<p>I love this thread. From the serious to the silly!</p>
<p>Soozievt, when you wonder if a post will hurt people’s feelings, then maybe you should stop right there… The reason for any one school being on the list was not part of the discussion. It was about competitiveness arising from popularity (number of students applying), That’s it. It was not a top ten list of best schools, but a great discussion for parents pondering schools and the puzzle of the admissions process for MT’s. But thanks for your input.</p>
<p>Okay, people really need to get over being so defensive. I have a kid at a school that is not in anybody’s top ten. Yes, she would have loved to have been accepted into a top ten program. She also realizes that she was not anywhere close to that level of trained mostly because as a child she did more working than training. Not one acting class, ever. Not a lot of dance, either. Just talent. Now, she is happy to be learning at the school she is in and for many reasons is quite satisfied. But, she knows the difference. She has some catching up to do. Academic reputation also mattered to her quite a bit which makes the list of desirable programs pretty short, actually. Pretending they are all the same is just silly, sometimes.</p>
<p>@CTownMom - Maybe you want to use the edit button before the time is up… If you re-read soozievt’s post she talks about how much she admires the programs. My impression of what she is saying (please correct me if I am wrong @soozievt) is the question of did these schools show up in THIS set of data b/c they are often discussed on this forum, but may not be as well known nationally…so if you are a student NOT a part of the CC community, would you be AS likely to audition for those schools. Seems a fair question…</p>
<p>CTownMom, I am sorry if you or anyone else felt offended. I completely realize that this is NOT a list of top ten best schools and was trying to discuss it all in context. Just like EmsDad mentioned some caveats about the list, I was picking up on similar analysis of it. There is always a risk of naming schools and your post reflects that risk. I will reiterate that I recommend the schools that I named ALL THE TIME to advisees and so I do champion those schools. I was trying to comment on the “data” itself. I don’t think I would be the only person who believes certain BFA programs are considered more “competitive” to get into than others, and that numbers don’t tell the whole story. And just because a school is more renowned or competitive to get into, doesn’t make it “better.” </p>
<p>To say that CMU and CCM are more competitive to get into than Point Park or Rider might offend some, but I think many would agree with that statement. Point Park and Rider might appear on the “applied” list for a great number of kids and thus be high on this list of “popularity” and for some it is a first choice school (these are fabulous programs!) and of some, they are on the list to balance out their more competitive schools on their list, which everyone must do. It is akin to saying that a kid from Boston who applies to Harvard may also apply to their state U (UMass) and UMass would be high on a list of “popularity” due to the numbers applying, perhaps as high as Harvard, but Harvard is more selective and harder to get into. I don’t see why this should be offensive to those who attend UMass, because I think it is a well founded statement. </p>
<p>But, apparently such statements might hurt someone who attends or has a kid at the named school (use UMass in this other example). I suppose by analyzing these things, someone (perhaps yourself) feels offended. For that, I am sorry.</p>
<p>I will add that my D’s school, NYU/Tisch, is 17th on this list. It doesn’t bother me at all. I could do some analysis of that too. One is all the caveats EmsDad mentioned such as this small sampling of CCers who were in this audition cycle. I imagine as well, that those who don’t have the academic profile for NYU, may not apply. As well, the university is quite expensive, knocking it off many people’s list for that reason alone. Some MT applicants are hoping for very little academics in college and so NYU would not be a good fit for such kids. NYU would not even appeal to many kids due to it having no campus, being in the city, being a large school, etc. </p>
<p>CC itself is a small and self-selecting group of the total BFA MT pool. These numbers are fun and give us all a piece of information we can take or leave. School choice is as individual as anything can be and it says nothing about the talent of the person applying or their fitness for this industry. There are as many paths as there are kids. There is no reason for anyone to be offended or defensive about the path their kid is on, right!?</p>
<p>College choice is truly all about fit. There is no “best” school. The best school is the one that fits what you are looking for and where you will thrive. No school is a ticket to success. Only the individual him/herself can succeed. As we all know, those who have succeeded in theater come from a wide array of colleges and no college at all. </p>
<p>What appeals to one kid doesn’t appeal to another. My kid loved her first choice school, NYU/Tisch, but I would be the first to say it is not “the best” college and it is not for all people.</p>
<p>Using school names sometimes offends some people and thus many of us dance around naming schools and speak in generalities. I surely don’t mean to offend anyone and if I have, again, I am sorry.</p>
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<p>I did not see your post, “too wonderful” when I posted today. But yes, my second post late last night on this thread was trying to make that point and I gave examples. I recommend the schools I named to my advisees all the time and have had many apply in fact. But I’ll be the first to tell you that the first I ever learned of the MT programs at Otterbein and at Coastal Carolina (two schools I gave as examples of a “CC effect”) were right here on CC’s MT Forum a number of years ago. Back when my kid applied 9 cycles ago, I had not heard of these programs and did not know any kids who had applied to them (and my D had friends from around the country apply and get admitted to BFA in MT programs). Both schools have their program directors as active participants on this forum, as well as parents and student reps. I think this is VERY wise of them and has in fact, resulted in more applicants, particularly those who read CC’s MT Forum!</p>
<p>To me, this list really hammers home how individual school choice is. I look at the list and also have to drop down to #17 to find my daughter’s school. What is more interesting than that is that if I look above her school on the list, there are only 2 other schools that she even applied to. I guess that means with just a few exceptions, the popular in CC path was not our path. I’m good with that.</p>
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<p>That’s a good point, halflokum! </p>
<p>CCM is the most popular in terms of applicants on this forum in this cycle. Suffice it to say (hope THIS is indeed OK to say?), CCM is one of the most competitive and well known programs in the MT field. BUT, my D did not apply to CCM as she did not feel it was a good fit for her. Her best MT friend did apply and attend. </p>
<p>I can’t emphasize enough that building a college list is a very individual process and the same list should not fit all people. A lot of care and time should be put into building a college list that fits the applicant in many respects…including their academic qualifications, artistic skill set, the selectivity of the college, and their own college selection criteria (what they want in a college). </p>
<p>You could also argue that schools that are not “popular” but that offer excellent training and career opportunities (my S’s school is #25 on this list, BTW, and he is making great progress towards being a working actor) are worth pursuing. I mean, if you were a stock picker, you’d say that CCM and CMU are blue chips, but schools further down the list might be undervalued. </p>
<p>My D will also be going to NYU in the fall- and did not apply to 11 of the programs rated more “popular” in terms of auditions. And though she did audition to the #1 and #7 most popularly rated (CCM and BW) on the list…they were not “top choice” for her- she did them early to get practice/feedback etc. Doesn’t make the programs themselves any less impressive, or the kids who ARE going there less talented. So how does that change data? There is no one path- find yours</p>
<p>Just got an email from OCU with a link to Playbill and its list of Tony-nominated actors and where they went to school. Plenty of evidence for the usual suspects on Emsdad’s list, but also schools schools that are not on CC’s radar, as well as actors that are not attributed to ANY school. Hmmm. . . What could be the meaning of this?
<a href=“http://www.playbill.com/news/article/190577-Schools-of-the-Stars-Where-the-2014-Tony-Nominees-Went-to-College-The-Actors-and-Actresses”>http://www.playbill.com/news/article/190577-Schools-of-the-Stars-Where-the-2014-Tony-Nominees-Went-to-College-The-Actors-and-Actresses</a></p>
<p>I love this one (watch that big third step): Brian J. Smith (The Glass Menagerie): Collin County Community College, Stephens College and The Juilliard School </p>
<p>He was brilliant in Glass Menagerie, too, completely reinvented the Gentleman Caller. </p>
<p>Yay Tony Shaloub and the University of Southern Maine! Son’s first acceptance, offered a lot of scholarship money and … son is going to Otterbein :)</p>
<p>Great program, especially handy for those students in the North, Northeast. Son wanted to go somewhere outside of Maine to see what is out there. Maine is a beautiful state, a place where you can ski in the winter and go to sailing on the ocean in the summer. The University has two campuses, one in a small town named Gorham, and one in Portland. </p>
<p>I think that the amazing EmsDad did a great job with the disclaimer about what the data he presented is and is not. All it really is is a summary the application behavior of contributors to the CC background thread who took the time to actually detail where they applied etc. That leaves out a universe of non-CC people as he pointed out and it also leaves out CC people like me that never posted anywhere in any list form where my daughter applied, was accepted and rejected etc. So my data isn’t in those numbers but to put things in perspective, if it was in the data, I would singlehandedly change the position of 7 schools. I feel so powerful ;-)</p>
<p>This is only the application behavior of CC contributors that bothered to report it in recent years. It’s a leap to assume it is a surrogate for what is really going on on the street as EmsDad acknowledged. It’s also highly changeable. Look at the rise of Texas State and Rider as examples. Those schools were barely mentioned in CC as recently as three years ago and now in this analysis, they are both in the top 10 of the applied to data. </p>
<p>Yes, about Texas State and Rider. Also, I think there are a bunch of families on this forum who have worked with certain coaches. I think those coaches have relationships with Rider and Texas State and a lot of their students apply to those schools, whereas I haven’t known as many kids in my neck of the woods who apply to those schools. So people are exposed to certain schools in different ways such as those who read CC may have heard of certain schools that others have not heard of as often (I better not name these schools!) and then, certain coaches seem to have a higher percentage of students who apply to particular schools, I believe.</p>
<p>I think we can all agree that the quest for a spot in ANY MT program is getting harder and harder each year, simply by looking at the numbers of applicants and what the schools tell us about the number of people applying going up (while the number of spots at any one school remain the same). I think we can also all agree that there are many definitions of success, and many paths to those successes. And, the most important thing for choosing a school is the fit between your child and that school. Do certain schools open more doors for the kids that go there? Undoubtedly. But the fact remains that if your kid has “it,” s/he will make it, regardless of whether they went to UMich, Point Park, AMDA, Podunk Community College, or no school at all. </p>
<p>And I think part of the reason for the popularity of MT is that there is a lot of crossover between Broadway, TV, pop stars, and movies these days. Look at Aaron Tveit, Darren Criss, Kristin Chenoweth, Carly Rae Jepsen, Sutton Foster, Hunter Parrish, etc. Broadway stars are going to TV and movies; pop stars are going to Broadway; American Idol finalists go to Broadway, etc. I don’t think the crossover always works, but it is happening and it is helping keep Broadway alive and relatively well. </p>
<p>And, for the record, I did not find soozievt’s post offensive or hurtful at all. She was making a good, factual point with no value judgment attached. :)</p>
<p>We have come full circle and are returning to the topic of the original post.</p>
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<p>Actually @monkey13, that is not something that we all agree with. Earlier in this thread after much discussion on the subject, I for one concluded that it isn’t more competitive, it’s just differently competitive. I think there were others who agreed with me on that too. If by harder you mean you need to be more prepared than before, that I absolutely do agree with.</p>
<p>And I would like to jump in and thank the CC posters who have brought some of these schools to our attention. The enthusiastic comments of these posters have put schools on our radar that may just be a perfect fit for my D, and that fellow parents at my D PA high school have never heard of, and continue to kind of look at me cross eyed when I say D will be auditioning there. Oh well, less competition.</p>