<p>I'm a rising third year at UVA and I feel like the financial aid at UVA is very unfair to middle class families.</p>
<p>I know UVA is hailed for being great with its financial aid but does anyone ever think why? I know for a fact that most of the people at UVA don't even qualify for aid as their parents make a lot. This could explain why UVA can give 100% need to the few people on grounds that need it. I read an article by a law professor here and he said that the average family income for students here is around ~200k, and although I wouldn't believe it at first, it seems to be true from my experiences here. I also remember reading some statistics of how the percentage of students who qualify for aid at UVA is significantly lower compared to other instate Virginia universities like ODU, NSU, VCU, VT, JMU, etc. </p>
<p>I've noticed that for most of my friends and I, we don't qualify for aid or we get mostly loans for our aid if we ever get it. I've noticed that many students whose families made between 70k-100k were given very bad financial aid awards, which are mostly loans, while students whose parents make <65k are given almost entirely grants/scholarships. And of course, people whose parents make much more don't need the aid.</p>
<p>I have a lot of friends that get mostly loans just because their parents make a bit too much for grants but not enough to comfortably pay the tuition prices. </p>
<p>I was wondering if anyone else had it this way. If you were in the middle class area and got poor financial aid.</p>
<p>I love UVA and all, but the financial aid for middle class families is pretty bad.</p>
<p>Sorry for any typos, I typed this on my phone.</p>
<p>Where did you see those statistics please? It’s certainly possible though as UVA has far more wealthy students than those other schools. The bare fact in itself does not speak ill of UVA or the other schools for that matter. It’s just different demographics.</p>
<p>^ You can look up some stats on collegeboard as it proves my statement but I don’t know how reliable they are. I will search for the links of where I read it. I know the UVA % met with aid was on the UVA website somewhere. Certainly not saying UVA is a bad place as some of my friends who are not middle class got the best FA package here. It’s just a hard place for middle class families to pay for.</p>
<p>According to the fact sheet here [University</a> of Virginia - Charlottesville, Virginia - Undergraduate Information](<a href=“http://www.collegeview.com/schools/university-of-virginia/]University”>http://www.collegeview.com/schools/university-of-virginia/), tuition and fees at the University of Virginia (instate) are $11,786 per year–and that’s the cost if you don’t get a *penny *in financial aid. That’s the deal of the century imho, is more than manageable by middle-class families, and certainly explains why middle-class students at UVA outnumber everyone else. </p>
<p>According to the College Board, meanwhile, the ***average ***financial aid package is $22,445 and 100% of financial need is met. This is a non-issue.</p>
<p>^ 12k for tuition for a year + room/board/expenses/books/travel = ~25k/year and double for OOS.</p>
<p>There is no way middle class students outnumber everyone else at UVA, there’s just no way. Average financial package is 22.4k, but that also counts for the huge OOS pricetag which largely inflates the average.</p>
<p>There are stats available on the web that show that UVa has a lower percentage of pell grant recepients than most public flagship universities. </p>
<p>Part of that is the selectivity. Whether you like it or not, standardized test scores do usually correlate with family income. I’m not saying that there aren’t plenty of really smart lower income people, but on the average, that is what the data shows.</p>
<p>Also, higher income people can afford more test prep, college counselors, private schools, summer academic camps, etc.</p>
<p>When we look at total college costs, we also have to remember that it would cost a student money to live even if they were not in college. Therefore, a portion of food, housing and utility costs need to be separated from “the cost of college.”</p>
<p>I agree that full pay in-state tuition is a great financial deal for students and families.</p>
<p>We also need to keep in mind that financial aid typically assumes that a family has saved money before a child starts college. All college expenses are not supposed to be paid from current income. While I realize there are plenty of legitimate economic troubles out there, there also are some families that should have bought less expensive houses, cars and vacations and stayed away from expensive restaurants, and instead saved more of their income while their kids were younger.</p>
<p>Based on some data Charlie posted, here’s what UVA’s enrollment looks like in terms of who gets aid and how much people pay. As you can see, the largest demographic are in-state students who don’t get aid. The cost for that group is not cheap, but it is an outstanding value. Two thirds of the students do not get any aid. The costs below are all in – tuition, room, board, books, travel, etc. </p>
<p>A. 23% of students are IS with aid and pay an average of $13,221 ($21,821 revenue to UVA after adding 8,600 of state support). 14.5% of revenue.
B. 44% of students are IS without aid and pay an average of $25,400 ($34,000 to UVA with state support). 43% of revenue.
C. 10% of the students are OOS with aid and pay an average of $27,817. 8% of revenue.
D. 23% of the students are OOS without aid and pay an average of $51,600. 34% of revenue.</p>
<h2>Northwesty - you could separate that data even further by showing that all international students do not receive aid from UVa, and then show the percent of OOS US students who don’t get aid. Incoming first year international students make up about 5% of enrollment.</h2>
<p>Link has data on international students. 9% of undergrads are non-US citizens, including
22% for the Comm School. That helps to explain why the U. has been increasing Comm School tuition above other schools. The non-US citizens number includes students who are longer-term residents of the US who have not yet become citizens, etc.</p>
<h2>17% of grad students are non-US citizens, including 42% for engineering (which is common throughout the US).</h2>
<p>97% of first year students return for their second year. That is an incredibly high percentage compared to other colleges.</p>
<p>UVa has a 84.9 percent graduation rate among African American students, which the report says is one of the highest rates among public colleges in the US. That is unlabeled, but appears to be a 6 year graduation rate.</p>
<p>More data, including for calendar year 2011. The annual state appropriation for UVa’s academic side is equal to 43% of all of the money paid in tuition and academic fees (not including Pells, etc.).</p>
<p>The reason students with lower family incomes get mostly grants/work study is because they have already maxed out their loans. Don’t be naive. My roommate of 3 years finally maxed out her loans her 4th year and then was put on work study. I know an OOS student who was on work study since year 1. The aid is fair in the big picture. One of the teachers at my school is about to turn 40 and is so excited that her student loans will be paid off before her birthday. This is not new stuff… You are just beginning to realize the financial ramifications of it.</p>
<p>^ Hazel, I don’t know what allowed you to assume that they got grants only after they maxed out their loans. I know a lot of my friends start off every year with ~20k in aid, half in loans and half in grants, then they suddenly get a grant boost or scholarship they didn’t apply for which takes away from the loans.</p>
<p>Aid may be fair to lower class families, but certainly not middle class families, especially from the rest of VA that isn’t associated with Nova.</p>
<p>On a side note, I know of very few middle class students that are OOS. You either can pay for all of it being upper class or Access pays for all of it being lower class. Hell, my first year, I had lots of OOS students in my hall and most of them didn’t even apply for aid.</p>
<p>I believe only the lowest income students don’t have to take out loans. (I personally believe everyone should before they get cash aid from the U.)</p>
<p>Most students who get U. aid are offered the maximum subsidized federal loans and work study each year, and then grants make up the difference. Some students turn down work study if they can find the money elsewhere. After a student takes out about $25K of federal loans, then the U. says that they will try to increase your aid (which I’ve read is most common towards the end of 4th year).</p>
<p>At 48K a year for out of state tuition, room and board ($52K for comm school), I imagine there are many upper middle income students who are eligible for some aid from UVa. Considering that UVa makes a profit off of full pay students, if an OOS gets a modest amount of aid, the U. is probably breaking even.</p>
<p>I think you will find that many selective universities that do not meet 100% of need overall still meet 100% of need for highly qualified African-American students. Otherwise, they would have a ridiculously low % of African-American students.</p>
<p>I mean, you can complain all you want, but would you trade your middle class childhood for poverty to qualify for college aid? Perspective here. No one is entitled to any free money. Politics dictate admissions statistics especially outside of Nova, and aid. It is a choice to go to UVA, and for some with the aid offered it is a poor choice. But that means their family growing up probably had a decent go at things, which is worth more than some financial aid for 4 years at just one school of many throughout the state and country.</p>
<p>I didn’t mean to imply grants came only after loans were maxed out, it is just that after loans are maxed out you have to get work study and grants so that is why people seemingly getting a whole bunch of grants got there. Either they just maxed out, or they are not a 4th year and financial aid knows they are going to max out and is just mathematically disguising that they are going to max out their loans. There is a lot of math beyond what appear to be the basic numbers, so without the whole picture it is hard to make assumptions about what is fair for you vs your friends. However someone is paid to make sure the numbers work out for every student in a positive way for the university. Anyways just my 2cents</p>
<p>Aid still is not ideal for lower class families (it’s generous, but it’s not perfect). My family makes <60k annually, and though I’m receiving a lot in grants/scholarships, I still have to take out the maximum amount in loans and work study each year (until my fourth year, when I meet the loan cap). It’s not perfect for anyone.</p>
<p>UVA3rd – college is expensive and hard to pay for for everyone. Looks to me, though, like UVA is doing a pretty good job with making attendance affordable on a relative basis.</p>
<p>Only a third of UVA students get financial aid, which seems low. But since 2/3rds are in-state, those students effectively get an $8600 scholarship (state support from Richmond) plus a $26k scholarship (in the form of lower IS tuition). That math would compare favorably to any private college outside of HYP’s aid programs.</p>
<p>Average debt coming out of UVA is $19k. $16k at Berkeley and UNC; $17k at UCLA; $23k at VaTech and Wisc and MD; $25k at Texas; $28k at Mich; 31k at Penn State.</p>
<p>Clearly most of the OOS students are above middle class, since they mostly full pay at a $50k price point. But UVA’s budget is very dependent on that tuition revenue.</p>
<p>I agree Northwesty. I’d also note that U. California tuition and fees were unusually low and now have up to the national average. Therefore, that average debt for the U. Cals. will increase - it was artificially low in previous years because the state of California kept taking out bonds to pay off their operating expenses. Also, I believe California has offered better state grants directly to lower income students than most other states.</p>
<p>Exactly this, as has been explained elsewhere on this forum. In addition, FinAid is also based on the ability of the family to get/find $$$ (ie; loans based on equity of the house for example).</p>
<p>In the college’s financial office’s view, the “ability to pay” is not based on taking $25,000 or more out of the family’s normal yearly expenses. I think we are in agreement that that would be a severe hit to a middle-income or even upper middle-income family. The assumption is, the money has been saved and is already there.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, some of us have been better at saving than others. :o</p>
<p>To bring up a point someone made earlier in that most top colleges have a small percentage of people getting aid is very misleading.</p>
<p>I’m taking an education class here and the professor told us that out of the top 200 schools in the US, UVA is ranked 199/200 in the percentage of students receiving pell grants. The only school beating us is University of Delaware. He said our numbers were around 7-8% in the previous years and said similar schools like us, like UCLA, have over 40% of students getting Pell Grants, and a lot more getting a form of financial aid.</p>
<p>So I guess the OP is right in that UVA isn’t really a place for middle class/lower class families to fit in.</p>
<p>The vast majority of federal Pell Grants are given to individuals who have families that make under thirty thousand dollars per year. So basically families that are on food stamps. </p>
<p>I hope that we’re not so badly off in this country today that food stamps + Pell grants = middle class.</p>