’s grad programs, this may be different. </p>
<p>But since when has everything been based on merit? Prestigious schools are like name brand clothing. Sure, they rip after a few wash cycles, and regular cotton shirts will last longer, but people are status chasers. My beloved AP Bio teacher, in response to my college choice: “Wow, Princeton, icalc? That’s pretty high status. Whoa”</p>
<p>For those concerned about “honest” rankings, if you want a ranking solely based on undergraduate success, check out the forbes list: <a href=“Forbes List Directory”>Forbes List Directory. For goodness sake, it’s Forbes. </p>
<p>The first thing many of you will do is gasp at this list because West Point is #1, and Williams beat Harvard. But guess what? West point’s graduates are insanely successful. The vast majority of them end up working in government, foreign affairs, sciences, politics. These professions all produce high income, and make a person powerful. Forbes caters to the successful, power hungry crowd.</p>
<p>Look at #3, Caltech. Undergrads literally go there to be PURE scientists making the next big discoveries while working with Nobel Laureates. There are almost more nobel winners there than there are students! When they put THAT much dedication in a specific field, the sciences, they are bound to be successful. I believe, along with many others, that Caltech grads trump MIT grads. In fact, look at the placement of Caltech grads. Caltech may have been under the radar, but it is remarkable, unique, and very small.</p>
<p>
I’ve always been exceedingly skeptical of such claims. Neither Harvard nor Princeton accepts transfers, and the number of transfers Yale and Stanford accept is quite small. Who has the ability to compare? People just go by hearsay, which tends to be rubbish.</p>
<p>Let’s look at the numbers.</p>
<p>Harvard
[ul][<em>]Undergrad A&S: 6655
[</em>]Grad A&S: 3198
[li]Undergrad-grad ratio: 2.08:1[/ul]</p>[/li]
<p>Yale
[ul][<em>]Undergrad A&S: 5275
[</em>]Grad A&S: 2572
[li]Undergrad-grad ratio: 2.05:1[/ul]</p>[/li]
<p>Princeton
[ul][<em>]Undergrad A&S: 5044
[</em>]Grad A&S: 2479
[li]Undergrad-grad ratio: 2.03:1[/ul]</p>[/li]
<p>Stanford
[ul][<em>]Undergrad A&S: 6100
[</em>]Grad A&S: 2378
[li]Undergrad-grad ratio: 2.57:1[/ul]</p>[/li]
<p>By the numbers, there is not the slightest bit of difference in undergraduate focus between Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. Stanford, on the other hand, leans slightly more towards undergraduate education.</p>
<p>Princeton requires a thesis, true. Does anyone really think undergraduate research is lacking at the other schools, however? Or that undergraduate focus is lacking at the others? Consider post-graduate fellowship production.</p>
<p>Rhodes 1989-2008
1 Harvard 86
2 Yale 46
3 Princeton 30
4 Stanford 25</p>
<p>Marshall 1954-2009
1 Harvard 252
2 Princeton 119
3 Yale 107
4 Stanford 79</p>
<p>Truman 1977-2008
1 Harvard 66
2 Stanford 57
3 Yale 54
4 Duke 39
5 Brown 33
6 Princeton 30</p>
<p>NSF 1993-2008
1 Harvard 717
2 MIT 679
3 Stanford 457
4 Princeton 374
5 Cornell 350
6 Yale 278</p>
<p>Fulbright 1992-2007
1 Harvard 477
2 Yale 378
3 Columbia 330
4 Stanford 280
5 Chicago 276
6 Brown 268
7 Princeton 267</p>
<p>Or law production (formula is # of law students / arts & sciences enrollment x 10,000):</p>
<p>Harvard Law
- Harvard 334.8
- Yale 209.5
- Stanford 128.8
- Princeton 127.2</p>
<p>Yale Law
- Yale 157.6
- Harvard 117.2
- Stanford 61.5
- Williams 57.1
- Princeton 53.5</p>
<p>One university - and only one - is consistently #1 in these lists. If it ignores its undergrads and they do this well, then perhaps more universities should adopt that approach. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Princeton has the smallest class size :)</p>
<h1>of degree seeking undergraduates, from college board:</h1>
<p>Princeton: 5,029
Harvard: 6,655
Yale: 5,258
Stanford: 6564</p>
<p>So, to be unbiased, those scholars should be in percentages.</p>
<p>RML, you seem to confuse the prestige of Wharton Graduate business school around the world with that of Wharton undergrad, which is what we are discussing here.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Oh joys, people munching off of their schools’ grad programs again!
While we’re on the topic let’s talk about all the ways in which Penn’s undergrad program is superior to Princeton’s</p>
<p>Penn business>Princeton business (duh, Pton doesn’t have business for undergrad, or grad)</p>
<p>umm…can someone else me brainstorm some more? No? <em>gasp</em></p>
<p>warble, wow…great stuff…using those undergraduate/graduate ratios seems to make sense, doesn’t it?</p>
<p>has it ever occurred to you that the absolute size if the undergraduate school has to be taken into consideration also?</p>
<p>good try though</p>
<p>here, lets take a look to see if your theories work with UCSB:</p>
<p>UCSB
undergraduate students = 19,796
graduate students = 3,054
ungrad/grad ratio = 6.48x</p>
<p>oops!</p>
<p>(also, check your A&S figures, they seem to be a little off for some schools)</p>
<p>
</p>