I am in-state for Indiana and interested in business. I know Kelley School of Business is a good school…but, I am wondering if I should apply to UW bc of the better overall academics?
It really depends on family finances. NO school is worth going into great debt. If you are lucky enough to be able to afford OOS costs your options are greater. Many students of high caliber go to their flagship U’s because of costs- one reason Honors programs/colleges exist.
Discuss family finances regarding colleges with your parents. Find out how much they feel they can contribute. Figure out the cost differences and see if they fit a realistic budget. Parents should NEVER use their retirement funds- they can’t be replaced later. I can’t tell you how much is too much in loans- others may have good advice. You want to major in business- this is a good exercise in business making decisions for you. Cost/benefit ratios…
Kelley is actually ranked higher than UW-Madison’s undergrad. business program per US News (at least the past two years). Also, Kelley has a direct-admit option for those with the stats. No such guarantee at Wisconsin School of Business.
The OP was talking about the overall university, not just the business schools.
Agree @wis75 - that’s what OP asked about. However, the trade-off can be broken down a bit more precisely in order to help OP figure this out. It’s not about “overall” as much as it’s about what’s it like inside vs. outside the major of study. The academics at Kelley are as good as they are at WSB and there are attributes of the program that surpass Wisconsin (not the least of which is job placement!). OP should apply to any school that he/she has a reasonable expectation of attending and a cost/benefit analysis will be very helpful, of course, in figuring that out. It’s just super important to get the benefits defined and quantified correctly 
I disagree with the above. A college education/experience is about so much more than just the major and courses within it. It includes the people one will be surrounded by- living with and taking classes with. It includes many classes taken outside the business school- the professors and how topics are handled. A business school education is so much more than what is taught in the business classes. It is the entire enrichment of going to college.
The OP is thinking beyond just the major. Kudos. Masters and doctoral programs are the time to ignore the rest of the university. Undergrad is not.
No one is ignoring the rest of the university! The issue is properly thought of as trading off a better out-of-major experience for a better in-major experience, w/o holding constant the tuition dollars (since those are significantly greater for one of those scenarios). Yes, there are non-pecuniary considerations and those are important; however, most applicants to undergraduate business programs look very carefully at things like placement and program. It’s a professional degree, after all! Those who eventually head to grad school (not at all clear in this case as OP hasn’t mentioned it) tend to do so only after a few-to-several years of work experience.
I’d agree with you completely if OP were interested in applying to the College of Arts and Sciences.
@sel7sel Have you asked your parents how much they are willing to pay each year for 4 years?
People are so much more than their major. A business major deserves the same quality of overall education as anyone in any other field. The undergrad time period is their chance to get a good, well rounded education. Students at UW get admitted to the university as a whole, btw. One does not go to college merely to learn a trade/job skills.
OP, if you prefer UW based on fit variables (the main being academics, environment, and social vibe), and if your family can swing it without going into debt, then go ahead.
Keep in mind that a cost differential of ~$20k per year will come out to $80k total if you graduate on time. If you plan on grad school soon after undergrad, that $80k, assuming your folks would help you with it, would come in handy.
But, again, if the cost differential is not going to bring much hardship, and if you prefer UW, then by all means, apply. It’s a great school: outstanding academics, great sports and social scene, and it’s in one of the best cities in the country. Just make sure you bring warm clothes. hehe
“Students at UW get admitted to the university as a whole, btw. One does not go to college merely to learn a trade/job skills.”
Actually they do admit a small number directly; however, these kids should be taking the same pre-reqs as someone planning to apply to WSB from freshman “pre-major” status.
Sure one should have an opportunity to take a variety of courses at the undergraduate level (most colleges require this, btw). But direct-admit seems to be increasingly popular where two things are happening: 1) the major itself is become so technical as to require a 4-year focus; and 2) the major is so popular that entry is limited. Small comfort to the poor freshman who really had his/her heart set on studying business at Wisconsin only to find that Plan B will have to suffice! When you look at the numbers, majors in professional schools such as engineering, nursing, business, and so forth remain very popular (especially at the state uni’s) and these admissions are typically more selective than the general College of Letters and Sciences. True that one does not go to college merely to learn a trade/job skills; however, families do seem to be a little bit concerned that it’s possible to go through four years of study and not learn much of anything at all. Perhaps that concern explains some of these trends away from a more traditional liberal arts experience.
Whoa- any student admitted directly to any UW program still needs to be admitted to the university as a whole. This allows flexibility for students to change majors/schools/colleges. The direct admits are a subset of the admitted students.
I stand by the ideals of a college education. There is a reason for all of those breadth requirements.
Actually, this “university as a whole” wording isn’t quite correct - everyone is admitted to the college of Letters and Sciences initially, aren’t they? And if, after prepping for a year as a “pre-major”, if they aren’t accepted to the Business school or the college of engineering, don’t they have to stay in Letters and Sciences and find a major there? Not sure that is perceived by everyone as “flexible”. If there truly was fluidity among the different schools and colleges then I’d see your point.
Direct admits are ALWAYS subsets of admitted students, regardless of which university they happen to be attending. And breadth requirements exist regardless of major or whether one is a direct admit. In these things UW-Madison is not really different from other universities.
Direct admit - just to be clear - is a response to the technical demands of the major and market demand. That’s all. It’s a way to secure your area of study up front so that you can prepare with the confidence that those pre-reqs you signed up for will culminate in a degree in your field of interest 4 years later. It excuses no one from breath requirements nor does it focus solely on vocational training at the expense of a liberal arts experience at the baccalaureate level.
Be careful not to confuse an opportunity to choose your major or college up-front with lack of exposure to other fields at the university. The number of credits outside the business major at UW-Madison is the same as for UMN -Carlson, which is exclusively direct admit. I haven’t checked IU-Kelley but guessing that’s not much different either. At the baccalaureate level, most universities are going to be consistent in how they divide up the credits (within vs. outside of the major).
Nope, not everyone is admitted to College of Letters & Science initially, even ignoring direct admits.
JBS… you need to learn more about UW before posting- read the UW website! The university is composed of many colleges/schools. Most undergrads will start in L&S but some will choose others based on their major. L&S has the majority of students and does become the default college for most who are undecided, plus most students will take L&S courses, especially as freshmen. Ag and Life Sciences is the more appropriate college for some majors as an example.
But- all students, in all colleges/schools, will have been admitted to the whole university. This means students are competing with all applicants regardless of intended major. No getting in based on one’s intended major.
Some students choose U Minnesota for business because they know they will get in when they start. However, the two schools have different characters (ask Wisconsin and Minnesota residents who choose one over the other!) that becomes one reason to choose.
The OP is looking at the total experience. IF finances make either school affordable then those factors outside the major may trump it. btw- Different schools may be stronger/weaker in different majors. Also one needs to consider what happens if one changes majors.
The UW might be worth OOS tuition. If you are planning on spending $$$ to attend a private school anyway, then the UW might cost just as much or even a bit less.
If your alternative is to attend a state flagship, there are other ones that would give you more merit or financial aid. Is the UW worth more than $20K a year compared to tOSU, Iowa, or MN? Not sure.
@CheddarcheeseMN the op is comparing in-state tuition at IU and attending Kelly vs. OOS at UW and attending WSB. The In-state scenario a better major, the out-of state has better non-major academics.
Look, no one is arguing that UW doesn’t have a minimum standard of admission that applies to all its freshmen. I am sure that even direct admits - for instance the BFA programs – must meet that standard before being considered further based on portfolio review, etc. If that’s what is meant by “admission to the university as a whole” then fine. But by no means is that even close to meaning the same thing for everyone admitted. Some are admitted directly to the program of interest – such as art or performance majors – while others have to apply for further admission and face daunting odds that they will ever leave their default college of assignment. If University of Wisconsin asks you to specify a major and starts you on a premajor track, then rejects you for that major - as over 50% of business hopefuls will discover- well, that’s not exactly a benefit of attending UW.
If UW were an elite private institution that attracted applicants primarily on its university-wide reputation, and offered a cohesive plan of undergraduate education that included a common residential college, internship and career placement services, alumni connections, etc. then different story because being admitted to the university as a whole means the same thing for all admitted students. By virtue of admission, everyone would be free to make use of all resources available to all undergrads. But it isn’t and it doesn’t. It is a state university - a very good one- offering majors of widely varying popularity among many colleges, some which have have significant barriers to entry that you may well discover only after you enroll. And each of these has its own research opportunities, internship opportunities, and career placement. Even if there exists some university-wide undergrad career placement service, you know that some colleges are going to handle this function on their own because the outcomes are better for a variety of reasons. Given that level of variability among the undergraduate experience, I’m not sure what value is added by “being admitted to the university as a whole”.
Having said all that, the decision to trade off better academics outside your specific major is going to be an individual one. There is no right answer. As I mentioned a few posts ago, the issue is about understanding the benefits and the costs.I was very interested to learn recently that University of Michigan has opted to go 100% direct admit for its business school. This was a university with an admissions policy very much like university of Wisconsins and which heavily markets it’s liberal arts exposure for students of business. Wouldn’t be surprised in the least if UW follows the same path at some point.
And @wis75 and @Madison85 I apologize for using the term “everyone” earlier. When you read the post it’s clear I’m referring to everyone interested in business; however I didn’t make that clear. so sorry for confusing that issue.
I responded to this OP’s general post in College Selection – as an Indiana in-state family with a kid paying OOS at UW, we have some perspective on this decision. For us, we could afford the difference between in-state at IU and out of state at UW, and didn’t look back. Among the reasons my kid preferred UW – overall stronger national reputation, especially in arts and letters departments, including top 15 rankings in Poli Sci and other departments of interest. Being admitted to Honors at UW, based on holistic assessment, including essays vs. not qualifying for Honors at IU which is based solely on gpa and stats (high school only used unweighted gpa, though if there had been a weighted gpa, he would have qualified for IU Honors). Not going to school with 30-50 high school classmates. Not being in Bloomington which struck his as small and confining. Going to school on a lake, in a vibrant small city which also happened to be the state capitol, when he was interested in government internships. A school with a smaller percentage of greek life participation (around or under 10%). Getting out of Indiana. A better run organization – we had so many dead ends and missteps with IU, from lost files etc.
If he knew he wanted business and had been a direct admit to Kelley, we would have had a hard time accepting OOS tuition. Or if he knew he wanted pre-med, so saving all available resources for med school was a priority, we would have had a hard time accepting UW. But for his interests and goals, and given we could afford the OOS tuition, it was an easy decision.
JBS- you have long posts but they do not indicate any insider knowledge of UW, or understanding of how things work. Please do not attempt to say so much without first researching the school. There are many, many UW alumni all over the country for networking purposes, btw.
Midwestern…- I would classify Madison as a medium sized city- there are so many small cities with less than half of Madison’s metro area! Excellent post about reasons to choose a school- if finances allow. That is always the determiner of worth- for any school, top tier or otherwise.