Is UC Berkeley underrated?

[RML]

<p>^ You’re making prestige synonymous to = popular or well-known, which makes you wrong. Sorry.</p>

[noimagination]

<p>prestige = a high standing achieved through success or influence or wealth</p>

<p>standing = social or financial or professional status or reputation</p>

<p>reputation = the general estimation that the public has for a person</p>

<p>So, prestige pretty much equals public opinion. Those definitions are from Princeton WordNet.</p>

[ring_of_fire_1]

<p>

@RML

xiggi,</p>

<p>The best metrics for me in evaluating academic institutions are the following:

1. Academic Prestige - 25%
2. Faculty Resources - 20%
3. Student Quality - 20%
4. Facilities - 20%
5. Contributions to Society/Research Output - 10%
6. Financial Resources - 5%

1. This exists. It’s called PA. And it’s basically what’s keeping Berkeley in the top 50 universities.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>This exists as well and it’s measured PER CAPITA and I don’t believe it helps UCB in the way you intend it to. You don’t get points for having Nobel Laureate professors or top researchers.</p></li>
<li><p>This wouldn’t help UCB either.</p></li>
<li><p>How would you measure this? If it’s per capita, UCB’s ranking would suffer tremendously.</p></li>
<li><p>HAHAHAHAHAH! How does this relate to the university’s quality of undergraduate EDUCATION whatsoever? This just means that they are getting points for being a big research school. Do you want to actively penalize private schools?</p></li>
<li><p>Sure. whatever.</p></li>
</ol>

[ThisCouldBeHeavn]

<p>

That was not my point. My point was that a school considered to be highly prestigious somewhere may not be regarded as prestigious elsewhere.

</p>

<p>But Tehran University isn’t prestigious in the U.S. because there are simply better schools here. It’s not a matter of being placed in a different place on the scale, it’s a completely different scale.</p>

[Morsmordre]

<p>RML, no you’re not reading my argument right. I said you can not have prestige without being well-known but that’s not the end all be all. You need quality too. But you cannot have one without the other to be considered prestigious.</p>

<p>Well anyway, that is my opinion why Berkeley is underrated not just on USNWR but in general.</p>

[kivanovasweet]

<p>This thread has gone a little far in arguing over matters of opinion. Sure there are some facts involved but most of it is based on factors that have varying degrees of importance. </p>

<p>Is Berkeley underrated? On this site, maybe. Otherwise? I don’t think so.</p>

[RML]

<p>

prestige = a high standing achieved through success or influence or wealth

</p>

<p>Harvard has attained those, right? That means Harvard is prestigious, right? Harvard is prestigious. Period. You would fight for it when you go to Cambodia and people there will tell you that Harvard is a crappy school. You would probably just laugh out at those people when you hear them say that Harvard is crappy because you knew that it isn’t true. See, when it’s prestigious it’s prestigious. People who knew that it’s prestigious would fight for it because it’s what is true. </p>

<p>Now, whether some people in Antarctica have heard of Harvard or not won’t affect its status as a prestigious school. Harvard is prestigious. Period. It may not be popular or well-known is some areas. But that doesn’t make Harvard less prestigious, does it? ;)</p>

[kb10]

<p>Oxford and Cambridge, btw, are both public universities.</p>

[GoBlue81]

<p>

Get rid of alumni giving. … why doesn’t alumni giving represents the value the alumni places on his or her education and the success gained after graduating?

Not the way USNWR defines Alumni Giving:</p>

<p>“Alumni giving. The average percentage of undergraduate alumni of record who donated money to the college or university. Alumni of record are former full- or part-time students who received an undergraduate degree and for whom the college or university has a current address.”</p>

<p>It gives no credit to the size of the donation, that is, a $10 donor is counted the same as a $10 million donor. That can’t be right. If an alum donating $100 is a happy alum, one can conclude that an alum donating $1,000,000 is much happier and more successful.</p>

<p>Also, the base is defined as “alumni of record… for whom the college has a current address”. This is subject to interpretation. For example, university record shows almost 1000 alumni living in my city, although we never have more than 150 showing up at any alumni functions. Some of the addresses are hopelessly outdated.</p>

<p>A fairer way is to have a more defined guideline for the base, like the master mailing list for general fundraising, or active member lists of worldwide alumni associations, etc.</p>

<p>p.s. The current system can be gamed. For example, I can think of several ways where universities like Cal or Michigan can add 50,000 donors or more over night.</p>

[ring_of_fire_1]

<p>

@RML

Harvard has attained those, right? That means Harvard is prestigious, right? Harvard is prestigious. Period. You would fight for it when you go to Cambodia and people there will tell you that Harvard is a crappy school. You would probably just laugh out at those people when you hear them say that Harvard is crappy because you knew that it isn’t true. See, when it’s prestigious it’s prestigious. People who knew that it’s prestigious would fight for it because it’s what is true.</p>

<p>Now, whether some people in Antarctica have heard of Harvard or not won’t affect its status as a prestigious school. Harvard is prestigious. Period. It may not be popular or well-known is some areas. But that doesn’t make Harvard less prestigious, does it?

Listen, prestige is a relative thing. Harvard is the most prestigious university in the world because more people have heard of it AND recognize it for its educational/academic excellence than any other school in the world.</p>

<p>If suddenly due to some catastrophe, Harvard lost a lot of name recognition and respect among the world’s population, then it would seize to be a prestigious insitution.</p>

<p>Prestige is related to REPUTATION and not ACTUAL QUALITY. PERCEPTION IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ACTUAL QUALITY.</p>

<p>

@GoBlue81

It gives no credit to the size of the donation, that is, a $10 donor is counted the same as a $10 million donor. That can’t be right. If an alum donating $100 is a happy alum, one can conclude that an alum donating $1,000,000 is much happier and more successful.

Alumni giving is supposed to measure the happiness of the overall alumni base. So, just because some rich alumni donate a lot of money, that doesn’t say anything about the satisfaction of the overall alumni base of an institution.</p>

[RML]

<p>It’s impossible to indulge in a nice conversation with people like ring<em>of</em>fire. Somehow, they seem close-minded. But it’s what they are and what they believe in. Let’s just all respect that.</p>

<p>Going back to the topic: On CC, yes, Ive observed that Berkeley is underrated just like all the other great State Us are. But in the real world, I think it’s not. Most of the major companies to go campus to recruit their graduates, including the big name ones.</p>

[GoBlue81]

<p>

Alumni giving is supposed to measure the happiness of the overall alumni base. So, just because some rich alumni donate a lot of money, that doesn’t say anything about the satisfaction of the overall alumni base of an institution.

Then you have to ask yourself how come you don’t have more rich/successful alumni giving a lot of money.</p>

<p>And if your school ranks high in % alumni giving but low in total amount of gifts, it raises the question whether your school is gaming the system … you know, like Clemson tried to do.</p>

[amciw]

<p>

@RML

It’s impossible to indulge in a nice conversation with people like ring<em>of</em>fire. Somehow, they seem close-minded. But it’s what they are and what they believe in. Let’s just all respect that.

</p>

<p>This is a rather ironic statement coming from you.</p>

[hawkette]

<p>RML,
I’m not sure what media you consume on a regular basis, but given that you have spent virtually your entire life outside of the USA, I wonder about your familiarity with and appreciation for the many great undergraduate colleges all across the USA. We truly are blessed to have such great breadth-North, South, East, Midwest and West. For UNDERGRADUTE study, UCB is generally not exceptional within this universe of colleges. </p>

<p>Yes, UC Berkeley deserves its excellent reputation overall as a university, though much of this I and others would ascribe to the strength of its graduate programs. I don’t think anyone is arguing that. However, if you live or work or go to a college in almost any section of the USA east of Denver, I suspect that the vast majority of folks would not include it on their list of top American UNDERGRADUATE colleges. Perhaps this is due to lack of familiarity due to low media coverage and/or the low numbers of OOS students at UCB. But I would claim that it is also due to the fact that these Americans are familiar with and appreciate the college quality in their backyards. </p>

<p>The same would be true in reverse with Californians. How many can even name the eight Ivies or are that familiar with great private colleges like Northwestern or U Chicago or Emory, not to mention the outstanding publics of U Virginia, U North Carolina, W&M, etc. </p>

<p>Pointing this out is not meant to knock UCB. It is meant to educate you and others that might not have the longstanding, direct exposure to understand that in the USA, there are many colleges that are terrific UNDERGRADUATE options. Many of those would be superior choices to what UCB has to offer. </p>

<p>And I’m not even talking about the LAC universe of schools. If a student wants that type of environment for his/her undergraduate years, there is almost no way that a school the size of UCB can compete for that student, and almost certainly not the way that another national university like Brown or Rice or Wash U or W&M could. </p>

<p>So, faculty research rep? Yeah, UC Berkeley is great. If a student is seeking that, then UCB might be one of his/her best options. However, after that and for nearly all other comparisons on UNDERGRADUATE metrics, UCB is going to going to have its hands full (and then some) in competing with a large number of other highly-ranked universities. </p>

<p>Goblue,
I’m glad to have the opportunity to agree with you. Alumni Giving is a bogus measurement. It shouldn’t be included for the publics…unless you are willing to accept the argument that their giving rate is 100% from all of there IS students/taxpayers.</p>

[middsmith]

<p>[The</a> East, The West, and The Ivy League - Ideas Special Report](<a href=“http://ideas.theatlantic.com/2009/06/the_east_the_west_and_the_ivy_league.php]The”>http://ideas.theatlantic.com/2009/06/the_east_the_west_and_the_ivy_league.php)</p>

<p>

My own final abstraction was the Ivy League, a group of institutions I knew nothing about for most of my life save the fact that Harvard and Yale were among them. As late as age 26, when I began looking at Columbia University for graduate school, I never thought of it as being in the Ivy League, nor did I put Brown, Princeton or the University of Pennsylvania in those categories. I’d scarcely heard of Cornell or Dartmouth until I moved to the East Coast.
Asked to name the most prestigious school among UC Berkeley, Brown, Cornell and UPenn, Berkeley would’ve won the day, except that one never would’ve been asked to make that judgment, let alone to internalize it.

</p>

<p>And then there’s this non-HYP Ivy grad who made this comment about a Berkeley grad.

“It’s okay Mike,” he said, “we know you just went to a state school.”
The remark was spoken as a joke. But it struck Mike and I the moment we heard it - we made eye contact, both of us thinking, “Whoa, the East Coast is different–I don’t know whether it’s weirder that they have a disparaging category called ‘state school’ or that they’re inclined to put Berkeley into it, but it never would have occurred to me that there could be a joke like that.”

</p>

<p>So there, it is underrated by some non-HYP Ivy grad. How unfortunate, his current classmates went to a state school.</p>

[mikecerang]

<p>bump…</p>

[mikecerang]

<p>So the answer to this thread is…
In the public eye, it is not underrated
In the USNWR, it is underrated and should be around Top 15
Go Bears!!!</p>

[dstark]

<p>mikecerang, good luck at Berkeley. What are you thinking of majoring in?</p>

[RetardedBear]

<p>Its so hard to get a good GPA at Berkeley…</p>

[katliamom]

<p>don’t tell it to hawkette – she thinks your school is over-rated and your work under-par 'cos, you know, anywhere east of Denver Cal is not considered exceptional ;)</p>