<p>My ex-wife "Sue" got a financial aid package from the school our daughter "Jane" just finished her Freshman year at, based only on her income - no contribution from me. I was told last Spring by my daughter that she got a full-ride merit-based scholarship, and that everything was "taken care of". I got no information from my ex. Fast forward to March of this year (2010) and Sue is asking for a check for half of what she paid in loans that were part of the FA package. </p>
<p>I am obligated by our divorce decree to pay for half of Jane's college, equivalent to instate tuition and fees, so Sue knew that I should be included in the FA calculations, but she hid that info from the college FA advisor. Final note, Jane insists that her mom told her nothing about the package, didn't really understand it and doesn't recall signing loan docs that are part of her package.</p>
<p>Is this fraud?
If I don't pay, then has fraud been avoided?
If it is fraud, who gets in trouble?</p>
<p>Well…maybe she wasn’t required to report YOUR finances on the financial aid application forms.</p>
<p>The financial aid application forms do not take into account your divorce decree. If your child’s school is a FAFSA ONLY school (uses only the FAFSA), your information would NOT be required on the financial aid application forms. Only the custodial parent puts their info on there (alimony and child support are listed too).</p>
<p>If your child’s school uses the Profile, your former wife (as the custodial parent) would have completed the Profile. Your info would not be on there either. If the school REQUIRED a non-custodial parent Profile, your finances would have been required on that form. However not all schools require the non-custodial parent Profile.</p>
<p>It is VERY possible that your information as non-custodial parent was NOT required by the school. In fact, unless your wife listed herself as a widow, your daughter’s financial aid applications would not have been processed without your info IF it was required.</p>
<p>NOW…if she listed you as dead…then yes…that would be fraud if your info was required and she said you didn’t exist.</p>
<p>You can easily check what the school requires by going to the college website…and then typing in “applying for financial aid” in their search area.</p>
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<p>The only documents JANE (the daughter) would have completed would have been for Stafford or Perkins loans. If her mom took out a Parent Plus Loan, Jane would not have signed anything for that. It’s a parent loan.</p>
<p>Just a quick question…is this loan more than 1/2 of the amount of instate tuition? Have you already contributed the amount you said you were going to contribute? If so, discuss this with your lawyer. If not…perhaps you should pay the amount up to half of instate costs.</p>
<p>It is unlikely to be fraud. The chances are that she is going to a school that uses FAFSA only. As Thumper says, this would not need any information from you.</p>
<p>If your wife told you IN WRITING that a full ride merit scholarship was in the works, you might want to talk to your attorney. In any case, ask for all of the bills from the college and look up what tuition and fees are for your instate college, and pay what you owe. Ask for the actual statements from the college so that you can see if any merit awards were applied to the charges. Talk to your attorney in any case to find out exactly what you are required to pay under the terms of your agreement.</p>
<p>Thanks so much for the info. Jane is attending an expensive private school that uses the College Board form. And I just looked on the website and it says “To make a fair assessment of your eligibility for institutional grants, we require the noncustodial parent to complete the Noncustodial Parent PROFILE…It will be necessary for students whose biological parents are:
Separated, divorced, or never married and
the custodial parent has NOT remarried
To notify the noncustodial parent about this requirement or supply the noncustodial parent’s email address so the College Board may notify him/her.”</p>
<p>As I said, I never received this notification.</p>
<p>Also she does have a Stafford loan for $3500.00 in her name.</p>
<p>I would discuss this with Jane’s mother. Ask her why you were never notified of the need to complete the non-custodial parent Profile. Try to keep your daughter out of this issue…this needs to be resolved with between the parents (in my opinion). </p>
<p>The only other possibility…if your daughter received MERIT aid only and didn’t apply for institutional need based aid (money from the school) it is possible that she completed the FAFSA only…that is how she got her Stafford loan.</p>
<p>I will stick my neck out…if they are asking you to pay an amount that is 1/2 of instate costs or LESS…why don’t you just pay it…since that is what the divorce decree says you are responsible to pay? There are many costs that are not “billable costs” for students attending college.</p>
<p>Again, thanks for your info Thumper. Please see my reply “Clarification” for details. </p>
<p>To answer your question, were I able to afford the cost, I would certainly pay. I make the same yearly income supporting a wife and 4 kids now, as I did when I was married to Sue and just supporting her and Jane. The divorce decree is a bit complicated and I’d rather not go into the details of my reasoning. Suffice it to say that I am a fan of Dave Ramsay and I believe that students and parents should spend their money reasonably and not get into excessive debt, sacrificing retirement money and saddling the kids with high payments right out of college. I am not averse to helping my kids through college, but I am averse to being deceived and manipulated at the cost of many of my family.</p>
<p>Thumper is right, there is a good chance that your income info wasn’t required. Most schools do not require the info of the NCP. </p>
<p>* Sue is asking for a check for half of what she paid in loans that were part of the FA package.
*</p>
<p>Was this a Parent Plus loan or a federal student loan? </p>
<p>You need to ask for a copy of the FA package.</p>
<p>I also think it’s very odd that many months went by, yet your ex never contacted you about this debt. I would make sure that in the future, she must tell you AHEAD of time before she incurs any college-related debt…otherwise, she’ll be agreeing to debt for study abroads and other things and then “billing” you later.</p>
<p>* Final note, Jane insists that her mom told her nothing about the package, didn’t really understand it and doesn’t recall signing loan docs that are part of her package.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>??? Why is your D now claiming that she knew nothing about the package when she earlier told you that she had a “full ride”???</p>
<p>What exactly was in her FA package??? You need a copy of that.</p>
<p>I find it odd that your ex didn’t tell you last spring/summer that the parents were responsible for X amount, so that you are responsible for “half x”…so that you could just pay it so she’d only have to borrow half of X (her half).</p>
<p>The University does require my PROFILE info, and in fact, to proceed without it, ex had to write a letter saying I wouldn’t be involved and requesting a waiver. She also has just sent me an email saying she wants to proceed with only submitting her information again. I do not want to be a party to fraud, ESPECIALLY if my daughter will somehow be liable.</p>
<p>mom2collegekids - Daughter says mom told her “everything is taken care of” by the full ride, except room and board, and that she thought her grandparents would be helping with that or something (this conversation was Spring 2010). So she didn’t know that her mom was taking out a big loan / would be taking out big loans all four years. And, again, she says she doesn’t recall being asked to sign any loan herself. Ex is very protective and doesn’t want D to have to worry about anything. I fear that D is being hobbled by this attitude and possibly put into a situation she will regret.</p>
<p>How is your ex wife getting this waiver? It’s not easy to do so. Schools require proof that the non-custodial parent is totally out of the picture.</p>
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<p>Is Jane’s mom asking you for MORE than 1/2 of the instate tuition and fees? If not, I’m not sure I understand why you are not paying this cost. It doesn’t matter that you are supporting others now…what matters is this is what your divorce decree obligates you to pay.</p>
<p>You need to FIND OUT if Jane is getting any institutional aid. If she is ONLY getting the Stafford loan…and only completed the FAFSA, then your info would not be required at all. If she is receiving need based aid from the college, I suggest you contact your LAWYER to find out how to proceed. </p>
<p>If you are involved in Jane’s life, see her, give her gifts, talk to her…etc…then I’m not sure how a non-custodial parent waiver would have been granted.</p>
<p>You may or may not have a right to a copy of the FA award; it depends on what the divorce decree says, but at this point, you suspect fraud. </p>
<p>I do want to clear up two things: I don’t think there’s anything odd about a once-a-yera billing since the divorce decree specifically said you would be responsible for a certain amount, so I would think you should have been planning/saving for that. (Probably under or around $10K/yr in most states. You could even have a prepaid for that.) Also, as far as I can tell, you would still be responsible if the student goes abroad. </p>
<p>I also don’t find it odd at all that the ex never contacted you to ask for your input or to tell you about $ since there was already a certain amount established. It isn’t even uncommon to have an arrangement where, once a year, after taxes are filed, divorced parents exchange financial info. </p>
<p>I don’t think the issue is whether or not you could “afford it.” I know it sounds harsh-- but this is part of an entire decree; it’s hard to judge what was bargained away or for based on one thing and, in my state, support generally favors the children from the prior relationship since the choice to make or become responsible for new children was made after the first ones were alive.</p>
<p>The issue is whether this is fraudulent and/or a legitimate college expense. I would contact my original divorce attorney (hopefully in the state where the child lives).</p>
<p>2collegewego - First of all, I do have access to the FA award. D received a large sum of need based aid, a Stafford Loan and a small scholarship.</p>
<p>Yes, we have to pay, and I have filled out the PROFILE for next year. I am willing to pay, but not at the cost of my daughter being exposed to loss of credits from her school, etc. (jail? 20k in penalties?) due to financial aid fraud. If it’s 10k I owe legally, fine. I’ll figure it out. But I want all my kids to understand the choices being made on their behalf and the impact they will have on themselves and their family members.</p>
<p>I hope you filled out the NON-Custodial parent Profile…and not the regular Profile which is what your daughter’s MOTHER should have filled out.</p>
<p>Hopefully you have completed the correct Profile for the upcoming school year…and it has been submitted to the school. That being the case, if the school suspects any inproprieties, they will contact you or the mom. </p>
<p>In the meantime, it sounds like you will need to pay your share of the costs…up to half of the fees/tuition of your state school for the current school year.</p>
<p>Yes, I filled out the correct Profile. It seems like no one has the legal expertise to advise me on this particular matter. Thanks for your time and knowledge.</p>
<p>I just want to point out that if mom took out a parent plus loan, she wouldn’t have started paying on it until after the final disbursement for this first year, which would have been around late December, and she will be paying monthly, usually over many years. I would check to see if your divorce agreement says you have to pay up front all in one lump sum, or if you can pay also over say, 10 years, like loan agreements…just a thought. You have said you are very willing to pay, just questioning the process. I think you are right to question this, since you should have been included in a more honest way from the get-go.</p>
<p>If you lived in NY, your payment would be about $3K a year. In some state, it would depend on which state university tuition is used to determine what half your payment is. If the amount you owe is NY priced, it may not be worth it for you to get into a hassle involving an attorney in this. </p>
<p>At this point, I would ask Sue to send all of her requests in writing so you have on record what she is telling you and what Jane is telling. Unless there are complexities in the agreement that involves you paying more, it’s my take that you have to pay a certain amount regardless of what Jane gets in scholarships or takes in loans or costs in school. </p>
<p>It sounds like Sue filled out PROFILE and FAFSA without including any child support or funds from you and reported you as a non present parent, getting a non custodial parent waiver. You can ask her about that. I’m not about to get involved in the issues here as to the legality and ethics of all of this. It’s up to you how much you want to pursue this.</p>
<p>OP … I’d suggest you send a PM to Kelsmom who is a college financial aid professional … she may be able to give you more specific information and advice.</p>
<p>Is the amount that your ex wants you to pay more than half of tuition/fees?</p>
<p>This could be a bad situation. Once your income and your wife’s income is added in, your D is likely going to get less aid. Since you’re only legally obligated to pay for half of instate tuition and fees, it’s likely that more money will be owed (but you won’t be legally obligated to pay). This could mean that your D no longer can afford to go to this school because your ex would have to borrow too much.</p>
<p>I’m confused. Did your ex-in-laws pay for your “ex’s share” and you’re expected to pay for the other half?</p>
<p>BTW…I would NOT cause trouble by telling the school that you would have willingly filled out the form last year. You would only make things bad for your D. </p>
<p>I don’t know why you need to get an atty involved. It’s clear, you’re supposed to pay half of instate tuition. Why waste money on an atty.</p>
<p>Your ex signed the Plus loan…you’re not obligated to pay more because SHE signed. You only have to pay your legally-defined half.</p>
<p>Perhaps he’s is concerned because the amount of money his ex is asking for is more than the amount of half the tuition and fees. By the way, is the specific branch of the state school indicated? In NY, at this time, all SUNYs have the same tuition but they don’t all have the same fees…</p>