Is this what I have to look forward to?

<p>So this past weekend, we killed four birds with one day trip to Philadelphia.</p>

<p>One of the activities was an info session and tour of Penn, where I spent 4 good years decades ago. SevenDaughter is only a rising junior, but we figured that visiting Penn as well as my wife’s alma mater (a New England LAC) this summer was a good “baby step” in terms of jumping into the college search/application process.</p>

<p>Here are a few things I observed:</p>

<ul>
<li>For starters, 750+ people in the info session...maybe 1000 even</li>
<li>People arriving 20 minutes+ late to session</li>
<li>Parents/kids taking serious notes (like a few paragraphs using an iPad) in the info session</li>
<li>Parents and kids asking “If you’ve made this effort to be in this room, how could you be asking such a basic question about the school/the process?” type questions</li>
<li>Parents and kids asking mercenary “How do I get in?” type questions</li>
<li>When asked by AO in info session how many schools each family had visited so far, there were more than a few whose hands were still up at the “10 or more” prompt</li>
<li>Student tour leader contradicting factoid stated by AO in info session</li>
</ul>

<p>If this is the sort of thing I have to look forward to, I may have to let my wife run point on the college thing while I focus on the BS thing for younger daughter.</p>

<p>Apologies for the vent/rant…someone please tell me that it gets better or perhaps that not all college info sessions/tours are like this…</p>

<p>^^
I and my D were also part of the thousands of visiting applicants at Penn last Saturday, and yes we were late for the info session!!! (Parking was a complete nightmare). However, since all college info sessions are starting to sound alike, that did not seem like much of a problem.</p>

<p>I was also impressed by the huge herds of applicants - more than 50 in my tour group, and 20 or more other tour groups constantly buffetting us from every side for the whole hour. Did not see a dorm room, classrooms, or much beyond the huge auditorium filling and emptying by the hour, and a nice walk around campus and thru Wharton lobby.</p>

<p>Philly was fun though, and the Penn campus is lovely! If actually admitted, my D figured she will have to spend time during the school year to get a feel for the students. </p>

<p>After visiting one of our state schools with 4500 in the open house info session, I am much more sympathetic to admissions officers dealing with the tide of applicants in person, and all their applications.</p>

<p>@2prepMom: I guess I had the advantage of having gone to the school (albeit years ago)…so I knew that parking could be a nightmare. We opted to park at the Penn Museum garage…a bit of a walk, but no fighting traffic or searching for an open spot.</p>

<p>What surprised me most about the latecomers was that a few asked people to get up so that they could get into an interior seat. Wouldn’t you just walk to one of the open rows (there were certainly still a few up front stage right) so as not to inconvenience people?</p>

<p>It was our first college visit, and my wife had to reprimand me for pouting most of the time. At my own alma mater, for pete’s sake! ;-P</p>

<p>I guess I’m spoiled by the intimacy of BS visits…even at the “large” schools.</p>

<p>I wonder how the admissions officers even make their decisions… when there are that many applications to sift through… Scary.</p>

<p>I thought I was clever walking through a few campuses as we happened upon them this summer… no official tour, etc. Just a chance to see what college feels like. I was glad we are far away time-wise. Well - at least I thought so until I read these posts! :-)</p>

<p>Aren’t there hidden gems in the college world? Bet there are fewer applicants or visitors there. I am serious. For those of you who have already taken the path less travelled in the BS world, if you have liked your experience in a hidden gem, why not bypass those big name colleges from early on, saving the headaches? You know better, after all, than those who are still “name obsessed”.</p>

<p>Jesus, visiting Penn doesn’t mean hidden gems are not on the list. Also, when kids grow up, their needs change. Someone who prefers a hidden gem BS may very well be fine with a name brand college or vice versa. Looks like “hidden gems BS posts” are getting Andover parents all riled up. :D</p>

<p>@Benley: Despite the thinly veiled dig in in your last sentence, I agree with your suggestion. In fact, I have had pretty much this exact discussion with my wife and daughter. Two years from now, when my older girl’s college process is all said and done, I’ll be sure to update my “One Family’s Search” thread with our experience and outcome.</p>

<p>@pwalsh: Thanks for your post. We visited Penn because I went there and have some familiarity with the campus. At this very early stage in our “looking at colleges” process, I wanted my daughter to see a large urban university that she could contrast with my wife’s suburban LAC. While she may not apply to either in the end, I think these two visits will at least give her a feeling of what different types of school settings are like and we can tailor our next steps from there.</p>

<p>SevenDad, I sensed you were annoyed by the way college application process has become, and I think your sense is accurate for the big name colleges in particular (so yeah things may not get better when you continue on this process). I was suggesting you to “bypass big names” from the beginning if you would. The thing is since you had gone through the BS search process and thoroughly reflected on your experience, you might be able to take an approach that many other families who didn’t have the kind of experience you’ve had with BS wouldn’t. </p>

<p>Sorry for the “name obsessed” in the last sentence of my last post. I realize how it sounds like. I meant some people who have not had the kind of experience and thinking you have had (especially who haven’t been exposed to the “name or fit” debate on CC) tend to start the process being “name obsessed”. And I don’t think I’m one of them although I have had good experience with a brand name school and no experience (good or bad) with a hidden gem so I’m certainly not in a position as you are where I could suggest myself to “bypass big names” from the beginning. Hope it makes some sense. If it doesn’t, I hope I have dispelled some misunderstanding at least.</p>

<p>@Benley: Appreciate the clarification. I do think that MANY new to the BS process/idea folks come in with only the big names on their list…and that is borne out by the waves of newbies I’ve seen come to the forum asking about them exclusively. Where I think many are misguided is in their thinking A) that they have a better than average chance of kid getting admitted to one of the super selectives; B) only the super selectives are worth exploring (especially for high achieving kids).</p>

<p>FWIW, I have suggested to my daughter that Deep Springs (still not coed!) be on her short list. Because I’m crazy like that.</p>

<p>I thought deep springs was going coed soon.</p>

<p>Ah, Deep Springs! We received their “recruiting pamphalet”. It does stand out from other colleges, except, why did I feel it sounded like a training ground for CIA agents? :)</p>

<p>@neato: I think that the co-ed movement was stymied by the courts until 2015…which would be perfect timing, in some ways. One thing that I have against Deep Springs is the fact that students have to find a school to finish out their college education if they want to go for the traditional 4 years.</p>

<p>@Benley: Or any number of three letter agencies/DEVGRU?</p>

<p>One thing I did learn at the info session that I did not know was that Penn meets 100% of need without any loans mixed into the package.</p>

<p>Extrapolating this to BS, it helps me understand a little bit more why people might gravitate toward the bigger name schools. But of course, some of the richer LACs also have the means to offer similar FA packages.</p>

<p>750-1000 is more than Ive ever seen at any Info session. I just went to one at UWisconsin, and that is one big school, but there weren’t that many people there. So I’m puzzled by that number. At orientation, yes. But not at any college visits. </p>

<p>But the rest, yes. And it can get old after doing a few of these. Especially when you have as many kids as I have and have been doing this for about 15 years now.</p>

<p>Agree with the thought that one info. session is much like the other. The one exception–and yeah, a big name, sorry all–was Dartmouth’s, where the AO leading the session was refreshingly candid (paraphrasing one memorably candid answer to a parent’s question: yes, we superscore–because we want to look good in national rankings just as much as you want to look good to us). This was also the only time I ever heard the very reasonable admission that while it looks like applicants applying ED have an edge over those applying RD, once all the athletes applying ED are taken out of the pool, the admit rate is actually pretty similar. </p>

<p>Dartmouth aside, we tend, at this point, to skip the info. sessions and go straight to the tours. Websites contain most of the college-specific info. offered at the session, and how many times do students need to hear advice on how to write a good essay?</p>

<p>And if you’re looking for Hidden Gems, check out liberal arts schools in the Midwest, particularly Iowa and Minnesota.</p>

<p>H and S15 just came back from U. Chicago and Northwestern.They were week day tours and not too crowed but we think we may skip the info sessions for futures tours. They all start to sound the same and all the info is on line anyway. Most annoyance for husband was to hear some very stupid questions being asked by parents. There is a thread dedicated to the topic in the college parents section - very humorous.</p>

<p>

One thing you should keep in mind is that colleges tend to be a lot less generous than boarding schools. Some families that have received good FA from their BS may find it hard to “make their case” even to HYP, the Ivies that are supposed to be the most generous. So, if you really want to go after money, find colleges that offer merit-based scholarships, instead of relying on the Ivies+'s need-based aid. And I agree with Classicalmama, schools like Grinnell and Carleton are considered hidden gems in the college world. Check out the “Parents Forum” on CC. From time to time, there are threads where posters talk about those schools that sound very similar to what you say about your D’s school and other hidden gem BS’s.</p>

<p>@SevenDad: The more prestigious the college, the better the people-watching. Just saying. It’s a silver lining for those of us who like to observe our fellow man. A lot of the nuttiness is out of the control of the admissions people. It’s just random luck which determines who shows up for a tour and info session on any given day.</p>

<p>For urban schools, parking is usually difficult, so allow extra time to park and find the info session. Info sessions tend to be moved without warning, so don’t budget time down to the minute. You’ll often need 15 minutes extra.</p>

<p>Info sessions are usually too long. Most of the information is available on the website. There’s often a rah-rah section in the AO’s talk about how wonderful the college is. Every once in a while, a student asks a good question. The mercenary “how do I get in” questions are rare. </p>

<p>The more science and engineering oriented colleges seemed to have more functional visitors, on the whole. The most prestigious liberal arts colleges we visited were more likely to have a few kids who were absolutely cracking under pressure, accompanied by parents asking the “how do I get in” questions. </p>

<p>Tours and info sessions can be very large, when everyone’s on vacation. Use the private school breaks to visit colleges when the public schools are in session.</p>

<p>@classicalmama: I actually liked the Penn AO and her presentation, and thought she had some good advice that might be worth writing down. Her opening gambit about the history of the school and Ben Franklin though…puzzling that people would feel like they had to take notes about that?!?</p>

<p>@muf123: Your point about most of the info being online is so true. Which is why I found some of the questions and note-taking odd. I caught myself doing a Seth Myers/Amy Poehler-esque “Really?” routine. I’ll “graduate” to the college forum soon enough…but truthfully find some comfort in hearing from BS parents with whom I’ve gotten familiar over these years. Thanks for the tips on skipping the info session and going straight for the tours…</p>

<p>@Benley: Thanks for the heads up. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out. A few kids from SAS have gone to UNC on the Morehead-Cain scholarship in recent years, so it seems SAS is good at finding those sorts of merit-based opportunities for kids who might qualify for them.</p>

<p>@Periwinkle: Thanks for the tips on timing of our visits. Note that I don’t really hold the size or the behavior of the crowd against the AO/Penn. I guess was very unprepared for the scale of things, though. And I’m not a super big fan of crowds to begin with.</p>

<p>@All: I think my less than favorable reaction to our recent Penn tour was informed by a combination of the following: A) the realization that we’ll have to start thinking about the college search/apply process very soon; B) the realization that the applicant pools are going to be an order of magnitude larger than they were in the BS process; C) the realization that some families seem to take a very very intense approach to this; D) we live in an area where some families are constantly in a “what are you doing to prep your kid for the college process” mode. Sigh.</p>

<p>SevenDad, I think you can relax. Stop talking with the parents who are obsessing about the college process. Really. </p>

<p>The prep schools do a great job of helping students to find colleges which fit them. Once your daughter has worked out a list with her college counselor at SAS, you’ll find the process much easier. Remember, right now you’re just in “this is a big school, this is a small school” mode. </p>

<p>I think most prep schools start the process officially in the late winter of junior year. You will be visiting colleges in March of junior year. At that point, you’ll be working from a more targeted list. There won’t be the enormous crowds of late August.</p>