<p>I see what you mean in a way. Knocking out all that arguable stuff that I don't feel like upsetting myself with, there are kids out there like that. I know a few and I can't stand it.</p>
<p>For example, I know a girl whose father makes a great deal because he owns a few businesses. Her mother doesn't work. Her parents paid for private school. They paid for her a brand new car when she turned sixteen and a new one every year for her birthday to replace her "old" one. They went to their vacation home in the summer and usually a big trip for spring break. When college time came, they didn't want to pay a high price for the private school she wanted to attend. So they legally separated during her junior year. Her mother still didn't work. Her father still lives with her, but wink-wink not on paper. So when she filed for financial aid, she just listed her mother. Her EFC is zero, financial aid covered her for the most part, and nothing in her life has changed. Instead of paying for college, they're buying her a condo for her to stay in during the rest of her college years and a trip to Rome this summer. This is what I'm talking about. This is the kind of thing that frustrates a kid like me that's going to be paying for her own schooling and probably won't even end up at a school she likes in the awful state of Alabama. I'd be stuck taking out about 60k for my state schools, and she's having a nice luxury life going to school for near-free. Say what you will, there's no way anyone can make that sound right to me, even with the good ole' "Life isn't fair" argument.</p>
<p>^^^It's hard to believe a teenager would have this level of detailed insight into another family's personal business. I suspect your "knowledge" is primarily hearsay and assumption. Stories other kids tell you are not necessarily the truth.</p>
<p>Right now, there's a huge discrepancy in financial aid among the different colleges. An article in the NY Times recently came out saying that the top 5 universities with the most endowments have more money than the endowments of all the rest of the colleges combined. While colleges such as Harvard are able to offer generous financial aid (as in almost 0 tuition fee) to families with incomes of $100,000, other colleges are struggling to even provide enough financial aid for the neediest students.</p>
<p>Skygirl, I'm sorry about how rude many ppl on here are, and I know life is unfair. It's not any CHILD's fault that their family's financial situation is not great, so I think everyone should stop blaming Sky because she may have trouble affording college! Think about it if everyone went by the "the child should pay for the parents' shortcomings' logic--should a child whose parents abuse him and don't care about his welfare be penalized simply because his parents weren't hardworking enough? Just because the parents are hardworking does not mean the child deserves to go to a good college if they are just spoiled materialist brats.</p>
<p>Now the argument that the children of wealthy (& by wealthy I mean rich rich upper-class with superb private schools, private tutors, etc not middle-class) deserve more merit because they have more achievements on their resume: I think a lot of students would have more time to participate in all these wonderful extracurricular activities if they didn't have to spend their time working to support their families! Furthermore, oftentimes the wealthier parents themselves help out in finding their kids more opportunities. Certain private schools are very expensive and look very attractive to colleges, and guess which kids are able to attend these private schools? Also certain private schools will raise their students' grades or allow "re-tests" because of the parents' influence. And which kids are able to afford the SAT tutors that will raise their scores?</p>
<p>This discussion should not be a 'middle-class' vs. 'financially insecure' debate. Instead it should focus on how the system is flawed. Right now, the problem is that how much someone 'deserves' to go to college is almost impossible to measure, and that college is generally not affordable enough for all of us, the entire general population, not just specific sectors of the population. The problem mainly lies with the system, not individuals.</p>
<p>I think it is perfectly fair. Also, you musn't assume everybody gets their college paid for. </p>
<p>However, even if someone could pay for all their college without a problem, scholarships should always be given to only the scholarly, simply based off of merit. It would be unfair to only give aid to the poor.</p>
<p>Taking money from the wealthy just because they have money to be taken, doesnt mean it is right to take it. People whose records are superb should be rewarded if anything. It would be stupid if excellence didnt get rewarded simply because excellence had money, and therefore didn't fit the criteria to be eligible for praise.</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong, financial aid does great things for less fortunate people, and for that it is appreaciated. But in any case, if aid is given not in a loan form, in all cases the best person should get the most.</p>
<p>If a poor person with a 3.7 gets 15k a year in aid, then the rich person with the 4.0 should get more. This being if their schools were completely equal. However, I presume a 3.5 kid from Exeter, or Andover, or some other top prep school like St. Pauls or Hotchkiss, should be awarded more money than a 3.8 student at some easy public school.</p>
<p>No, this is what she said. She was asking me why I wasn't going to school, and I explained to her that it was too expensive. Then she told me what they did in order to make things work out cause "yeah, school is expensive". I don't know her exact numbers, and I didn't claim to. All I mention is what she told me in conversations and her bragging, not in some back alley she-said, he-said. I only know the financial aid details because she told me thinking she was giving me some kind of secret advice.</p>
<p>Of course, I'm the stupid teenager that listens to stories, I know. Suspect whatever you want, and don't believe if it you want, but it's wrong to assume that I'm some kind of idiot and I don't need anyone talking down to me for simply coming into the thread with my own views and examples, or as you call it, "Knowledge".</p>
<p>We've all heard those kind of stories, often directly from the horse's mouth too. Being scrupulously honest, I truly don't understand how these scams work, and I suppose people lie about things, though I don't understand why someone would brag about doing something unethical that he really hadn't done. Anyway, two of S's close friends' fathers were pretty wealthy and held high level positions in their companies. Both of them claimed to have concocted a scheme whereby they had their employer retain their income for the year before FAFSA filing. So it appeared that they were earning nothing, but in reality their income was just being deferred for a later payout. Maybe they claimed to be establishing a start-up company or something, since in those cases it is common for people not to draw a salary at first. Now I would imagine that they had to have had significant assets in order to be able to do that, but if the plan wasn't going to benefit them, why do it and why tell people you had done it?</p>
<p>honestly, it isn't fair. i know of a few people that got ridiculous amounts of fin aid even though they really don't need the money. However, this situation often arises in the high school that I attended. There were many brilliant students in my class that couldn't afford an education at a higher school and had to resort to other colleges that provided enormous amounts of financial aid or even city schools. I come from a lower middle class to middle class family and my parents are forced to pay about 25k of the 48k my college requires. I don't think my situation is fair either, but I have to live with it. Moral is, there are many students in the same boat as you are, you just have to deal with it.</p>
<p>Skygirl -- I see that you have "polished" your syntax and upgraded your vocabulary on your most recent post, which makes me wonder about the veracity of your post here. This reads quite differently from posts on this site: "Actually speedo this problem is not limited to U.S. I heard many low income students in U.K. are foregoing higher education altogether despite having the grades. This problem should be seen in a global context as well."</p>
<p>I have been in a mad mood today and hanging in CC. Going through the threads.
I read the papers and surf the net and not a hill billy as people seem think of my ilk. Seem situation happens in Australia do u know? In India, money is used to buy admissions. If u read through my posts, I had said this should be in viewed in a global context too. And I was also answering to the guy who said welcome to American mon to the Asian poster.</p>
<p>Today, dear quariedfaciam, u will be happy to know I got contacted by the fin aid dept of a top LAC who told me they could not meet my full need and politely told me they are prepared to admit me but it will be in my best financial interest to pursue my app else where.. I withdrew my app upon their gentle suggestion. So another kid can at least hv a chance. I asked them if they can give me additional scholarships, but they said they hv already distributed them. I didn't put the college name on board so don't go hunting down the name. It is a womens college. Happy with my bad fortune? I see that if I don't fit here with the mass opinions, I am not welcomed or to speak out. I will keep my opinions to myself. Better yet, I will stop thinking. Then the purpose of education can be truly met.
I will post of all my rejections here each time I get it so everyone here can be happy.</p>
<p>Skygirl,
I wish you'd post the college's name so that other low income people would know to not waste their time and apply.</p>
<p>Am I right in assuming it is not a college that guarantees to meet 100% of students' documented financial need? Is it also a college that considers financial need as part of admissions decisions? If so, the only thing about your story that surprises me is that they bothered to tell you now that they wouldn't be able to meet your high need.</p>
<p>It's extremely hard for very low income people to gain entrance to colleges that consider financial need as part of admissions decisions. Also, it's rare for very low income to have their full need met from colleges that don't guarantee meeting 100% of their documented need.</p>
<p>While this is unfortunate, the reality is that financial concerns play a part in most students' college application decisions. There are few students except for the very wealthy who can afford to go to whatever college they could get accepted to. Many families decide before their kids apply what colleges they'd be able to afford to pay for, and the kids make their applications accordingly. That's why in my area, many of the very top students (including those with sky high grades, lots of AP/IBs, high SAT/ACT scores) either live at home and go to 2nd tier public or go to another in-state public often turning down top private and out of state public universities to do so. Even students whose parents are college professors and lawyers do this.</p>
<p>Northstarmom,
They are the ones who kept contacting me during the application process. The admissions people were very friendly throughout, sending personal emails. Probably that was the reason. Yes, before I apply to any college, I had this rule of taking both the financial aid office and admissions given my situation. So I had maintained a good rapport with this college especially.</p>
<p>Northstarmom,
I been crying today so I can't think straight right now. The college publicize it meets 100 need some time ago so I was surprised.
I post sometime latter bout the college name somewhere else somewhere people don't judge me and with lesser views. I hate tht thread is featured and admissions are going to think I am some kind of lunatic when everyone else was responsible for fueling this thread.</p>
<p>Skygirl,
There's no reason for admissions to think you're a lunatic based on this thread. You just sound like a student who doesn't have much money, has her heart set on going to certain colleges and is afraid she won't get to go to one of them.</p>
<p>Still, if the college has led you wrong, I wish you would name it so others won't waste their time applying when there's little chance they'll get the money they'd need to attend it.</p>
<p>I looked up your back posts because I'm concerned about you. Based on your Feb. post below, you need to quickly apply to some financial safety colleges that you know you'll gain entrance to and can afford. For many people, including solidly middle class people, such colleges are their local community colleges or four-year public universities that they can commute to.</p>
<p>Remember that even top LACs and Ivies take transfers from community colleges. The same is true of 4-year public universities, including those that are second tier. So, if you have to go to a local public, that doesn't mean that you'll have to spend your entire college career there.</p>
<p>Even upper middle class students whom I know who had stats like yours (and your stats are very nice) applied as back-ups to in-state public universities that they know they'd gain acceptance to and could afford. Sometimes they ended up having to turn down top 25 private universities to go to that in-state financial safety, too. While this disappointed them, they ended up adapting to where they had to go, and all of the students whom I know who did that are happy now.</p>
<p>2110 (CR 760, Math 690, Wrting 660)
SAT Subjects (bio 790, math level 2 760, chem 700 physics 690)
AP (Calc AB 5, Psychology 4, Environmental Science 4)
AP Scholar Award
GPA 3.7
Honors classes n averages ( Bio A+, Math A, Chem B+)
All the other classes are college prep levels too ig history, English
EC (volunteered at the county hospital, cross-country team,
tutored-for money, science club- committee member, was in charge of an environmental project all year)
I am in some more clubs but just a regular member.
Here are the colleges I applied : Oberlin College (my dream school!)
Colby College, Lafayette College, Hamilton, Barnard, Amherst, Brandeis
You guys probably noticed all these school are reach schools for me. This fact started to hit me this month.</p>
<p>Northstarmom, I didn't want to post my stats down here because this thread is featured. It is easy to know me. Thank goodness I didn't put my ECs in detail. And these people in this thread will start attacking me again saying I don't cut the merit, I don't deserve anything, I am whining without good cause.
I tried the public school again yesterday with emails. I gave extra essays and they had actually promised me a scholarship last year. What is wrong the picture I don't know. I tried my very best to hound them these days. The only thing is my regional officer is on leave until April.
But I have found one safety school, not sure how it will pan out though. Submitted all my stuff, and decisions are coming end of this week the lady told me. And the college has the specific major I want.
I also applied to Berea but they are hard to predict.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If a poor person with a 3.7 gets 15k a year in aid, then the rich person with the 4.0 should get more. This being if their schools were completely equal. However, I presume a 3.5 kid from Exeter, or Andover, or some other top prep school like St. Pauls or Hotchkiss, should be awarded more money than a 3.8 student at some easy public school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Are we measuring based on hard work or on grades? Many students work just as hard, if not harder than others, yet it doesn't translate on paper. Sure, they have more achievements and awards, but that is due to having more opportunity. A student who is obtaining a part time time should not have their aid reduced, and given to a student with a few more EC's and a slightly higher GPA. Merit aid should not be based on what wealthy private school you came out, but by the obstacles you have overcome.</p>
<p>^Aren't there quite a few specific scholarships for that? (I'm honestly not trying to be rude, just to make a point).</p>
<p>I do understand what you mean, but if it doesn't translate on paper in high school, it won't necessarily translate in college, either. So I can understand why the 4.0 student gets merit aid over the 3.7 kid.</p>
<p>This is the last time I am gonna comment on this thread. I was a nervous wreck felt I was being persecuted for a crime I didn't commit. There are several aspects of my life I I didn't dwell into here including my late father's work which defined me.
I am not trying my best not to let colleges identify me with my stats. But it seems I won't be left alone until I defend myself.
I lowered my ECs up there and didn't list the awards I got. Math n Chem mostly. I am involved in an independent science research project until April and I will be submitting the proposal to an private institution at end of April. I can speak in 4 languages. I am involved in 2 sports varsity n non varsity. My GPA is a kind of higher than I put up there. And I was a straight A student until my father fell ill. Well, I was most affected not by my financial status but family issues. I was very close to my father.
HisGrace, the bank came after my house too and the savings he left was used to bail out the house and bills. Life is not rosy for me either but I didn't list out all my financial problems here as some people did. I am responsible to solve those problems and I have handled okay. I live with principles and respect in my life too. I was talking about certain irresponsible rich individuals only, the number is few perhaps just certain. The middle class wanted to high jack this trend its their problem. </p>
<p>My recent essays were good, on my dad's job and what I believe. I wrote it myself without any help even in the essays thread.
And tht college who refused me scholarships has taken a somewht lesser range SAT students 1800-2000. Unlike these CC people, I will not behave arrogantly and say those scores are average. Those students' scores are good too.
Merit scholarships are a honorable gesture. Every student who receives one should know the true value and not treat it lightly, and I was referring to those few who did.
And that is the last time I speak on this matter.
If everyone have so much free time to attack me, why don't u go instead to help those kids in SAT thread to grade their essays. Nobody volunteered whn I asked then.
Nobody should vilify someone for having a different opinion. Or else we will be living in a drab world of sameness.</p>
<p>Everyone here, please don't talk about me, don't quote bout me or my information, don't discuss about me. Please respect my privacy and space. And the college that booted me without scholarships was a school I applied based on a CC parent advice.
My father's passing created financial problems to solve like any death will create but I handled it without any hand outs from anybody and I kept away from any system.
And I wasted my energy and focus on something totally useless. A whole day wasted means disaster to me.</p>