<p>
Okay, I get it. He should have just written his check and THEN had the chat with the ex about filing any necessary papers, going forward, regarding his status as a noncustodial parent.</p>
<p>Going on what the OP has said, his daughter got a full ride merit scholarship according to both wife and daughter. Her first year was 2010-11. He was not asked to fill out PROFILE. He was not asked for 1/2 the state tuition price that was in the divorce decree. If the girl did get such a scholarship, it would make sense that he would not have to pay towards her college costs if there were no college costs. All is well.</p>
<p>Starting in January of 2010, the automatic payments of child support were no longer accepted. Yes, you can tell your bank to stop accepting automatic payments just as you can start and stop automatic withdrawals. This is a curious matter, and why the OP did not send an inquiry as to what is happening here is puzzling. After 4 returned payments, the OP stopped attempting to send child support. That means for all of 2010, Jane did not get any child support payments from her father. </p>
<p>It is now 2011 and Sue, the mom, is asking for 1/2 of what she paid in loans for this first year of college that supposedly was covered in full by merit money. There is no basis for her to ask for that amount. She is due all of the child support payments for 2010 that were not received for whatever reason, and for 1/2 the state tution cost if Jane did not get her full ride. Unless the OP has it in writing somewhere that a full ride scholarship was obtained, he has no proof that conversation ever took place. The bills from the college will clearly show what was billed and if any scholarship went towards this cost along with any financial aid and loans. </p>
<p>All of a sudden, the OP is supposed to complete a PROFILE. If it is for next year’s financial aid, it will cover the 2010 year. He did not pay any child support or give any money for schooling that year. So it will show a big fat zero from him. IF a waiver was received for 2009, any money he paid for child support was not reported to the college. Whether the waiver was legitimate or not, we cannot tell since we don’t know the details of the situation. We can only go by what the OP is saying which is that this is the first PROFILE he has had to complete.</p>
<p>The OP owes for that child support. No question of that. His reason for stopping payment does not hold water. He needed to get to the bottom of what was happening when his payments were returned, not just dance away singing “Lucky Me”. He is in the position of being sued for the child support and interest and fines in the future, and he’s gotta make good on it. My question is why Sue just stopped accepting child support payments and then did nothing all through 2010 about the situation, now putting Jane and herself in the position of being able to say that they received zip from dead beat dad in 2010. That might put them in better position of getting financial aid, certainly from federal sources if Sue is very low income. Child support payments can easily put someone over PELL limits, for instance, but if you got nothing in that area, you may well have a zero EFC, with the simplified needs test, right? As for PROFILE, though it may not make much difference if the college decides to take Dad’s means into account–they tend to look at what Dad can pay, not what he is paying according to court order or not paying, it might also substantiate any waiver that Jane got last year. It’ll show that Dad indeed does not pay a dime for Jane’s support, and that truly was the case for 2010 regardless of reason given. The school, we, anyone, only has OP’s word as to what happened, and the fact of the matter is that he did not pay.</p>
<p>So far there is no evidence of any fraud. Sue has a number of reasons she could have given for filing a waiver for freshman year. It did not involve the OP. What she put down on her financial forms are her business. Does not impact the OP at all. Sue is not asking the OP to do anything fraudulent. Just fill out the PROFILE. Also asking for money, which she is owed in the amount of last year’s child support, plus this year’s up to May and 1/2 of state university tution. </p>
<p>However, there is a distinct feeling that something is being played here. Nothing illegal about it, but clearly the OP was not being apprised of what is happening here. So what should OP do?</p>
<p>
No. He should have told his daughter and/or ex that he found out that he had to fill out a NC Profile form and wanted to know why he didn’t last year. If there was a reasonable explanation (a scholarship or something), then all he has to do is say that he filled out for this year and will be happy to do so going forward. End of it. If he didn’t like the answer, then he tells ex and daughter that they have to resolve the problem and he will leave it to them to approach the school and take it from there. The reason I brought up the amount of money not changing is that there has to be some other reason for the poster’s zealotry.</p>
<p>cpt,</p>
<p>I think that you have asked some vaild questions. The one thing I am still not sure about is did Jane get a full ride scholarship (covering tuition, fees, room boaed & books) or did she get a full tuition scholarship?</p>
<p>She may have gotten a full tuition scholarship adn once the pell and loans kicked in SUe was able to cover the cost, which would have been room, board, fees, books and personal expenses? </p>
<p>Even if Jane got a full scholarship, wouldn’t OP still be responsible for paying his half because Jane still has expenses? I can’t beleive that he is doing all of this whining over ~2500 as the school will most likely be asking him for more than this once they look at his financials.</p>
<p>
That makes total sense to me. Heck, even if she got a full-ride, there would be expenses to set-up a dorm, buy a computer, books, etc. that mom might have taken out a loan for. I know that in my family, we did spend a bit of money in the first year for our girls to set them up for college. New clothing was required for one (she had worn a uniform in high school), both had computers and bedding and so forth. I don’t see anything out of line if a student had a scholarship of whatever amount for the NCP to still contribute to some expenses. Books, alone, could eat up most of his $2500 a year even if the student had a large scholarship.</p>
<p>Sybbie, as long as he locked in at paying no more than 2500, they can ask all they want and he doesnt have to pay more. </p>
<p>He may of course have the satisfaction of watching his kid get kicked out of a school that he doesnt want his other kids applying to, watching his X get tortured, and blaming everything on X. </p>
<p>If he is 10,000 in arrears on child support, he would be better off just making certain anything he signs is correct, warning kid, and moving along. But then he wouldnt get satisfaction of watching X suffer.</p>
<p>Very good summation cptofthehouse.</p>
<p>I think you’ve got most of it except that I don’t think the OP’s ex wanted him to fill out the Profile for this year. I base this on post #8 from the OP</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’m worried that the ex wants to use only her financial information which would explain the waiver. Then she seems to want to collect money from the OP later for his portion. She can’t do that, once you say the NCP isn’t paying you’re not supposed to later turn around and collect money from him, (for college, I’m not talking about the child support).</p>
<p>Just some adjustment in the figures - I’m committed to 10K per year for college and I am in arrears on CS by about 5K, which will obviously have to be taken care of quickly. I was stupid to not question why my ex stopped accepting CS payments.</p>
<p>Also, the first year was <em>presented</em> as full-ride scholarship, but was, in fact mostly need-based aid, plus loans and a small scholarship.</p>
<p>
Absolutely true, and he needs to tell her that. Unless there isn’t a waiver, which he doesn’t know. The ex asked for money to pay back loans, which could have been necessary even with a large scholarship. The question is whether there was a waiver or whether it mightn’t have been necessary because of the scholarship. I think he should give his daughter the benefit of the doubt that she did get a scholarship until he can prove otherwise.</p>
<p>
How do you know that?</p>
<p>My daughter gave me access to her financial records - I’ve seen the bills. And the aid.</p>
<p>
Great! So why didn’t you speak with her and her mom about your concerns and arrange the best way to fix any possible problem without ruining her life before you spoke to a lawyer?</p>
<p>It has been an alternately panicked, depressing and despair-filled couple of months at my house, trying to figure out how take care of this with the least damage done. Thanks to those of you who have helped me make some sense of the pieces in front of me. </p>
<p>Here’s some back story which you are free to believe or discard as you wish. Followed by some rebutting commentary (since that seems to be a big part of this forum).</p>
<p>At the end of her senior year, my daughter wasn’t accepted to any of the colleges she wanted to attend, and the one that accepted her was low on her list and too expensive. So she decided she wanted to join a program in South Africa to work with disadvantaged kids for a semester. This was something we would have helped support her with. It was something she was really excited to do. Her mom said (paraphrasing, of course) ‘what if I get you a better FA package to that one school and take you there to see it, would you go then?’ Daughter said, ‘actually, I want to go to Africa, but I’ll go see the school to be polite.’ So off they went, the mythical ‘full-ride’ appeared, our daughter changed her mind, and the rest has been documented in this thread.</p>
<p>I believe a lot more good in terms of self-discovery and strength would have come from that trip than 4 years at an expensive school being trained in a field with an 85% unemployment rate. I’m upset that my daughter and I have been manipulated so that my ex’s dreams can get acted out through our daughter. Even so, I don’t want my ex to be paying $350/month in college loans until she’s in her 70’s when her current employment outlook is not good. I also don’t want to have to explain to my other kids, 'well, your sister Jane got to go to a fancy school because of Daddy’s stupidity and trusting nature during the divorce; but you have to go to a cheap state school because your mom and I are still married and have to live within the bounds of financial reality." </p>
<p>My ‘new kids’ though they may not be of any concern to the people on this forum are real people, not just afterthoughts who don’t matter, and who care about their sister and who are cared about by her. And my daughter is a real person who cares about her parents. She doesn’t want to be a burden on any of us. If her parents were still married, there would be no obligation to pay for her college. We would, in all likelihood, sit down and figure out what makes sense, what we could afford, and what would meet her needs, which is what I’ll be doing with her siblings. But because she’s a child of divorce, it seems the message from most of you is there’s no point in discussion, no point in consultation, no point in considering reality. Mom says she’s getting the best, most expensive education she can and damn that vindictive, selfish dad and everyone else to hell.</p>
<p>I spent most of my daughter’s childhood trying to be supportive without rocking the boat for her and her mom. I didn’t want to intrude with my own ideas, so I was just very supportive of all my ex’s choices. That did change when college discussions rolled around and I’m sure I could have been a better ex-husband in those discussions. I guess now I could continue that initial pattern, go along with the lie. I could just play along and say ‘hey, everyone’s up to their eyeballs in debt, it’s the American Way. You won’t be able to do what your degree is in because you have to get a real job to pay off those debts, so sorry about that. Oh and you’ll need to live with your mom and help support her as well.’ Or I could man up (to borrow a phrase) right now and say ‘the near future looks very painful because of mistakes and bad choices by both parents and the child. We can make sure the farther future looks better by making thoughtful, realistic decisions about what’s best for everyone. You’ll get your education, we’ll all live within our means, and if you want to go somewhere exotic to help out orphan kids instead, you can do that. And hey, when your kids are ready to go to college, we’ll probably be able to help out then, too.’</p>
<p>First of all, OP is entitled to proof of attendance at college and that there was not a full merit scholarship that he was told at some time existed, before paying his 1/2 of state tuition. He also has a moral obligation, though not a legal one to complete PROFILE, and if he does, it will indicate that he indeed did not pay anything for Jane in 2010. 2010 is over, the reason is moot. He did not get payment to Sue and did not pursue the reason in writing. She can give whatever reason she wants, as he can, and there is no proof. She could have closed her account, and told him and he did not respond. She could have deliberately had the payment returned so to have a zero child support income for 2010. No proof. The fact is simply that OP did not pay. Fact also is OP still owes. </p>
<p>So the OP should very carefully document his back support payments to Sue so that it is clear what they are, and send a letter certified to her about them. He also owes the 1/2 state tuition. End of the matter. There is no reason to call the school other than to get supporting documents as to what was owed, paid and that Jane did indeed attend there. </p>
<p>That really is the end of the matter as I see it. What can the OP tell the college fin aid office that is going to make any difference other than cast doubt on Sue’s intentions. No proof of any kind is there.</p>
<p>
That is NOT your business.</p>
<p>
Would they really know or care about that unless they’re picking that up from you?</p>
<p>CPT is right that you do have a moral obligation to make sure things are above board. The question is how you go about it and your concern (or lack of same) for what happens to your daughter. Having to leave her school under duress and without a good plan B would be awful and you could prevent that.</p>
<p>
So the ultimate goal for you here is to have your daughter leave the college. How does she feel about that?</p>
<p>I am not addressing OP’s explanations at this point, but just going on with my thought processes.</p>
<p>First of all, I have seen the situation with separated parents where the financial aid process can get duped. Non custodial parent stops making child support/alimony payments the crucial years of financial aid. Two kids going to FAFSA only schools with a mom that meets simplified needs can often net a neat $15K a year in aid making a nice windfall off the system. $5K from PELL, $5K from state, Seogh, loan subsidies, $5K from school financial aid, and maybe even more from need based awards. No PROFILE can make it sweet indeed. Well to do non custodial parent pays the bills rather than directly pay the other parent or kids. Or stash a lump sum in the bank to be used those crucial 6 year. Then split the $120k saved on the 2 kids colleg costs when it’s all over. It’s been done and it’s difficult to prove if provable.</p>
<p>The reason I think something is strange here is that when someone’s child support check stops, there is usually action. Especially if the person is needing the money. Unless something else is afoot, a person usually does not let nearly a year and a half of child support go. And this is supposedly what has happened. Shame on OP for not pursuing this further too, but what if she just didin’t cash the check and everything said was verbal? Can’t really force money on someone, but this should have been officially addressed since now it isn’t clear what happened here and will be one person’s word against the other. But the fact of the matter is that Sue will get her child support money eventually with interest, when she gets around to suing for it. And getting the money in 2011 or later, does not change the fact that she got nothing in 2010. That is a fact. And based on that fact, Jane may get PELL, TAP and any other FAFSA based monies. The other thing that struck me as peculiar is the request for OP to pay the loans that Sue took out. Not a request for the child support money or the college money that is documented and legally required, but to pay the college loans. That would not show up in any of Sue’s accounts done that way and unlikely to be found during any verification process. Pretty nifty, huh? Only problem is that OP was not in the loop and is feeling duped.</p>
<p>If I were more talented that way, I could write a song to the tune of “50 Ways to Leave Your Lover” as “50 Ways to Get Some Money” all relevant to the financial aid process. Separations, and small family businesses have a wealth of hidey holes. All legitimate but sneaky and the problem with it is intent, which is virtually unprovable. The only problem is that when someone smells “rat” and the fin aid office gets a whiff, they have the power to shut things down whether they can prove a rodent in the cast or not.</p>
<p>I know women who have pursued Xs for years for CS and gotten nowhere (one for 16 Years), including:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>My favorite, the dentist who claimed he lost 3 Million gambling in the Caribbean and could no longer work.</p></li>
<li><p>Various people who work off the books, dont have bank accounts, work for family busineeses, put business in second wife’s name.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>To say that Sue will, not likely will, not may, get her money in the end is just not true.
It happens. Of course OP could have forced the issue. He could have had withholding through NYS and let them handle it. Easy Peasy.</p>
<hr>
<p>Why would someone not pursue? If X is so controlling that other parent couldnt take it anymore?</p>
<p>
And that all makes a great deal of sense, but I’m sure you could come up with a totally different scenario based on the facts presented if you really wanted to. The question isn’t so much what happened before, but what to do going forward, and how to protect the daughter. I’m just not seeing any great desire on his part to make sure she isn’t harmed.</p>
<p>*What they will do is discuss the information of his non-custodial profile with him and tell him how much they are expecting him to pay, regardless of what his court order may say. Is he willing to do that?</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>I’ve heard that a couple CSS schools do this, but in many/most cases only one family contribution is given and it’s up to the 2 families to determine how much each will pay (which is silly since the amount is based on 2 different families’ income/assets)</p>
<p>*Hopefully OP does realize that in the State of NY, Jane has a right to child support until her 21st birthday. *</p>
<p>I’m wondering if the mom declined accepting child support payments in 2009 to make it “look right” when she went for the NCP waiver. However, now that the OP has done what he’s done and the “family contribution” will rise, I can imagine that the ex will go back to demanding that the OP pay for both child support and half the instate fees/tuition. </p>
<p>**could it also be that his ex is similarly unreasonable? </p>
<p>That’s the likely situation. The difference is that the ex wife-s unreasonable behavior is of no consequence to either the poster or their daughter, whereas the poster’s unreasonable behavior could have spectacularly awful consequences for the daughter. Which is why he has to stop, consider and move slowly upon his suspicions.*
*</p>
<p>I agree. I think no real good is going to come out of all of this…only bad. </p>
<p>*I also don’t want to have to explain to my other kids, 'well, your sister Jane got to go to a fancy school because of Daddy’s stupidity and trusting nature during the divorce; but you have to go to a cheap state school because your mom and I are still married and have to live within the bounds of financial reality." </p>
<p>*</p>
<p>I suspected that this was part of your problem all along. </p>
<p>However, Jane’s ability to go to this pricey school has NOTHING to do with you really since YOU are only obligated to pay for HALF of a state public. When your younger kids go to school, if you tell them that they have to go to a state school then that will mean that you will have to pay ALL of that state tuition…so you’d be paying MORE. This private cannot obligate you to pay more than what you’re legally required to pay…which is half of a state school…which is cheap. </p>
<p>This is NO DIFFERENT from if your ex was paying $45k for the pricey school and you were expected to contribute only $5k. Jane would be going to pricey U while your younger kids would be going to state schools.</p>
<p>My ‘new kids’ though they may not be of any concern to the people on this forum are real people,</p>
<p>Of course they are “real people”…no one is questioning that. However, the stork didn’t bring them nor did you find them on your doorstep. This is a very common situation…parents divorce, remarry, make more babies, and then are very upset how the expenses of the children from the first marriage “affect” the second family. YOU knew about your legal obligation yet you chose to have 3 more kids. I dont’ know what Dave Ramsey would say about that, but I wouldn’t say that was very wise if money is an issue.</p>
<p>*It has been an alternately panicked, depressing and despair-filled couple of months at my house, trying to figure out how take care of this with the least damage done. Thanks to those of you who have helped me make some sense of the pieces in front of me.
*</p>
<p>OMG…stop the drama. If you’ve been panicked, depressed, and filled with despair these last few months then you sound incredibly unstable and ridiculous.</p>