Is this a good balance of schools? What other schools should I consider?

College Search & Selection
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<p>Hello all, I am looking to begin finalizing my list of schools to apply to, now that the CA is opening up fairly soon. So, first some numbers. I'm asian, chinese.</p>

<p>SAT 1: 2280 (720M, 800R, 760WR) I'm not planning on sending this score in</p>

<p>SAT 2: 800 math II, 800 US History, 800 Chem</p>

<p>ACT: 35 (35 E, 36 M, 34 R, 36 S)</p>

<p>APs: 5 APUSH, 5 Chem, 5/5 BC Calc/AB subscore, 4 Comp Sci</p>

<p>GPA: 3.98 UW</p>

<p>No class rank.</p>

<p>Don't want to type extracurriculars out, but suffice it to say that I have a lot of depth in music and not much width.</p>

<p>Looking to major in ChemE.</p>

<p>Parents make ~100k/yr. My dad works @ UPenn, so that's 16k/yr tuition benefit.</p>

<p>So these are the colleges I think I want to go to/apply to so far. In no particular order: Northwestern, Cornell, UMich, UIUC, Penn State Honors, UPenn, JHU, Lehigh, possibly Vanderbilt.</p>

<p>Is this a good, balanced-ish list? Any other colleges I should consider? I've noticed that many of these colleges are in large towns/small cities, with a strong engineering background. I was thinking that I need another safety or two with the same geographical type, possibly eliminating some of the reaches.</p>

<p>Thanks guys.</p>

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<p>I would cross off UMich and UIUC if you have significant financial need (Penn State doesn’t have great aid either). The first schools that came to mind with your description were RPI/WPI, if you don’t mind the Northeast.</p>

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<p>I like the list but can your family afford all these schools? have you run the net price calculator and talk to your parents?</p>

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<p>Im assuming you live in PA because of your dad. I would just add one more safety and one more match. Your list is a little top heavy. </p>

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<p>@jkeil911‌ @loquatical‌ I have talked to my parents, my mom specifically since she handles finances. They seem willing to shell out ~10k/year, taking the rest most likely in loans. I’ve run the net price calc from collegeboard for a number of these schools and the price from UMich did seem prohibitively high. The prices from NU, Cornell, PSU, UPenn etc. were within an acceptable range, considering that I can have 16k off tuition. Now my question is if the tuition benefit (grant, essentially) will count against any grants/scholarships I might get in a FA package from another college, resulting in a higher net price.</p>

<p>@AnnieBeats‌ What would be your recommendations for the safety and match? I’m probably taking off UMich and UIUC.</p>

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<p>OP, I don’t know how much you think you can take out in loans to cover that kind of gap, but you yourself can only borrow $5500 first year, about $27k for four years. That’s about as much debt as you want to take on, and it would perhaps be inadvisable for your parents to take out loans to pay the gap. You need to leverage your stats into need-based or merit aid, even if that means not going to any of the schools you’ve mentioned here. </p>

<p>Need based aid won’t pay more than the Cost of Attendance minus the Expected Family Contribution (EFC is likely to be more than 10K). These schools say they will meet 100% of need:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2013/09/18/colleges-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need-2014”>http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2013/09/18/colleges-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need-2014&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Big merit aid is the other route to dollar sanity. Some of these are full ride, most full tuition, almost all are competitive:</p>

<p><a href=“Competitive Full Tuition / Full Ride Scholarships - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums”>Competitive Full Tuition / Full Ride Scholarships - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums;

<p><a href=“Automatic Full Tuition / Full Ride Scholarships - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums”>Automatic Full Tuition / Full Ride Scholarships - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums;

<p>If you rec’d full tuition, you’d have (only) r&b, insurance, fees, books, etc. to pay for, somewhere between 11-14K probably. This would put you much closer to using your parents’ contribution and a loan to pay for college.</p>

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<p>Per all of your suggestions, I’ve removed UMich and UIUC, and added Pitt and UMCP as a safety and match respectively. I’ll try for the full ride @ UMCP, otherwise I probably won’t go, as it is OOS like UMich and UIUC, but w/ lower tuition. Of course, I will research other scholarships @ other schools and elsewhere. Any other recommendations?</p>

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<p>Try u minn-tc as u r ok w/big state schools, they are very strong chem e.lower tuition and they give merit.</p>

<p>Your dad should be able to ask a benefits advisor at penn how the aid stacking works, they likely know. </p>

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<p>@BrownParent‌ Thanks for your suggestion. But I think that I’m basically in @ Penn State, so applying to another State college, especially as far away as Minnesota, is a little redundant.</p>

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<p>I would keep Michigan, Kevin. The University is committed to improving OOS FA contribution and is raising a lot of funds to that end. You lose nothing by applying. Also, given your stats, you could qualify for a merit scholarship. Just make sure if you apply to Michigan, you do so EA. </p>

<p>I would also add Minnesota-Twin Cities, Rice and Delaware. BrownParent was spot on when recommending Minnesota. Its ChemE department is among the top 5 in the nation, and OOS tuition is almost identical to in-state tuition at PSU. Minnesota has a great relationship with 3M, which could mean a job when you graduate.</p>

<p>I like your list otherwise. Cornell, Northwestern, PSU and UPenn are an awesome core. The only school on that list I would remove is Vanderbilt. Although it is clearly an elite university, its Engineering programs are not so great, and it is a reach. </p>

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<p>@Alexandre‌, OP’s income is 100k and has an EFC of about 10k. Looks like he needs to win one of a couple BIG ticket merit awards available to OOS (I checked and it looks like only about 2-3). If he does decide to apply, OP should definitely apply EA like you said.</p>

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<p>@Alexandre I’m inclined to agree with you on Michigan, but as it stands, I’m already at 10 schools, which I think is plenty. I have (I think) two match (Lehigh, UMCP), two safety (Pitt, PSU) and 6 reaches. I think this list is OK, although if there are good reasons to apply to more schools, please do tell!</p>

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<p>@Alexandre I just saw your edit. I’ve been on the edge on Vanderbilt. On one hand I’ve seen pics of its great campus, and heard about its atmosphere, but on the other I’m a little wary about how it sells its “southern-ness” and now about its engineering programs. Can you elaborate on how its Engineering is not so good? Is it a lack of research or more a pedagogical thing?</p>

<p>I’m honestly not to thrilled about Rice or Delaware, but I will think about Minnesota.</p>

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<p>@Alexandre - are you the moderator for the UM forum? If so, perhaps you should disclose that when making suggestions to apply there. The comment “You lose nothing by applying” seems to disregard time, cost and opportunity cost of applying to another school. </p>

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<p>There is no doubt that Vanderbilt is a great university. If your intent were to major in a liberal arts discipline, or if you were premed or prelaw, Vanderbilt would be a great option. But when it comes to Engineering, I think other universities can provide you will more Engineering resources and better access to recruiters. Rice is one such university. Carnegie Mellon is another. </p>

<p>loquatical, I agree, Michigan would probably have to give kevin some sort of merit scholarship, although I have seen a significant improvement in FA for OOS students in recent years. It is a risk, but given the strength of the university and its connection with major firms such as Dow Chemical and BASF, applying to Michigan makes good sense.</p>

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<p>Good OOS financial aid at Michigan appears to be limited to the lowest income ranges. See this discussion:</p>

<p><a href=“Is UMich a good choice for OOS students? - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1668760-is-umich-a-good-choice-for-oos-students.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Folks, Michigan was off the list until [the school’s moderator] suggested it get put back on. Now, we’ve had 4-5 posts debating UM financial aid. Can we focus this more on the OP’s situation?</p>

<p>Kevin, you’ve got a good list now which needs to be adjusted based on cost factors. Perhaps, you should go through the schools on the links provided and come back with an update or some questions.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>408.6 STUDENTS RECEIVING OUTSIDE SCHOLARSHIPS
If the dependent of a faculty/staff member is receiving the tuition benefit and will also receive another scholarship, then one of the following must be true:</p>

<pre><code>If the other scholarship is restricted to cover only tuition, the gross tuition benefit from Penn plus the other scholarship cannot exceed the line item of tuition charge.
If the other scholarship can be used for charges other than tuition, the recipient must make sure that the scholarship plus the Penn benefit does not exceed the total bill. If the scholarship plus the Penn benefit exceeds the bill, the recipient must make sure that the other scholarship’s overpayment can be refunded to the student. If not, the excess must be returned to the granting organization or the Penn Tuition Benefit Office.
</code></pre>

<p>Please note, loans are not considered in the calculation of the tuition benefit amount and therefore are not subject to this policy. </p>

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<p>I think that $16k tuition benefit will count towards need…it wont remove/reduce parent contribution unless the OTHER aid is merit and can stack.</p>

<p>so if parents have a 100k income and a 25k family contribution, they will still have to pay that cost in many cases at full need schools</p>

<p>for example</p>

<p>62k COA</p>

<h2>25k EFC</h2>

<p>need = 37k</p>

<p>but…the 16k tuition benefit will get applied like this…</p>

<p>62k</p>

<h2>25k + 16k family contribution (31k)</h2>

<p>need is now $31k…so the school will provide aid (grants, loans, w/s) to meet that need, but the family’s contribution stays the same.</p>

<p>How much will your family pay each year? I have a feeling that the parents may be thinking that the $16k can be a chunk of their contribution, but it wont be at need-based aid schools. </p>

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<p>CHD, my being the moderator of the Michigan forum has nothing to do with the advice of keeping Michigan on the OP’s list. I many instances, I have recommend the removal of Michigan from one’s list of universities, but in this case, I think applying to Michigan is worth it because between Michigan’s current drive to improve OOS FA and possible merit scholarships, there is a reasonable chance that Michigan could be affordable. Given Michigan’s status in Engineering and the OP’s desire for a well rounded university, I think applying to Michigan makes good sense.</p>