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dude Texas in not ivy status. give it up ahaha
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<p>only if you can define what that really means and then say why UT falls short. If it’s based solely on selectivity, SAT scores, class size, and age, I concede and agree. If you mean in terms of institutional academic strength and resources, I would be interested to know how you still come to this conclusion.</p>
<p>Of course there are no public Ivies.
The University of Texas has very similar students to the University of Florida and has a very similar perception around the nation. Neither school will impress people very far from their borders. I say this as a Florida alum who has lived and worked in NY, Boston and Chicago.
In the general zeitgeist, Berkeley is regarded as a school for pot smoking hippies and Michigan as a football school down on its luck. UVA and W&M are off the radar. Except instate, of course.</p>
<p>^^^^I agree JWT86. Texas certainly deserves to be among the so called public ivies. A few public schools that are rated higher are given an unfair advantage because they are much smaller and more selective with their student bodies.</p>
<p>In the general zeitgeist, Berkeley is regarded as a school for pot smoking hippies and Michigan as a football school down on its luck. UVA and W&M are off the radar. Except instate, of course.</p>
<p>…and Duke is a basketball school, Notre Dame is a football school, and Brown is the guy who delivers boxes to my house…</p>
<p>LOL what can Brown do for you??</p>
<p>Notre Dame is NOT regarded as a football school. Not even a football school down on its luck, unfortunately.</p>
<p>You can say that other “public Ivies” have unfair advantage in selectivity due to size, but one can also say that UT has “unfair” advantage in research due to size.</p>
<p>“Notre Dame is NOT regarded as a football school. Not even a football school down on its luck, unfortunately.”</p>
<p>Don’t kid yourself danas. Football is what made Notre Dame famous. If it weren’t for football, ND would be no where near the ranking it is today.</p>
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<p>Ok, but even if we accept part of that, there are lots of large schools that aren’t strong research universities or don’t have the same academic breadth and depth. And what about the actual resources and course offerings available due to being a large research university? I think they should still count for something.</p>
<p>Notre Dame indeed has a fantastic football history. So does the University of Chicago, where I have studied on the graduate level, now live, and work.
Every day at the gym I see the first Heisman Trophy ever awarded.
I hope Notre Dame football doesn’t fall into a footnote in history like the U of C.
You can still be a fine academic institution nonetheless. Besides, ND isn’t a public, for this discussion.</p>
<p>Chicago dropped football. It started as a first class university right from it’s inception. Notre Dame wasn’t even on the map in terms of recognition in this country when Chicago was huge in football. Football did not make Chicago the top school it is.</p>
<p>I was talking about universities that are already somewhat comparable.</p>
<p>Chicago also has the honor of handing UT its worst football loss in history - a 68-0 crushing in 1904!</p>
<p>It is next to impossible to start as a first-class university from inception. I think football had a positive effect on raising the school’s profile with the public. Particularly situated in the Midwest.
The schools in the East had the history and the economic elite to fill their classes. Chicago and Notre Dame drew the smart, first generation college students who never heard of Brown or Dartmouth. Football played an important role for both.
There could be a book on the unsuspected similarities of Chicago and Notre Dame.</p>
<p>Chicago did. Had something to do with a guy name Rockefeller and a lot of money. Notre Dame was around way before Chicago, and did not become a well known quality institution until way after Chicago.</p>
<p>As a Midwesterner by adoption, the Rockefeller money wouldn’t have been enough in itself. Olin recently, in spite of its phenomenal kitty, has had to trim its sails in the downturn.
More importantly, if you come from Terre Haute or Dubuque or Appleton, what is going to get your attention?
Are you arguing that football is not important in raising universities profiles, particularly among first generation college students?</p>
<p>Not at all. What I am saying is that football made ND what it is way more that football made Chicago what it is. I agree wholeheartedly that football is important in raising a university’s profile when that university wasn’t all that great in the first place.</p>
<p>A question then is what is the effect of the half-life of a great football history on current day 17 year olds. At the University of Chicago, the football history is an ironic curiosity. Is there a point in time where it will become so for Notre Dame- unless there is a change in the football program? I think so.</p>
<p>Not as long as ND is on NBC every Saturday home game. Have a nice evening danas. Headed to bed. :-)</p>
<p>Sleep tight. Losing to Navy will not keep the flame alive. Or beating them, either.</p>