Is UChicago safe for a teen?

Parents Forum
1

<p>Prior to dropping our D off at her summer program at Northwestern, our family had an opportunity to take a casual visit to Hyde Park and UChicago this past weekend. I know UChicago also has some summer programs that D might want to do in the future and we wanted to check out the neighborhood and campus both out of curiosity and because we wanted to make sure we felt comfortable sending a teenager to a summer program there. My wife did her graduate work at UPenn in the early 90s, and people have made comparisons between the neighborhoods around the two schools. </p>

<p>We had two impressions that surprised us. First was how beautiful Hyde Park and the campus were (the kids commented on the similarity to Hogwarts) and second how quiet it was. It was a Saturday afternoon, and most of campus was eerily quiet. Admittedly, it had been drizzling all day and finally stopped raining, but nevertheless, it was surprising to see so few people up and about. We later went up to Northwestern and there were lots of people around.</p>

<p>We ate lunch at Medici and really enjoyed the whole place, except for one guy asking for spare change. </p>

<p>Frankly, I found the comparison with UPenn way off the mark. Hyde Park is much nicer and it seemed much safer than West Philadelphia was around 15 years ago. We've been back to Philly often (though not West Philly) and still find it much grittier than the impression we got of Hyde Park. Even the surrounding area (we didn't go too far west past the park, but more north and south) was far less run down than the area outside the "normal boundaries" of Penn (North of Walnut, or West of 48th st). </p>

<p>Can anyone comment on our first impressions of Hyde Park? Was our impression too rosy? Would you let a teenager do a residential summer program there?</p>

2

<p>If your daughter has common sense and is pretty mature, she'll do fine. Hyde Park has gotten much nicer than it had been previously, though there are still problems with poverty, homelessness, and some crime. Overall, it is a nice, normal American neighborhood. Violent crimes are rare and can normally be avoided by using common sense, such as not walking alone at night, particularly off campus. The University will report incidences to students with safety suggestions (coming to mind are assaults against male students that happened this year during daylight in the afternoon). If you go south of campus, you will enter a very bad section of Chicago, but students almost never need to go south of campus.</p>

<p>Security at the U of C is excellent. The campus police force, for instance, is the largest private police force in the world, 2nd to the Vatican. Hyde Park is double patrolled by both the UC police and the Chicago police. Dorm security is very tight, and no one (not even students) can enter a dorm that they do not currently live in without being signed in by a current resident. Dorms are kept secure by repeated areas to swipe an ID card as well as a 24 hour desk clerk who must look at the student IDs of every student who enters. The University had emergency response plans for wide-scale events before September 11, 2001 and before Katrina. Text messaging and other alert systems were being developed before the incidences at Virginia Tech, at which point the project was sped up and completed. I think that the University is extremely safety-conscious, and keeping in mind that it is still a very urban area, the University has made it quite safe. </p>

<p>By the way, if you visited in the morning, people were probably still sleeping! Many, many students stay in Chicago for the summer, but most people live in apartments in Hyde Park, so it's hard to look at campus and see students all together since they tend to spread throughout Hyde Park.</p>

3

<ol>
<li><p>Of course Hyde Park is "safe" for a teen. It's not hermetically sealed, and it's certainly possible to get hassled or even mugged. It's in a big city; a certain amount of caution and awareness are a good idea. But I don't think you'll find too many instances of Chicago students who are victims of serious crimes.</p></li>
<li><p>I suspect you are misjudging the comparison between Chicago and Penn based on superficial appearances. Within the city of Chicago, the Chicago campus is relatively isolated and a little bucolic. Penn is adjacent to downtown Philadelphia and is effectively integrated with it; it is traversed by big streets with lots of through-traffic and sits astride multiple subway, bus, and train lines. So it comes across as much more urban. But at Chicago, there are relatively few things to do in Hyde Park, and to get anywhere else you have to travel through some pretty challenged neighborhoods (unless you sail). Penn has similar neighborhoods in the area, but there's no particular need to visit them. Students can walk for miles in the directions they would generally want to go without leaving a bustling, affluent neighborhood.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Also, I think Penn is a little more insulated from "bad" neighborhoods than Chicago. North of Penn is Drexel, and north of Drexel is a thinnish band of university-ish housing, and then the crummy neighborhoods start. West/southwest of Penn is pretty nice through about 49th street, which is at least a mile and a half from the western edge of the campus. South is the hospital complex, and east is Center City. At Chicago, if you cross the park to the west or walk more than a couple of blocks south of campus, you're in an area where most students won't feel comfortable.</p>

<ol>
<li> Chicago is a significantly smaller university than Northwestern, and has fewer and lower volume things going on in the summer. It never seems crowded, exactly, and I'm not surprised you didn't see a lot of foot traffic.</li>
</ol>

4

<p>D and I went to accepted student's weekend, and while there, here roommate's boyfriend walked her because one of the students was mugged at knifepoint the day before (in broad daylight). She was told by the admins and the students not to go anywhere alone on the fringes of the campus, and never at night. We visited our cousins while there, who are police, and work out of the downtown precinct. They told D not to attend, that a lot of the crime was kept quiet, and that she should keep their phone numbers handy if she went there, but they wouldn't advise it, maturity notwithstanding. D was devastated to hear that, because she also fell in love with the school. That said, my best friend attended there for grad school in the 70's when the neighborhood was worse, (lived in an apartment in the neighborhood nearby) and nothing happened to her. And when we attended in the spring, on a sunny day, the mall was full of kids playing frisbee and football, etc. The FA package wasn't good enough, so we never had to make the decision. Good luck!</p>

5

<p>To be clear: My daughter is a Chicago undergraduate. She lives in Hyde Park about a mile off campus, as do most of her friends. Her freshman dorm was a couple of blocks off the campus grid, too. She walks everywhere, often very late at night, often alone, and travels around the city on public transportation. Nothing remotely bad has happened to her, and I haven't heard of anything bad happening to any of her friends, either. None of them lives in fear.</p>

6

<p>One of D's best friends is a rising junior at U/Chicago. No problems, no complaints about the area. Exercise of situational awareness that would be recommended in most urban environments would be prudent. I would have sent my D there in a second if that's where she had wanted to go.</p>

7

<p>This seems to be a perennial topic. For background, I was at UofC for three years from 80-83, D just finished her third year, and wife and I lived there for one year last year.</p>

<p>Observations:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>up until around 2000, Hyde Park was an oasis surrounded by pretty tough neighborhoods. For example, north of 47th st, the boundary of the Hyde Park-Kenwood neighborhood, conditions were very rough. West of campus, beyond Washington Park, was similar. Now, the area north of campus is a rapidly gentrifying middle class community, with lots of construction of condos selling for up to $7-800,000. All of the projects that used to drag the area down are gone. I regularly rode my bike through the various neighborhoods to downtown two years ago and was amazed at how nice it was becoming. West of campus, across Washington Park, it is mosty vacant land soon to be developed. Again, all the projects lining the Dan Ryan are gone. SW of campus, the Edgewood neighborhood is still pretty tough, but the campus is buffered by busy streets and open space.</p></li>
<li><p>ejr's cop friends work downtown. Not surprised they don't know the 'hood arond hyde park.</p></li>
<li><p>many people associate neighborhoods of color with lack of safety. Sad but true. Hyde Park and surrounding neighborhoods are places of color. 'nuf said.</p></li>
<li><p>Crime does happen. Three blocks from our house when we lived there two years ago there were shootings several times. They were drug related, and were on the western fringe of Hyde Park. (around 51st and Drexel for you locals!). But these shootings were gang/drug related, so we civilians, as long as we avoid drug dealing or gangs, are not the target (and this is a complex topic in its own right: who is at risk from what violence occurs).</p></li>
<li><p>Property crime is big. My D has had several bicycle wheels stolen, for example. OTOH, bike wheel theft is so common all over the city that the shop we went to on the north side (in what is considered a good safe neighborhood) stocks wheels without quick releases just for the locals to avoid repeat theft. But look at most universities and you will find big time property crime.</p></li>
<li><p>Until recently, there was a long string of daylight robberies of people walking in Hyde Park. The perps were busted last year (students at the local HS, if I recall correctly) and the problem has ended.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>So, is it safe? NO GUARANTEES. But this is true at any college. I suspect it is safer than the Penns or Dukes of the world, maybe even the Harvards. It is probably not as safe as the Cornells or Dartmouths.</p>

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<p>ClassicRockerDad,
Thanks for starting this thread. I have a S about to start graduate school at UChicago in the fall and I was also concerned about this. I know that he is an "adult," but he is also small in stature and spent his undergrad years on a bucolic LAC campus. He will be living in grad student housing in Hyde Park and I feel better after reading the comments on this thread. I will pass on your collective words of wisdom about not straying too far in certain directions.</p>

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<p>Sorry, but my cop friend is family, (cousin, his wife, son, and nephew, all cops, who all work in different precincts-and they all agreed) who was worried about D, since she is his cousin, and even tho he works out of downtown, he is very high up and works with all the precincts. I also said that when the neighborhood was worse, nothing happened to my friend. That notwithstanding, the knife incident did happen while D was overnighting there. So they can't be too far off the mark. D who is going to Spain also purchased a shoulder bag that will cross her chest, so she can protect her purse, since college kids with their different looks are also targets overseas for pickpockets, as well (told to do so by others who had been there before her). Although I know this, I am sending her, anyway.</p>

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<p>It is interesting to compare crime stats at the dept. of ed. website: <a href="http://www.ope.ed.gov/security/search.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ope.ed.gov/security/search.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Frankly I'm a bit suspicious of Chicago's numbers. Just compare them to Penn or Harvard.</p>

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<p>I went to Columbia in the middle of the crack epidemic. Rather than buying a shoulder bag that crosses your chest, I suggest having a purse or bag or wallet that you give to muggers and keep your important credit and student id cards in a pocket completely separately. My experience with the Chicago police and firemen when I was there photographing fire stations on the South Side is that they are a bit paranoid.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the replys.</p>

<p>JHS: Since you're from Philly and have a child at Chicago, I appreciate your calibration. We spent years at Penn while my wife was a grad student in the early 90s, and that's the Philly we're comparing it to. The D in question was born during this time (2 for 1 plan :-) All kinds of bad stuff happened to students, break-ins, muggings, robberies. I remember at least one student was stabbed. Even those that lived across the river in Center City had safety issues and bars on windows. There was an apartment complex just north of the campus at 36th street with "24 hour security" that had razor wire around the complex that made it look like a prison. The area around 41st and Lancaster - 4 blocks from campus - looked like Beirut during its civil war. </p>

<p>Our impression of Hyde Park is that it is MUCH better than the West Philly we knew, much lower population density and much less hardcore urban. There were nice cars WITH hubcaps and far less through traffic. There seemed to be a wider variety in age - people walking dogs - swing sets in back yards - $1M+ homes. In the neighborhoods around Penn, it was mostly students - most faculty lived in Center City or the suburbs. </p>

<p>Overall, we were much more comfortable there than at UPenn. I'm trying to get an accurate picture. Thanks.</p>

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<p>I lived in West Philly for 12 years, and in Hyde Park for 3. Both were several decades ago. West Philly was much safer, though the closer one got to the U., the less safe it became. But I never saw the kind of property crime in West Philly that I saw fairly regularly in Hyde Park.</p>

<p>"Of course Hyde Park is "safe" for a teen."</p>

<p>The core curriculum will scar him for life. ;)</p>

<p>But, hey, I'm a New Yorker who grew up there in the 50s and 60s, at a time when it would have been much less safe than either.</p>

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<p>Just so that you have the calibration right, I lived in West Philly, too, from 1983 to 1993, at 42nd & Pine, 46th and Locust, and 47th and Springfield (right near where mini was), and I would not have described my feelings as being at all like yours, CRD. I enjoyed the neighborhood a lot, and was sorry to leave. It certainly wasn't crime-free, and at the height of the crack epidemic in the early 90s there were some very upsetting incidents, including a grad student killed in a mugging at the park where my kids played. But my kids, and lots of other kids, played there for years without being killed or mugged. I was back there one afternoon a couple of months ago and there was a massive nerf-sword free-for-all going on there among 10-25-year-old boys (and a few girls) -- it was completely charming and completely safe. (I happened to be there with a recently retired Philly cop, by the way, who had had no idea that neighborhood was as nice as it is. He kept saying "I thought this would be completely different.")</p>

<p>Mini's right, too, that the petty-crime rates were highest right on the Penn borders. Farther out, people knew each other, walked their dogs, etc., and no one could lurk around looking for victims without being challenged.</p>

<p>I don't know Hyde Park anywhere near as well as I knew West Philly. It seems more like Mt. Airy to me -- which means nice, but also not crime-free. Also, less street life than in West Philly, so you see fewer strangers, but you are much more alone if you're alone.</p>

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<p>My D is a 5' 2" junior at Penn. No problems. The neighborhood has gentrified to a great extent. Here is a recent article from the Inquirer:</p>

<p>The dozen-year-long revival of University City has broad momentum now, as a walk from Center City across the Schuylkill through the neighborhood reveals.</p>

<p>The collective effort by big institutions, small businesses and residents has addressed crime, filth and other problems that university leaders had said in 1995 threatened the prominence of their renowned institutions.</p>

<p>"There's a feeling of being safe here now. It is cleaner. It just feels better," said James R. Tucker, Drexel University's senior vice president for student life and administrative services.</p>

<p>But the new buildings, businesses and activities have not altered what makes a college area special.</p>

<p>"It is still a very open neighborhood. People feel comfortable here," said Deborah Sanford, who has owned and operated the House of Our Own Bookstore at 3920 Spruce St. since 1971, the year after she graduated from the University of Pennsylvania.</p>

<p>"University neighborhoods in general always have been places where ideas could take shape, a fertile ground for turning them into actuality," Sanford said. "That's still possible here, even though the neighborhood is much more highly developed than back in '70s."</p>

<p>The progress Sanford and Tucker describe is spelled out in detail in the 40-page annual "report card" on the neighborhood issued last week by the University City District, a service agency funded by donations.</p>

<p>The report touts job growth of 10 percent since 2004, to 63,878 at the end of 2006. The largest share of jobs, by far, are at the universities - which employ 33,951 - followed by health-care services, where 13,425 work.</p>

<p>Apartment rents and home prices also have climbed. Since 1997, for example, the average rent for a two-bedroom apartment has risen from $733 to $1,174. The median price for homes has risen from $71,700 in 1995 to $312,000 last year.</p>

<p>Including projects under construction, 1,466 residential units have been added to the area since 2000.</p>

<p>Retail continues to grow, with 18 new businesses established in the last year.</p>

<p>Aided by tax breaks from state job-creation programs, office buildings and space for start-up technology companies have been added, and more such facilities are planned. Most notable is Brandywine Realty Trust's Cira Centre, the 28-story glass office building next to Amtrak's 30th Street Station.</p>

<p>Brandywine's chief executive officer, Jerry Sweeney, has joined Drexel President Constantine Papadakis in leading the effort to transform the long-neglected area along the Schuylkill into a 1.2-mile-long park at the edge of University City.</p>

<p>"The area has established significant momentum that shows no signs of abating," said Lewis Wendell, executive director of the University City District.</p>

<p>Major institutions have played big roles in the changes since 1995.</p>

<p>The University of Pennsylvania, for example, has added buildings, fostered retail and cultural activities, and helped faculty and staff buy and fix up homes in the neighborhood.</p>

<p>It acquired an empty industrial building on Chestnut Street at 31st Street that developer Carl Dranoff converted into upscale apartments called the Left Bank.</p>

<p>It also acquired former industrial property from the U.S. Postal Service where it is planning developments that will create more pedestrian-friendly links to Center City.</p>

<p>A $2 billion expansion of Children's Hospital of Philadelphia is under way.</p>

<p>Drexel has constructed homes for its business and law schools and other academic and laboratory facilities. Once mostly a commuter school, Drexel will have dormitory space for 4,300 students and a 60,000-square-foot recreation and physical fitness center when buildings now under construction are finished.</p>

<p>University City attracts a wider variety of people, both as residents and visitors, than it once did, said Sanford, the bookstore owner who says her shop sells "the kind of books people should be reading" - philosophy, literature, history and other topics not found in more market-driven shops.</p>

<p>"There's a mix of ages and types of people, professional people and students. A lot of young people who are not students at Penn have been a real source of energy," Sanford said in an interview that was interrupted when rain clouds required her to retrieve books from the sidewalk out front.</p>

<p>This summer, she has noticed a change in the customers walking by and coming through the door. "It used to be very slow and empty in summer. But it is not at all that way now. This week we've had people from many schools - Swarthmore, Bryn Mawr, Haverford, Columbia, Drew, Scranton."</p>

<p>Interesting people, she said, are "still drawn by the conception of what a university area is and should be. These are the people who make it interesting. They are still coming, and they bring a good quality of energy and interest with them."</p>

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<p>Mini and JHS -- Ahhh...West Philly. DH was there for undergrad (79-83) and we lived on Farragut Terrace (between 46th and 47th, between Springfield and Chester) from 1985-1989. Used to go to Koch's all the time. We had a car break in, one foiled robbery, and one robbery on our front porch during that time. Grabbing cash and property for drug money seemed to be the motive for much of what we experienced.</p>

<p>All that said, I used to walk home from work (downtown) in the early evening and never felt threatened, and I would drive to rehearsals at night on campus and just paid attention. Some active street sense is one's best weapon.</p>

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<p>I like the advice earlier about keeping the credit cards, ID, etc, in a separate area-- this is what I do when I feel unsafe (which for a neurotic like me, is just about always). </p>

<p>I wouldn't be surprised if muggings were played down-- but honestly, muggings are muggings, they happen in any city, and usually they would rather have your money than anything else. So you lose some money, worst comes to worst.</p>

<p>I also don't understand why the police escort service and shuttles go underused. They are there to be used.</p>

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<p>Unalove, in my experience shuttles at UChicago are used all the time. Since dorms are spread out over a wide area, there are several shuttle services that run every 20 minutes until 2 AM on weekdays and 6 AM on weekends (free buses run similar routes during daytime hours). The late night shuttle service, otherwise known as the drunk van, runs all night every night and is also widely used. I was actually surprised that people are so willing to take the drunk van not just home from a party late at night but also home from a movie at a friend's apartment or from the library. The police escort service at Chicago is very rarely used, but the regular shuttles and the late night shuttle service are very popular. You obviously know all this since you're a student, Una, so that was for the sake of everybody else. :) But do you see shuttles as under-used? I'm wondering whether it's just my friends who take advantage of it.</p>

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<p>I guess it all depends. I'm in BJ, so I often find it easier to walk, and if I'm going to or coming back from a party or such, I'm often in a large group anyway (and sober).</p>

<p>There are a lot of kids hanging out and waiting for shuttles during the night, though, so I'm willing to say that your experiences are more typical than mine.</p>

20

<p>Getting back to my original question, and taking into account my new calibration - people here who lived near Penn at a time that I felt was too unsafe and they thought was safe enough - it seems to me that the conclusion to draw is that Hyde Park today is not as safe as West Philly was during the time my wife went to Penn in the early 90's. That means our initial impression of Hyde Park was perhaps far too rosy and that is unfortunate.</p>

<p>I'm not naive. I grew up in late 70's New York City. Crime was everywhere and a part of daily life and I was pretty streetwise. I lived in a pretty rough Dorchester section of Boston in the late 80's through graduate school before we moved to Philly. Despite all that, I was not prepared for West Philadelphia. We wouldn't have raised kids there or Dorchester. That's not a judgment on those that do, it was just not what we were comfortable doing - just because I grew up and was used to so much crime doesn't mean I would choose that environment if I didn't have to. </p>

<p>If D does want to do a summer program in UChicago, we will have to think hard about it. Thanks for all the feedback and please correct me if my conclusion is incorrect.</p>