<p>My kids' high school is a bit different than many I read about on CC. Every single class offered at their school can be taken with honors - and each teacher has different requirements for honors credit. Typically this requires a lot more work (more projects, more labs, more essays etc) and keeping a minimum grade on tests and homework. Their teachers give their syllabus on the first day and kids have a few weeks into the term to decide on the honors option.</p>
<p>My oldest took a particular class and opted for honors credit. This particular class had some serious time commitments for honors credit, as the multiple projects required many hours for regular credit alone. </p>
<p>Today is the last day of class (finals the rest of the week). All kids in this class (two class sections) that opted for honors had honors dropped today. Why? Because they all didn't do the last item on the syllabus - not a single one kid did the item. The only reason I can think of is that it was on the syllabus and then never mentioned again.</p>
<p>The teachers are good about reminding kids about upcoming deadlines. This teacher didn't mention this project beyond the first day.</p>
<p>But I keep coming back to - life lesson or intervention? I'm not the kind of mom that wants to intervene, especially when it actually is a good life lesson. It won't have an overall effect on "most rigorous" checkboxes, because all the kids that are super high performing and dedicated all lost the honors credit today. Honors is used to determine valedictorian when there is a tie, so some kids will be down an honors credit.</p>
<p>I think this is a life lesson - i.e., read the instructions. </p>
<p>Once in college, the professors won’t be in the business of reminding the students of upcoming deadlines. This is not going to affect his college future, but having this experience under his belt may make him read the college syllabi more thoroughly. </p>
<p>Probably. Not that I would expect the school to change the outcome, because most likely they will stand behind the teacher. They usually do. I just do not think a teacher should be trying to trip students up like this. An upcoming project usually is discussed in class or at least a reference to the deadline is made. The fact that every single student failed to do the project speaks volumes. A syllabus tends to be looked at the first few weeks of class, and then it gets lost in a student’s binder as they become immersed in the coursework.</p>
<p>I would speak to some of the other parents and get their thoughts as well. I am certain you are not alone in your discomfort with this situation. I am of the opinion that teachers should facilitate their student’s success not provide obstacles.</p>
<p>It would have been helpful if the teacher had mentioned it, but not necessary. The kids should have kept up with the requirements (read the directions!)</p>
<p>Well, that’s the problem with teaching the same class with two different sets of expectations. The students on the higher track are expected not to need the reminders. The ability to read a contract and act on it separates the honors students from the non-honors in this context. I don’t think it’s fair to expect the teacher to teach two classes simultaneously. Honors is supposed to go beyond the regular. It’s not just extra work, it’s extra attention and commitment.</p>
<p>My D’s college roommate’s mother is a professor who has a T-shirt that says, “It’s on the syllabus.” Pretty much the philosophy of every professor. And evidently, the philosophy of this high school teacher too.</p>
<p>I think it’s a good lesson for all the students to read the syllabus and ask if there’s something on there that they aren’t sure about. I’m surprised none of the students brought it up–the kids in my high school definitely would have been all over it.</p>
<p>I think it’d be a good idea to ask some of the other parents how they feel about it, but regardless of whether you intervene or not, make sure your student knows to look out for this kind of thing in college. I’ve had papers in classes due on the last day of class that were never mentioned beyond the first class. Make sure they know that no one’s going to be able to save them if this happens in college or even a job, if they have a project due that their boss isn’t giving them reminders about.</p>
<p>This same kid does take a college class and pays very close attention to when homework is due, when mid terms are (because there is always a conflict with the high school and the college schedule), etc, so I guess it’s a good reinforcement on that!</p>
<p>I also see both of my kids talking to their classmates on snapchat (or some such unknown social media site that I don’t pay much attention to because I’m old) each night while doing homework. I’ve asked, and usually they are talking about homework - like one kid will ask my son how he handled this part of the write up and vice versa. So it does surprise me greatly that not a single kid picked up on the fact that they had something due.</p>
<p>Harvestmoon- I think that is the source of my discomfort - barrier versus helping succeed. I’ve had another issue with this teacher and the bottom line for me is that there is no way either of my kids will ever take one of this teacher’s classes again. </p>
<p>I will be calling one of the parents in a bit. </p>
<p>I’m trying to think how you could intervene. Would you really tell the teacher that the kids only pay attention to the assignments when the teacher reminds them multiple times? I’m not sure how you could prove that the teacher didn’t mention this project beyond the first day but even if you could, I don’t see how it would really matter.</p>
<p>It’s possible that the teacher used this particular assignment as a test to see if these “super high performing and dedicated” students depended on frequent reminders about projects, or if they could take the responsibility themselves to make sure they completed everything on the syllabus. After all, if they are expecting college instructors to do a lot of hand-holding to make sure they don’t forget to do all their assigned projects, they are probably going to be unpleasantly surprised.</p>
<p>I think this is a clear life lesson situation. Sorry.</p>
<p>^^^^^
Perhaps, but that lesson could be learned without 2 sections of students losing honors credits for a course. Maybe the teacher extends the deadline but penalizes them with a certain % off. Even in college and grad school I remember final projects or papers being referenced numerous times before they were due. Even if it was something innocuous like the teacher saying “I will have office hours for consults on your final paper next week”. This teacher was trying to make a point and perhaps take these honors students down a notch. She did a great job! </p>
<p>You are not going to change the outcome here but my personality is such that I would express my thoughts to the teacher. In today’s cut throat academic environment these kids are doing the best that they can. Who needs someone like this tripping them up?</p>
<p>Oh, the intervening part is easy. The principal always has a tough job, even if they usually would side with the teacher.</p>
<p>By way of explanation, a few years ago a couple of parents and I were setting up for an event at the grade school. The other two parents were grousing about how much the grade school principal had dropped the ball in the last few months. I looked at them and said, “well, principal X is still recovering from their heart attack”. And it isn’t like the two didn’t know- we all know when something like that happens. We are a very demanding community and apparently even a heart attack doesn’t tamper down our demands.</p>
<p>It’ll be the parents that pay tuition that would be more likely to complain, not me. Both dh and I think it’s a good life lesson, even if the last minute aspect of it leaves a bad taste in our mouth!</p>
<p>I’m not trying to pile on, but no, in fact, the students who didn’t get honors credit because they missed a deadline are not doing the best they can. I guess it’s a difference between high school and college expectations, but people don’t wave red flags at you if you are not keyed in. It’s your job to meet deadlines. I don’t get “reminders” to pay my taxes, for example. An honors designation presupposes, at the very least, some proactivity on the part of the student. No one is entitled to honors designation.</p>
<p>Of course, that’s the problem with any “honors by contract” set up, where there are two simultaneous standards of evaluation in the same classroom. I think that’s actually a terrible arrangement, but apparently it’s what the school decided to go with. Don’t blame the teacher.</p>
<p>Why would it punish the teacher under the “honors for contract” regime? It’s less work for her to grade. If you have mixed ability classes in the same hour, you’re going to teach to the mean anyway. The compensations for teaching “honors” (ability to cover higher level material, opportunity for higher-level discourse) are already not there. All teachers teach to the mean, wherever they are. They have to.</p>
<p>The OP might consider complaining about mixing honors and non-honors populations in the same class. That, it seems to me, is the hidden issue and problem. </p>
<p>Well, in a small school the only way to offer honors is to offer it to any kid. That means that there is a class - and you take it with honors or not (so there are no separate honors classes). Not enough kids or teachers to offer it both ways.</p>
<p>I’m also finding that there was no due date listed for the project. I’ve told my kid that’s too bad- it’s still their responsibility to be on top of it.</p>
<p>Sax, on the last day of class, there is literally no class to teach :)</p>
<p>Actually my last post was in response to Sax’s post. And yes, I think it does reflect poorly on her that the class lost it’s optional honors designation. But you are right, it is less work for her to grade which raises a whole other can of worms.</p>
<p>There have been numerous comparisons to expectations in college. But these are high schoolers attempting to succeed in college level courses. They should be encouraged for their ambition not demoralized. And in my personal experience in college and grad school, final projects were always referenced in class before they were due.</p>
<p>Well, for whatever reason the teacher decided that a lot of students didn’t deserve the “honors” designation because they didn’t fulfill the “honors” criteria as spelled out in the syllabus. Even if the teacher did not provide reminders or encouragement, oh well. Honors has to be earned, not assumed. </p>
<p>I see a lot of college students who think that some adult is responsible for making them successful. It annoys me no end. If you are really honors-worthy, you don’t need that reinforcement. You do what you have to do. It’s not as if the children in question are failing the class. They just aren’t being told that they merit “honors” by its institutional definition. </p>
<p>Did the teacher follow the syllabus exactly? I have a teacher who I just hate. Hate him. He had D#1 first semester and now D#2. When I asked him a question in semester 1, he attacked me, said my daughter was a liar, that he follows the syllabus and rubrics for everything. Except when he doesn’t. He was sick a lot at the end of the semester, and changed things, posted things late, didn’t keep his online grade book updated but I was supposed to check it every day even though it said my daughter had a 75% in the class yet a 100% on all tests and assignments. I was supposed to know that he hadn’t entered the grades yet so the daily average was wrong.</p>
<p>I specifically asked that D#2 not have him. Guidance counselor wrote it down in front of me, but didn’t tell me he’s the only teacher and did not contact me before assigning D#2 to his class. All the other seniors from last semester got their major projects returned but D#1 did not because then her sister would cheat. That’s what he told both my children, that they would cheat. I wrote him an email and told him that this was the reason I didn’t want him as a teacher, that he shouldn’t accuse kids of cheating, that if he wanted no one to cheat he should perhaps change the assignment (same for 5 or so years), and that I really only wanted the binder to recycle it as we had all the information on the computer so if they wanted to cheat they easily could, but that my children don’t cheat.</p>
<p>I copied the guidance counselor on the email (don’t like her either), and the principal will be getting a letter at the end of the year. I’m going to bring up that the teacher doesn’t follow the syllabus, doesn’t update the online grade system, and, I’ve learned, he can’t READ CURSIVE! He requires them to keep a journal, but can’t read my children’s journals because they write in cursive! </p>
<p>It won’t change anything for my kids, but maybe it will be a black mark on his record.</p>
<p>Did every single kid from the honors section in both classes get dropped or did a few of them make it through by turning in the assignment?</p>
<p>If every single kid got dropped, then I would talk to the other parents of the kids who got dropped and discuss whether this was worth approaching the teacher. If many of the parents agreed that it is worth talking to the teacher, then you could go as a group. There is strength in numbers. But attacking would not be good…maybe more of a “can we have a second chance?”</p>
<p>If a few kids turned in the assignment, then obviously some of the kids were on the ball and a majority of the kids were not and then I would chalk it up to lesson learned.</p>