Is undergrad school worth a 6 figure debt if I'm set on grad school?

Parents Forum
1

<p>Reposting this for a friend, burmell. Advice from parents with experience would be beyond helpful.</p>

<p>If anyone can relate to my situation, please, ADVICE NEEDED!!!</p>

<p>Ok, here?s my dilemma.</p>

<p>First, the good news.</p>

<p>I am well regarded as an overachiever with a strong work ethic and a passion to live life to the fullest. After four diligent years of study throughout high school and countless hours devoted to college applications, I have gained acceptance to UMASS Amherst Commonwealth College ($14,000 per year), UVM Honors College ($38,000 per year), Brandeis University ($35,000 per year), and Tufts University ($38,000 per year). I?m very thankful to have accomplished what I have thus far. I feel honored and I truly do believe that a college experience at any one of these schools will ultimately boil down to what I make of it.
Going into my undergraduate education, I really have not a clue what I kind of career I want to devote the majority of my life to. I do know that I have a true passion to explore the fields of Philosophy, Religion, Body/Mind?and a knack for Personal Finance (started and managed a large-scale neighborhood landscaping business for five years). Now, I do not know where these interests will lead me. These same interests led my dad to 8 years of study at college and provided him with an outstanding foundation to become a chiropractor. Chiropractic certainly interests me as a career, but I do not know if that is to be my fate. I am ever anxious to find out, to broaden my horizons, to stretch my mind in ways I never thought possible, to learn as much as I possibly can until I can pinpoint an area of study that clicks for me. If I end up delving into Philosophy for four years and deciding that I was meant to be a philosopher, that is perfectly fine by me. I would like to live a comfortable lifestyle, but I am not driven by wealth. In fact, at this stage of my life, I would decline a life of luxury, fame, and ease if it were offered to me.
If I could choose a college, I would be headed to Tufts for 4 years hands down. Every aspect of the school is an absolutely perfect match for me: location, size, atmosphere, academics, social life?
(I pretty much gained acceptance to Tufts by writing three philosophical essays, 1 of which detailed my passion to work alongside modern day renowned Philosopher Daniel Dennet, who is well known for collaborating with students and teaching classes for incoming freshmen.)
I yearn to go to Tufts. Every aspect is ideal, every aspect except for COST!!!</p>

<p>The bad news.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, I fall under that middle class category of families who earn too much to qualify for substantial financial aid and too little to actually contribute to their kid?s college education. Basically, about 80% of all college expenses are on me.</p>

<p>Realistically, 3 out of the 4 areas of study that I listed above do not lead anywhere near a profitable career; certainly a rich mind, but not a well-paying job. I also know that my studies will not end after undergraduate school. My goal is to find my one true passion, see where that leads in terms of a career, and then head off to graduate school. Nearly everyone who I encounter tells me that graduate school is the time to spend the big bucks, for it is graduate school that will prepare you for a life-long career. No one is a stronger proponent of this reasoning than my dad. He attended University of New York at Albany for 4 yrs, Harvard Divinity School for 2, and finally New York Chiropractic College for 2. When he stepped out of Harvard, debtors were immediately crawling down his back, writing threatening letters to pay up. It took him 15 years to pay off his loans (about $60,000 in the late 70s). Bottom line, he would like to send me to Tufts more than anything, but he knows that I?m just like him in terms of my study interests and doesn?t want me to have to experience the financial burden that he did. If I went to Tufts, I would be $150,000 deep before I even set foot on a graduate school campus. Graduate school would most likely tag on another $100,000-150,000. That?s a quarter of a million dollars deep before I even have a steady job.
On the other hand, I have spoken with numerous trusted family friends who attended the UMASS Amherst Honors College program, had a great experience, and had no problems gaining admission to the graduate school of their choice. UMASS would leave me $60,000 out.</p>

<p>IF YOU HAVE READ THIS FAR, PERHAPS YOU CAN OFFER ME ANY INSIGHT ON THIS FINAL QUESTION.</p>

<p>I know that my dad is looking out for my best interests, but I do not know if repaying college loans will be as burdensome for me as he makes it out to be. I hear stories in the news about students fresh out of college with incredibly high debt scrambling to find that high-paying job to get them out of it. I have also spoken with people who tell me not to fear being in debt until I?m 40. Stretching loan repayments over a long time frame will allow you to live comfortably as long as you can dish out that $200 some odd payment every month. I really do not know what the true scene is today for students who walk out of graduate school seemingly financially crippled.</p>

<p>PLEASE, HELP!!!</p>

2

<p>I do not know of any bank or lending instuition that would lend a college student that kind of money without a parental co-signer. If you were my child I would not want you to have that kind of debt hanging over you after graduation and I am not sure I would be willing to co-sign for it.</p>

<p>But you are not my child, I wish you well as you try to solve this problem.</p>

3

<p>From taxguy's thread on incurring substantial debt (which you should read): <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=326598%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=326598&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Your monthly payment for $150,000 in debt will be about $1433/month.</p>

<p>Let us suppose you earn $40,000/year as you begin your career. That is $3333/month. Let's say that is $2667 after tax take-home.</p>

<p>So, here's a scenario:</p>

<p>$ 2667 take home pay
(1433) student loan payment
( 800) monthly rent (hoping you live in a moderate cost area, or share)
( 150) monthly utilities ( " " " )
( 100) monthly health insurance (pretty optimistic, I think)</p>

<hr>

<p>$184 left for: food, transportation, clothes, entertainment, books, newspapers, magazines, music</p>

<p>How do you think that will work for you (or, can you adapt the numbers by earning more, paying less for rent, etc.) to make it work?</p>

4

<p>No
(ten char)</p>

5

<p>I was jusy going to say "no" but WashDad beat me to it. We like the same movies too!</p>

<p>Don't drown yourself in debt. I've gone to 5 colleges/Universities on the way to a PhD and managed to do it with very little debt. Had I acquired a bunch of debt, I probably could not have been a stay-at-home-mom. Your options will shrink in proportion to your debt load. A determined student can find academic challenge just about anywhere.</p>

6

<p>I, too, was just going to say "No." But took the long - very long - way around. Hoping that seeing some real #s of daily life might make things more clear.</p>

7

<p>It's a non-issue. No bank will lend you the dough. </p>

<p>Go forth without a second thought, and be happy! :)</p>

8

<p>No.
Listen to your father.</p>

9

<p>$100.000+ debt? No sweat. Go for it.</p>

10

<p>Chiming in; no!</p>

11

<p>Heck no, I would not borrow all that money for those private schools. I wouldn't do it even if I knew for sure that I would never want to go to grad school.</p>

12

<p>I had about 100,000 in debt after graduate school. At the time, it meant that in essence I was paying 2 mortgages per month. Although both H and myself were professionals and he had no debt from school, this was not inconsequential to us at all. It's too bad, since you are obviously a strong student, that you did not apply to more "Tufts- like" schools at which you would have earned merit money. </p>

<p>How much, if anything, are your parents actually contributing?</p>

13

<p>I am a parent that is much of a bloodless calculator. You've appear you could be happy at both; you're seeking advice- to put it my way- on which is the better investment. I say take the less expensive school, confident that it will prepare you well, graduate without debt, and YOUR PARENTS have $ leftover. They may wish to give you THE GIFT of all or part of this dough, but remember it is their money.
Most young adult(which I define as supporting himself-not by age) desires his own place, nicer car, proper clothes, and begins utility costs, etc. If a young adult has all his starting wages going to loans plus living necessities like I have mentioned, he soon finds little money leftover for discretionary spending on fun things. People in that position soon find themself feeling lke they are working for nothing.</p>

14

<p>Are you getting some financial aid from Tufts? Otherwise, you're underestimating the costs. From the Tufts website:</p>

<p>Costs</p>

<p>Estimated costs for the Fall 2007 semester are: Tuition $17,855, room charge $2610, board charge $2470 and fees $856 = $23,791.</p>

<p>So for the year it would be $47,582.</p>

15

<p>One possibility is go to UMASS Amherst Commonwealth College ($14,000 per year), and explore the opportunity of nearby campuses( attending seminar or sit in extra classes at Amherst, Hampshire, etc) or study aboard. Given your broad and unfocused interests, you need extra money to provide you with additional freedom/mobility to find your true passion.</p>

16

<p>descant, since you have a knack for personal finance you must know that no lending institution will loan a college student anything approaching $100,000. So, unless your family comes up with $70k in financing, Tuft's et al are off the table.</p>

17

<p>Look carefully at how many courses you could take, while enrolled at UMass, at the other 4 colleges in the 5-College Consortium.
In Amherst, Smith and Mount Holyoke, you already have 3 schools that are equal and better than Tufts. Hampshire is a unique place, but I think more often their students bus themselves onto the other 4 campuses rather than the other way around.
The free shuttle bus system connecting the 5 colleges is the largest free transit system outside of DisneyWorld in Orlando, runs frequently and has late night hours, too.
Look at the Events Calendar of the Five College Consortium.</p>

<p>If you limit yourself to UMass classes, I'd say the educational opportunity is less. If however, you are organized, ambitious, don't mind being the "only" one in a class from UMass (so less social bonding, to be realistic; and some are snobs but most aren't). You could map out quite a program for yourself.<br>
Make sure the rules let you enrol everywhere; try out a schedule of 4 or 5 courses (what better do you have to do tonight?), check it against bus schedules. Remember that Amherst and Hampshire are in the same town; Smith or MoHo are each a half hour ride away (including traffic), but a late night, return ride home when Route 9 isn't busy might be more like 15 minutes.
See if you can get away from the worst nonsense re: dorm housing at UMass. Is there a substance-free housing alternative? If so, I'd recommend it.
It can get noisy and drunken around UMass freshmen, and you sound better than that.
If any of your EC interests take you into the performing arts, I know that UMass students appeared in some of the student productions at Amherst College. They auditioned and if they were the most talented, they were the stars. I saw one young lady bring down the house singing in an Amherst College student-directed production.
Theater is the EC I know most about. A very accessible EC's is to work backstage in an Amherst College Theater or Dance student production; see their department page; great cast parties, too. AND UMass has a big theater offering, as well. You can be doing that as often as your schedule can take, if you like being part of a group theater production. For my non-athletes, it's the warp and woof of their lives.
In addition to all the EC's that UMass itself presents, of course.
I think being in the Honors division of UMass would connect you with the best students there and you could ignore what you don't like; then just seek out individual courses and EC's on ANY of the 5 campuses. Check the rules though, that the enrolment goes in all directions. I also understand it's open enrolment, so first come-first serve but no quotas re: other campuses in any direction.
But given the nubmers that UMass presents to this system, DO check that this Open policy also extends to UMass students wishing to come onto other small campuses. I wouldn't want to misrepresent anything; it does work in the other direction, surely. For example, any student who can't find the language they want on their small campus comes running over to UMass. Kids also come to Umass for a wider menu of religious services.</p>