Is there really such a thing as "safety" school these days?

<p>My daughter is on the right track—her grades and test scores are in the upper 2%, her ECs reflect who she is and she has taken a leadership role in several organizations and won some minor honors, her course load is as challenging as it gets at her school, and she's definitely on top of the college search process. She's ambitious but realistic. All good, right? As she looks at the schools she wants to apply to, she does not feel that any could be considered a true "safety". The more she (and I) read, the more it seems like with admissions decisions today the "safety" school, even for high-achieving students is going the way of the do-do. </p>

<p>How do you define a "safety" school in today's competitive admissions climate?</p>

<p>Safety = certain admission, certain affordability, and otherwise a school that the student would like to attend.</p>

<p>High stats students may find candidates in this list:
<a href=“Automatic Full Tuition / Full Ride Scholarships - #300 by BobWallace - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums”>Automatic Full Tuition / Full Ride Scholarships - #300 by BobWallace - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums;

<p>If the budget is large enough, this list can also provide some:
<a href=“Updated list of schools with auto-admit (guaranteed admission) criteria - Applying to College - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1562918-updated-list-of-schools-with-auto-admit-guaranteed-admission-criteria.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>If National Merit, look here for the automatic ones:
<a href=“NMF Scholarships: An Updated Compilation - #817 by BobWallace - National Merit Scholarships - College Confidential Forums”>NMF Scholarships: An Updated Compilation - #817 by BobWallace - National Merit Scholarships - College Confidential Forums;

<p>In-state public universities may also have automatic admission or scholarship offers for in-state residents. The ultimate backup is to start college at an open admission community college.</p>

<p>Of course, if the student is very picky (e.g. only wants a high prestige and selectivity school), then s/he may not be able to find any safety that she likes. Or if she is applying for something that requires highly subjective evaluation (e.g. music study requiring an audition), then s/he may not have a true safety among such schools (but may have a safety at other types of schools).</p>

<p>Since the student will likely be an outlier at the high achieving end of the student body at a safety school, it may be worth considering larger schools with “wide” range student bodies for safeties, since such schools are more likely to have a critical mass of high achieving students to have appropriate academic offerings (e.g. honors courses) and for such students to find each other as peers.</p>

<p>Note that an EA or rolling admission to a school that you know will be affordable turns that school into a safety.</p>

<p>You are not looking for a safety, you are looking for a school that is at her level but that she would pick as first choice. You need to look for a sure admit with a cost you can afford, and the apply away at all the schools she wants to go to.</p>

<p>For a true safety, I’d look for an auto admit or a school with a rolling admission so that she can apply there early, have that in your pocket, and then apply to the schools she’d rather go to. If she gets denied at every one of the ‘want’ schools, she has a safety. If she would rather go no where than the safety, then it isn’t a safety.</p>

<p>It can be very difficult for a high-stats kid to find a true financial and academic safety they <em>like</em>, especially if there are financial constraints. </p>

<p>Meanwhile, all of their matches are highly selective, or even “lottery” schools</p>

<p>If you live in a state with a good flagship, that’s probably your safety, even if your kid would prefer a smaller school. I finally got my kid to agree to apply to the University of Rochester as his safety. As it turned out, their total FA package was the worst of any school at which he was accepted, so it wasn’t a true safety after all.</p>

<p>I often recommend the Honors College at Pitt as a safety for high stats kids. It is very well thought of, and Pitt combines rolling admissions with the possibility of significant FA for OOS students. </p>

<p>I also recommend Pitt Honors College, for the same reasons as Consolation and also because the threshold for keeping merit money is a very generous 3.0, but in recent years it seems that much higher stats are needed for those full tuition scholarships than was once the case, so I am not so sure that it is a good financial safety for any but those OOS students with the very highest stats. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>However, some of the more selective flagships may be safeties for no one (although they may be matches for some students). Also, middle to lower income families in states where the flagships give poor in-state financial aid may find that those flagships cannot be safeties because they are too expensive.</p>

<p>Are you saying that an instate kid who, like the OP’s kid is in the top 2% stats-wise in both GPA and SAT/ACT, would not be safe at U VA, U of M, or one of the top UCs? I very strongly doubt it. There are lots of schools here that people persist in describing as “safeties for no one” which really are safeties for <em>some</em>.</p>

<p>I do fully agree that the state flagship may well not be a <em>financial</em> safety. BT/DT! :)</p>

<p>Back when UC Statfinder was up, even students in the highest range of GPA and test scores did not have 100% (or even 90+%) rate of admission to Berkeley and UCLA, particularly to more popular divisions like engineering. Although the stats (particularly courses and grades) figures prominently in the holistic review process, the holistic process makes admission less predictable than admission by GPA and test score formula, which itself is less predictable than having a stated automatic admission threshold.</p>

<p>Are you saying that this was true even of those who weren’t applying as CS/engineering majors? Okay, but I think that must be the exception. Of course, it is also true that in the UC system there are uniquely broad possibilities.</p>

<p>No Michigan is NOT a safety for out of state kids. I can’t speak to the others mentioned. But I don’t “buy” that kids can’t find a safety. There are thousands of colleges in the country and to think there aren’t high “stat” kids at a huge percentage of them is simply not believable. Finding the financial safety is only a problem if the family is high middle class with no money saved. If the OP thinks her D has not found a “safety” in her wish list then she needs to look more or expand the decision matrix. There is no conspiracy…only media hype. </p>

<p>UCLA and UCB are not safety schools for anyone. Some school in the UC system, yes.
But, not those two. However, finding a safety is not that hard. Finding a safety the student wants to attend can be is a challenge.</p>

<p>Please note that I was talking strictly about IN-STATE kids. Don’t tell me that a student with such stats will not be able to use either U of M or Michigan State as an academic safety, especially when combined with rolling admissions and early applications. They would not need to resort to one of the directionals as a safety.</p>

<p>Yes Consolation, a student with high stats who lives in Michigan would be accepted at MSU or UofM or both. I thought you were referencing all students so my apologies. There seems to be more cross admits from the Chicago area to UofM and Illinois, but it’s a tough sell to pay the out of state costs for the majors that are similarly strong at Illinois even if the driving distance from Chicago is similar to both and for an Indiana kid accepted to Kelly, it’s tough to wait it out for a sophomore acceptance to Ross that isn’t guaranteed and again cost can be a factor for an Indiana family. Same scenario with Wisconsin and Michigan. </p>

<p>A good idea is to find a safety that has non binding EA or rolling so you are sure that you get in before other applications are due. Both of my kids did this and it took a lot of pressure off.</p>

<p>Not sure if it’s true, but it seems like the schools that are harder to get into have the best grant percentages and highest endowment-to-student ratios. But the non-top state schools aren’t usually that expensive.</p>

<p>I also think there is a herd mentality among young people and they tend to group and point toward the same group of colleges. If you can break away from that mentality you can find those schools that can give students the academic vibrancy they want and those schools can often fill that safety slot. You can often find them by searching on “schools like blah blah blah.” Most kids aren’t looking for the school that is only “best for their major”…most kids are looking for multiple criteria. My second son attacked his search this way. He liked Colby and Dartmouth and from there he found Hobart William Smith, St. Lawrence and some others that filled the safety criteria. </p>

<p>I am also of the school that the best safety is the school that accepts you early. Older son was accepted by RPI (with a merit award) by Thanksgiving, and younger son got into Chicago EA. He also got into American with a big merit award. We were lucky not to be worrying about financial safeties, but I think there are lots of high safeties for high stat kids.</p>

<p>“Please note that I was talking strictly about IN-STATE kids. Don’t tell me that a student with such stats will not be able to use either U of M or Michigan State as an academic safety, especially when combined with rolling admissions and early applications. They would not need to resort to one of the directionals as a safety.”</p>

<p>U of Illinois is not a safety for ANY Illinois kid, IMO - and neither is U of Michigan for any Michigan kid (though MSU might be). I think you guys on the coasts underestimate how these schools can be more selective than you think, and how they are rejecting kids that make you scratch your head and say - huh, I thought that kid was a shoo-in. Part of that is geographical diversity, of course - both of those schools can only take so many kids from Chicagoland. </p>

<p>Which is why I added the or, or and the and. We found that out last year when S3 was deferred EA at UofM People would have told “me” that UofM was an adequate safety given his GPA and ACT scores and three generation legacy ties. You are correct…always have a Plan B. </p>

<p>Pizzagirl, doesn’t UIUC have something like a 60%+ acceptance rate? Although the school may be somewhat self selecting (you’re a better judge of that than I am) it would seem fairly difficult for a high stats student to be rejected from the school if they’re not applying to its most competitive programs. </p>