Is this a reasonable list?

Applying to College
1

current plan:
Yale (early action)
Princeton
Penn
Brown?

Cornell
Williams
Middlebury
JHU?

Vassar
Michigan

SAT: 2220 (740 each section)
SATII: bio 800, math II 800, chem 780
AP: calc ab 5, chem 5, psych 5, physics b 4, bio 5
taking 5 aps next year
gpa: 3.9 unweighted
school doesnt do class rank

sports:
4 yrs. varsity track-- no state places, just regional and such
2yrs. jv tennis (captain second year)
2 yrs. varsity tennis (captain second year)

4 yrs. choir
2yrs. band, still taking trumpet and piano lessons

lots of service, 4 different service orgainizations at school, officer in two, summer service, hospital volunteer weekly, etc.

plus nhs, pres senior year

very good recomendations, mostly likely good essays, spent summer at cornell, another summer in europe

white girl

legacy: sibling and father for yale, plus uncles and cousins if that counts,
grandma for vassar and mich, uncle prof at JHU, cousin at brown, uncle for williams

any thoughts?

2

<p>I think you've higher-than-average chances at the schools you have listed.</p>

<p>But the colleges are very, very different. There's a striking contrast between Cornell and Williams/Middlebury, for example. Do you want a big university with 20,000+ undergrads, or a small rural LAC? The political climate between Williams/Middlebury and Vassar/Brown could not be more different. Conservative middle-class vs. experimental liberal. And Johns Hopkins? That's way down in Maryland, whereas your others stick to the North.</p>

<p>You don't have to choose your list according to where previous family members went. Pinpoint what you really want your college experience to be like. I hated being told this, it threw me for a loop, but after a lot of thinking I decided to nix the top colleges I always thought I'd go to. They really weren't suited to me. I'm more of an Amherst/Vassar/Trinity type girl, not a HYPS student. Last week you couldn't have convinced me of that for the world. Just think about it.</p>

3

<p>If you're not in-state for michigan, you need a sure bet school. I also think that Brown is quite a bit different from Penn. I agree that Vassar/Williams are far more alike than Brown/Middlebury.</p>

4

<p>You don't really have any real safeties...Vassar might be, but you need another sure bet.</p>

5

<p>yeah.. i know i'm sort of all over the place. basically because I don't really know exactly what I want. I'm basing aps on where I visited and enjoyed.. and my parents are "strongly encouraging" me to apply to vassar and jhu, so that explains that. as for williams, im not a perfect fit b/c im pretty liberal, but i like the outdoors factor, so perhaps i should apply to dartmouth, i dont know.</p>

6

<p>get a true safety. And when you visited you had to prefer one type of school (vassar/williams) to another type (middlebury/brown).</p>

7

<p>hey! we live in the same city! that's cool!</p>

8

<p>ohio state is my safety, but i'd rather not end up there</p>

<p>and the reason im applying to vassar/williams and middlebury/brown is that vassar is sort of recquired by my parents, and i like the outdoor and sports factor at williams, while middlebury and brown do fit me better overall</p>

9

<p>Well find a safety you like. Ohio has plenty of safety schools, and there must be one you could at least stand.</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
ohio state is my safety, but i'd rather not end up there

[/quote]
Then you'd better spend the time, however much it takes, to find a safety that you DO love. Especially given your list.</p>

<p>What I see is a list of "dream" schools. Each wonderful, to be sure, the among the most selective in the country. There are 3,000+ colleges in this country and outside of the top 100 the rest admit most of their applicants, and are almost sure to admit someone like you if you'd just go to the trouble of A) finding the right school B) devoting the effort to visiting and other ways to show the school you're genuinely interested. You should read the book excerpt at <a href="http://media.wiley.com/product_data.../0787979678.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://media.wiley.com/product_data.../0787979678.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If you read the boards from last year, there were kids such as andi's son who were just as capable as you but got into none of their choices. Admissions may seem random, but its not; the adcoms have reasons for the decisions they make and all the schools are looking at the exact same data from you. So my prediction is that either you'll get into several of these schools (with a decent shot at Yale due to the legacy status) or into none of them because the adcoms will all view your app the same way.</p>

<p>My take on your list is that you've chosen from some of the most prestigious colleges in the country; nothing wrong with that unless its your only criteria and goes with the attitude of "its a great school so I'll be ok there". How about class size? Type of students it attract? Location? Its not often the case that someone would be just as happy in the wilds of rural Vermont at Middlebury as they would be in the city with Yale or Penn. </p>

<p>So its your choice; the current lineup is going to result in either a choice among several admits or a "choice" of exactly one -- Ohio State. If you're ok with that, its fine. If not, you have some work ahead of you to find some more reasonable match schools and a safety you love.</p>

11

<p>Honestly, does anyone love a safety? It doesn't seem possible by virtue of the fact it is the lowest on your list. How do you turn around and love it? Wouldn't it be enough to tolerate it?</p>

12

<p>yes, I love the school I'm using as my safety. I am very against getting hooked on one school, because there are so many people who are in tears because everyone told them they'd get in. If you get rejected from everwhere else, could you go to your safety and be happy with it? It doesn't mean you'd love it like you did your other choices, but you have to live with it, and just tolerating a school you spend 4 years in is not a good thing</p>

13

<p>I love my match, Vassar. I would give the entire world a hug if I could go there. Now a safety, I would tolerate at first, but I would learn to love it. My safety's IU Bloomington, and while it isn't the highest rated university in the country, I could be happy there. As long as you love your life, and your life includes the school you attend, you will love your school, safety or not. That sounds so hippie. Oh well.</p>

14

<p>see the
[quote]
Honestly, does anyone love a safety? It doesn't seem possible by virtue of the fact it is the lowest on your list.

[/quote]
Well, its not possible if you order your list only by prestige or the ooh's & ah's you'll get when you tell everyone that's where you're going to college. </p>

<p>But a better definition of a "safety" is "a school I am certain will admit me". Is it possible that a school that isn't very selective could be your top choice? With an open mind, sure. There's 3000+ colleges and only 100 or so are very selective. For a good student, that means there's about 3000 choices out there with the door wide open. For your statement to be true, nobody could possibly prefer ANY of them to a school in the exalted 100.</p>

<p>See the thread "Who Loves their Safeties" for examples. <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=84210&highlight=love+safety%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=84210&highlight=love+safety&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

15

<p>You seem to have a list comprising of well known schools. That seems to be the only commonality. It is time to make some decisions and the best way to make a decision about your list is to start with the safety.</p>

<p>Don't apply to a school you wouldn't want to go to just because it is safe.</p>

<p>Make your list of things you want in a school, what kinds of programs do you like, do you want to be in school plays, or play on a team? Does going to concerts or to a major football game appeal to you? What subjects might you want to study or what kind of living conditions are you thinking about (4 years in a dorm that is described to be like a castle?) What size classes and how much discussion would you like.... Would an all girls school appeal to you (IF yes, Wellesly, Smith and Bryn Mayr should be on your list to consider for reach/match schools.)</p>

<p>Picking a great safety (academically and fiscally ok) is hard because you have to really know what you will settle for as a minimum, and because you are looking for a school that is a perfect fit for you but not your competition.</p>

<p>The early action at Yale looks like a smart move.. let me strongly suggest looking at Wellesley, Smith and Bryn Mayr. They are wonderful schools and the offer a top education but only to girls...so have the competition for top schools has been wiped out of the application pool for these schools.</p>

<p>Good luck in what ever you do and where ever you go. It looks like you have been working hard...keep it up.</p>

<p>0</p>

16

<p>broken link above; it should be <a href="http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/78/07879796/0787979678.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/78/07879796/0787979678.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>and to give just one example of how you could "love your safety", suppose you are fascinated by international studies. You want to learn one language, maybe more, and you want to study overseas. And you want small classes. Kalamazoo (admission rate 73%) might be just the ticket. With 1200 students, its small. And its big in study-abroad. 85% of the kids take part, and US News ranked it one of the top study-abroad schools in the country. Would this be a safety for someone like the OP? I think it would. Could it be the top choice? For some people, definitely yes.</p>

17

<p>What does it have to do with prestige. The biggest thing in my mind about settling for my safety is that it will have the least accomplished student body of the schools I'm applying to. This has to be the case for nearly everyone. Bt definition, my safety is the last school on my list in terms of where I prefer to go. Do you really believe anyone can LOVE going to their last choice?</p>

18

<p>thanks for the advice</p>

<p>i have thought about other safeties. Kalamazoo is a bit too small for me.. ive visited. Mich should be a match, at least i think. Ill probably also apply to Ohio Wesleyan and possibly UOhio, which should be match/safeties.</p>

<p>the reason my list is all over the place it just b/c im an indecisive person. ive visited a lot of schools b/c i have three older siblings, so ive gone on tours w/ all of them, and these were just schools that i enjoyed, for different reasons.</p>

19

<p>turtleracer, I'm glad to see you have an open mind about this. </p>

<p>I just thru out Kalamazoo because I had looked it up for another post and so I knew it had a specialization that could make it a top pick for some people even though it isn't highly selective. I have, of course, no idea if its matches your interests so I didn't mean it as a recommendation for you.</p>

<p>I would strongly urge you to look at some of the 3000+ colleges out there that would welcome a student like you with open arms; surely some of them are a good fit. As for indecisiveness, it goes with the territory and I'm more worried about someone who is CERTAIN of what they want at the tender age of 16-18. You are on the cusp of a big decision, and choosing a small rural LAC means forgoing the chance to go to a big urban U (or vice versa). Its only natural to wonder how to choose, to waver, and to hate to close doors. However come next spring you WILL have to choose only 1, and its better to begin working towards that decision now than to wait until next April. It's easier to make decisions like this when you have a framework. I'd suggest getting a book like "Smart Choices : A Practical Guide to Making Better Decisions" written by several noted professors that will give you an approach to weighing your options. I think you would find this book quite helpful.</p>

<p>As for suze's comment, it really begins with definitions. If you want to define "safety" as "last choice" then of course you can. Most people use the term to mean "school I'm sure will accept me". People can find colleges they love even if they aren't as selective as the top 100; its harder to say the same thing about your "last choice".</p>

<p>The second thing is to ask re-examine your assumptions about life at less selective colleges. Are you imagining it filled with bumpkins and 3rd-rate profs? I'm not denying that the hurdles are higher to get into an Ivy or top LAC. But that doesn't mean that you can't get a complete and satisfying education elsewhere. If it means that to you, then I guess I can see why you'd be disappointed.</p>

20

<p>I don't think that you can define a safety as a school that you are sure will accept you. That school doesn't exist. A safety is a school that your would be really surprised if they turned you down.</p>

<p>You do have to make sure that you have a safety that you would be satisfied to attend if necessary. It doesn't work if your attitude is that you are probably going to get into one of my reaches (which are really impossibles) or one of my matches (which are really reaches) and so I will, thank God, never have to attend my safety (which is really a match).</p>