Is the way adcoms look at Ap's fair?

Applying to College
1

<p>Ok, Ive heard plenty of adcoms say that they compare the number of ap's you took to the number of ap's available in your school. So if your school has 3 ap's offered and you take 3 you took every ap offered. Now compare that to a school that offers 17 ap's (mine-its the most in the state) is it fair that i have to take 17 ap's to get the hardest course load? I'm doing as many as i can (10 by the end of junior year-most in the school) but i dont know if 17 is possible. </p>

<p>So lets say someone does take 10 aps out of 17. will that be better then someone who took 3/3? i mean by following the logical deduction it should be better to take the 3/3 because you took 100% instead of being closer to 50%. is that fair? i dont think so and i hope the adcoms take that into consideration.</p>

<p>This argument goes far and wide. if you go to a school with nothing, it shouldnt be as hard to do everything, but if you go to a school with a lot, even though you do more then the person with nothing, you get less credit for doing it.</p>

2

<p>Elite schools want students to take the most rigerous course load that their school offers and to do well. If your school only offeres 3 ap and you took all three and did well, that's wonderful. It is not going to be held against you if you did not take what your school does not offer.</p>

<p>In Today's NY Times there are series of articles in the special section of educational life. The whole series of articles are really intersting and worth reading.</p>

<p>One of the articles talks about AP</p>

<p>The Two Faces of A.P. </p>

<p>Excerpts from the article states:</p>

<p>*SO many more students are arriving at colleges with a slew of A.P. courses under their belts that some institutions have become more choosy about giving them credit. Harvard, for example, no longer gives credit for scores below 5. And A.P. classes have spread so widely that the College Board is concerned that some schools are putting the label on courses that offer a diluted curriculum. So starting next month, it will begin to audit the 15,000 high schools that offer A.P. classes to make sure students everywhere get the same quality of curriculum.</p>

<p>"It's really important that we not give students in traditionally underserved schools a watered-down version of A.P.'s," says Trevor Packer, director of the Advanced Placement program. "This is a massive outreach effort to help even the playing field." </p>

<p>In 2002, a committee of the National Research Council, part of the National Academy of Sciences, sharply criticized A.P. math and science courses for cramming in too much material at the expense of understanding and failing to keep up with developments in the subjects. The College Board is now revamping its science and history courses.</p>

<p>WHEN all is said and done, how important are A.P. courses in college admissions? </p>

<p>That depends. Certainly, most schools count them in an applicant's favor. </p>

<p>**Admissions officers at the most elite colleges say, in almost identical words, that they want students who have taken "the most rigorous program the school offers" (Marlyn McGrath Lewis, Harvard); "the most demanding program they can take at their high school" (Karl Furstenberg, Dartmouth); "courses that challenge them academically" (Jeffrey Brenzel, Yale); and "the most challenging program that's available and that they can handle" (Richard Nesbitt, Williams). </p>

<p>"We don't expect students to take every A.P. that's offered, but if their school has 15 A.P.'s and they've avoided them all, that would certainly say something," Mr. Nesbitt says.</p>

<p>While admissions officers acknowledge that taking the most difficult A.P. courses, like Calculus BC, indicates a strong academic background, they take pains to say that there is no magic, no numeric formula - and no penalty for students from schools that do not have an A.P. program.</p>

<p>"Sheer A.P. firepower, having 10 A.P.'s, doesn't impress us," says Mr. Brenzel. "It's just one factor in evaluating a student's background and preparation."
***</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/08/education/edlife/apee.html?pagewanted=1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/08/education/edlife/apee.html?pagewanted=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

3

<p>my school offers one, US History, which I took and got a 4 on the exam. </p>

<p>and you have no idea how worried I am that it is going to weaken my applications.</p>

4

<p>great, so taking the most ap tests in my class is not going to help me especially since on the 3 tests ive taken i have a 3,4,4. oh well, i took as many aps as possible and its not going help oh well. :(</p>

5

<p>Nothing's fair about college admissions! These are for the most part private institutions that can do whatever the heck they want. No offense..I'm just saying that they determine their own standards and we live with them in return for the education they offer.</p>

<p>Anyway, I think what matters most is you compared to your peers at school...What have you done to take advantage of the opportunities available to you? I mean, if there are 10 APs offered and you've taken 5, that's great. If there are 5 offered and you've taken 5, that's great too. Colleges don't just look at these raw numbers though. You're forgetting that...That's why there's such a thing as a school profile sent to colleges with your app. It compares you to other students. If most kids take 5/5 APs but only few take the 5/10 then that's what makes the difference.</p>

6

<p>This is kinda where class rank begins to play I think.</p>

7

<p>it also depends on the AP courses. For example, Lit, Euro Hist, Calc, Bio, Physics and Chem are well-received and highly valued by adcoms. The so-called AP-Lites (Enviro, Stats, Physch, Human Geography, Govt., Econ) are not so highly valued. Still better than a college prep course, but not considered as rigorous as those in the first line.</p>

8

<p>So missing out on AP Human in tenth grade due to a scheduling conflict and taking honors instead won't hurt at all?</p>

9

<p>damn this article is quite depressing. it essentailly is saying that going to a crap school and thriving there by taking the max number of APs (which may be only 3) can essentially be equal to going to an academic powerhouse and taking 10/15 AP classes</p>

10

<p>haz; no problem</p>

<p>stonecold: actually, no. A "crap" school may get its Val and Sal into a top school, whereas a 'powerhouse" will get 10 x more.</p>

11

<p>I go to a crappy school with 16 APs...So does that mean I get the negatives of going to a great school, and no positives of a crappy school!!!</p>

12

<p>your school isnt that crappy if it has 16 APs, that shows that there are motivated kids who are taking these classes or else your school would not offer them</p>

<p>im talking about urban public schools that have low graduation rates</p>

13

<p>College know how many AP's are offered at your high school because they are sent a high school profile along with your transcript. There is not a single college guide that doesn't say that the most important thing is to take the most challenging curriculum offered at your high school. Notice the last part. </p>

<p>AP classes started out being rigourous courses at the elite high schools. As time went on, they were picked up by medium and low performing public high schools. Perhaps because of this, the actual AP scores don't matter that much as the classes are not standard in all high schools where they are taught. Perhaps it is because they are only one test. At any rate, it is important to take the AP classes, but the actual AP scores don't matter nearly as much. Of course if you have all 5's, that is a boost. (The SAT II scores matter a lot more.)</p>

14

<p>"your school isnt that crappy if it has 16 APs, that shows that there are motivated kids who are taking these classes or else your school would not offer them</p>

<p>im talking about urban public schools that have low graduation rates"</p>

<p>Actually the school really is crappy. Our api score is borderline 700 and my school is basically a feeder for Cal States & CCs. There were only 2 commended last year for the PSAT. Therefore, APs do not represent whether or not the school is good.</p>

15

<p>I go to an urban public school, and our graduation rate is the highest in the state.</p>

<p>Lets not make assumptions here.</p>

16

<p>I think we need to give more credit to the college admissions people.
They generally know a lot about the high schools that feed their college. The elites get to know the high schools all over the country. They send visitors out to talk to high school counselors - they have records of how well students from the different high schools have fared at their college.
They have a lot of data -high school demographics, rankings, etc. upon which to evaluate various high schools.
Colleges also can see if students have taken advantage of opportunities outside of their high schools if their schools are weak.</p>

17

<p>In my school about 20 kids in the top of my class are all taking atleast 2 or 3 ap classes; im not saying that theyre getting straight a's or passing with 5's, but when articulation comes around and i see all these ppl who seem to be taking on a whim, it kind of gets me worried that my efforts wont mean anything even if i do well, and makes me feel like i need to take atleast one more than the usual (4, 5) which i can handle and is relevant, not just for kicks or gpa as my classmates seem to do.
also, im worried that all these kids taking ap classes will inflate class ranking by taking ap lites with a's while others break their backs with harder ap classes and getting b/c's and it ends up hurting them.</p>