Is there a school you WOULDN'T want your kid to go to?

[RobD]

<p>^^^No, I wasn’t. Just sharing the general studies. BUT our HS warned the uber accelerated math kids that they should continue some type of math through senior year (until grad requirements changed you could top out the math offerings by sophomore or junior year if you started HS math in 6th grade) because they saw quite a few top math kids take a year off of math their senior year & then bomb the college placement tests. It’s not always because of a lack of rigor.</p>

[alh]

<p>

Me too. Fortunately, I have about 3,000 choices for places to send them.

</p>

<p>There are 3,000 choices with better science programs than the current HS?? Or was a better science program not a criteria??</p>

[annasdad]

<p>There are 3,000 choices with opportunities for a motivated student, like my D, to obtain a high-quality education. Many of them have much broader science offerings than her HS, and if she chooses to pursue a science major, she will have the opportunity to take full advantage of them - whether or not they’re as rigorous and taught in the same way as she is used to.</p>

<p>If there was a college where there was substantially higher rigor, and it was a place she could get into, and if was a place that I could afford to send her, I would recommend it to her, with no reservations (and she would very likely jump at the chance). Know of any such place?</p>

[jym626]

<p>[Rewarding</a> Strivers — The Century Foundation](<a href=“http://tcf.org/publications/2010/6/pb715]Rewarding”>Book - Rewarding Strivers)</p>

<p>

Attending a selective college is likely to be worth the investment.
Going to a selective, wealthy institution of higher education may indeed be worth the investment (and not just for getting appointed to the U.S. Supreme Court). Colleges with low selectivity spend about $12,000 per student, compared with $92,000 per student at the most selective institutions. Moreover, in the wealthiest 10 percent of institutions, students pay just 20 cents for every dollar spent on them, compared with the poorest 10 percent of
institutions, where students pay 78 cents of every dollar spent on them. Selective institutions are much more likely to graduate equally qualifi ed students than less-selective colleges and universities. Earnings are 45 percent higher for students who graduated from more-selective institutions, particularly low-income students. And according to research
by Thomas Dye, 54 percent of America’s corporate leaders and 42 percent of government leaders are graduates of just twelve institutions.

</p>

[alh]

<p>

Northwestern - any college where the science classes are easier than those in my kid’s high school isn’t worth $55K a year (or 55 cents, for that matter).

</p>

<p>backing up to post 111^^</p>

<p>obviously if your daughter isn’t interested in a science major, isn’t on her way to an MD/PhD program, etc - it won’t matter to you that the science program is less rigorous than her HS</p>

<p>or maybe it will
I honestly can’t tell</p>

<p>

If there was a college where there was substantially higher rigor, and it was a place she could get into, and if was a place that I could afford to send her, I would recommend it to her, with no reservations (and she would very likely jump at the chance). Know of any such place?

</p>

<p>substantially higher rigor than what???</p>

[annasdad]

<p>

obviously if your daughter isn’t interested in a science major, isn’t on her way to an MD/PhD program, etc - it won’t matter to you that the science program is less rigorous than her HS

</p>

<p>Since she is at this point undecided, and since one of her possible majors is in a science, it does matter.</p>

<p>

substantially higher rigor than what???

</p>

<p>the norm</p>

[alh]

<p>Northwestern isn’t on the top 3,000 college list?</p>

<p>There is a norm of rigor? Got a study on that?</p>

[jym626]

<p>Since Annasdad claims he doesnt read some posts, he’ll probably conveniently claim he didnt see the research posted in post # 384. Would someone kindly repost it? It clearly refutes the stuff he is spewing.</p>

[collegealum314]

<p>

Colleges with low selectivity spend about $12,000 per student, compared with $92,000 per student at the most selective institutions.

</p>

<p>This is compelling, although it’s possible that the stronger students have more opportunities (and thus, have more money spent on them) than the weaker students.</p>

<p>

Earnings are 45 percent higher for students who graduated from more-selective institutions, particularly low-income students.

</p>

<p>This could just be association (e.g., they were better students when the matriculated, and those skills translated to better income independent of college choice.)</p>

[annasdad]

<p>

Northwestern isn’t on the top 3,000 college list?

</p>

<p>Not on mine.</p>

<p>

There is a norm of rigor? Got a study on that?

</p>

<p>Nope, no study that I know of. Strictly anecdotal, in the finest traditions of CC.</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>

@annasdad

Are you seriously suggesting that the typical admitted student at a so-called “top 20” university is likely to be “below grade level” in math or science?

</p>

<p>Look for universities (whether “top 20” or not) that are not super-elite STEM-focused schools that do not offer either a precalculus course for students unprepared for calculus, or a less rigorous “calculus for business and biology majors” course, or a slow-paced calculus course. That list of schools is likely very small.</p>

<p>

@annasdad

You have a reference for that?

</p>

<p>Guess you missed the thread about the high percentage of college freshmen in remedial math courses at a broad based state university (that enrolled all levels of college bound students from the marginally college qualified to the top students in high school).</p>

[annasdad]

<p>

@collegealum

Colleges with low selectivity spend about $12,000 per student, compared with $92,000 per student at the most selective institutions.

This is compelling, although it’s possible that the stronger students have more opportunities (and thus, have more money spent on them) than the weaker students.

</p>

<p>

Some weak to moderately consistent evidence indicated that college selectivity has a small, positive impact on aesthetic, cultural, and intellectual values; political and social liberalism; and secularism. Aside from these small effects, however, little consistent evidence suggested that college selectivity, prestige, or educational resources had any important net impact in areas such as learning, cognitive and intellectual development, the majority of psychosocial changes, the development of principled moral reasoning, or shifts in attitudes and values.

</p>

<p>– Ernest T. Pascarella and Patrick T. Terenzini, “How College Affects Students, Volume 2: A Third Decade of Research.” San Francisco: Jossey-Bass, 2005, p. 591</p>

<p>

@collegealum

Earnings are 45 percent higher for students who graduated from more-selective institutions, particularly low-income students.

This could just be association (e.g., they were better students when the matriculated, and those skills translated to better income independent of college choice.)

</p>

<p>Exactly.</p>

<p>

“Although there are a number of variations, the typical study we reviewed used some form of regression analysis to estimate the extent to which institutional characteristics or environments affected learning outcomes above and beyond the influence of individual student characteristics.”

</p>

<p>– Ibid, 75, and</p>

<p>

With regard to earnings, all of the 27 studies reported were based on 11 pre-existing data sets with limitations that “simply do not permit one to introduce controls for all, or even most, of the important confounding influences. Consequently [says one researcher], ‘what looks like an effect of attending an elite college may really be an effect of unmeasured preexisting potential in academic or earning potential.’”

</p>

<p>– Ibid., 472, and even for the small variations in economic outcomes that the data does show,</p>

<p>

“Measures of individual ambition are almost universally absent in investigations of the impact of college quality on earnings. This absence should probably come as no great surprise, because measuring ambition in a way that predicts one’s future economic success is a nontrivial challenge. … In short, elite, highly selective colleges may simply recruit and enroll students who would have a high earnings capacity no matter where they went to college.” Looking at two independent data sets (1995 followup on 1976 graduates, 1986 followup of 1972 graduates), when one study controlled for ambition by the number of applications students made to selective colleges, both data sets showed “the effect of college selectivity on earnings was reduced to a level that was trivial and nonsignificant.”

</p>

<p>Ibid., 475</p>

[barrons]

<p>Good, send her to Eastern Illinois and leave that NU spot free.</p>

[menloparkmom]

<p>well guess what annasdad, if NU isn’t on your top 3000 list, then any list you have come up with is probably worthless, since it is based solely on your own biased opinion and not based on analyses of colleges made by credible independent researchers. So carry on with your delusional rankings. And dont expect help from CC parents in finding “the perfect college for your DD”, as you obviously aren’t prepared to believe anything that we say and apparently seek only to argue with others in an attempt to prove them wrong… So why waste the time?
nuff said…</p>

[annasdad]

<p>

@ucbalumnus

Look for universities (whether “top 20” or not) that are not super-elite STEM-focused schools that do not offer either a precalculus course for students unprepared for calculus, or a less rigorous “calculus for business and biology majors” course, or a slow-paced calculus course. That list of schools is likely very small.

</p>

<p>But you said </p>

<p>

Indeed, a very large percentage of college freshmen need to take remedial math in college, or take something less rigorous than normal freshman calculus (e.g. an easier “calculus for business and biology majors” course). This is true even at highly selective schools other than the super-elite STEM-focused schools. … Guess you missed the thread about the high percentage of college freshmen in remedial math courses at a broad based state university (that enrolled all levels of college bound students from the marginally college qualified to the top students in high school).

</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/13815193-post363.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/13815193-post363.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>And now you’re arguing that some students at universities in general need to take pre-calc or baby calc courses. No argument from me there, but that’s not what you originally claimed.</p>

[eastcoascrazy]

<p>Any college where my child might have to room with the child of any CC member whose comments make my head feel like it might explode. </p>

<p>Selfish, I know, but I cherish move-in day for its own inherent drama.</p>

[Haystack]

<p>Shark Jumping; anyone?</p>

[menloparkmom]

<p>^^ lol!!!</p>

[annasdad]

<p>

well guess what annasdad, if NU isn’t on your top 3000 list, then any list you have come up with is probably worthless

</p>

<p>I don’t recall ever having suggested a list to you or anyone else.</p>

<p>

since it is based solely on your own biased opinion and not based on analyses of colleges made by credible independent researchers.

</p>

<p>Oh yeah, like USNWR.</p>

<p>

So carry on with your delusional rankings.

</p>

<p>Nor have I suggested any rankings.</p>

<p>

And dont expect help from CC parents in finding “the perfect college for your DD”, as you obviously aren’t prepared to believe anything that we say. So why waste the time?

</p>

<p>Well, since I don’t recall ever asking for help from CC parents in finding the perfect school for my daughter, I guess I can live with that. Nevertheless, I do give weight to the opinions of some CC posters - though not all.</p>

[annasdad]

<p>

Good, send her to Eastern Illinois and leave that NU spot free.

</p>

<p>Eastern Illinois at $22K or Northwestern at $55K? No contest.</p>

<p>(Although Eastern doesn’t happen to be on her list.)</p>