<p>This a long thread so forgive me if I am repeating what has already been covered.</p>
<p>Personally, I would encourage the daughter to go to the most reasonably priced school where she thinks she can be happy and if she has even an inkling that she may want to teach, save going into debt for grad school. Among the dozen or so teachers in my world I don’t know anyone currently teaching at a local public school without an advanced degree. </p>
<p>I live in the Western Philadelphia suburbs and the baristas at my local coffee bar (including Villanova students) are incredibly bright, talented people. Almost all of them are graduates of the local colleges and were liberal arts majors who at present are figuring out what to do with their lives. Some are attempting to become professional writers, designers or musicians and don’t yet make a livable wage in their chosen field. A couple are applying to or thinking about applying to grad school. A number of them have worked in the shop for a couple of years. Getting started with a liberal arts degree is harder than it has ever been.</p>
<p>I would not want my kid to be dealing with loan repayment on a “waiting for my career to kick in” or “figuring out what my next move is” wage - which is how many liberal arts grads end up for a period of time post-graduation. </p>
<p>"To make the statement that kids coming out of school do not make $100K in STEM is not accurate, depending on the school.</p>
<p>Here is Carnegie Mellon’s figures for Computer Science majors - a median salary of $100K (with 94% of the graduating class responding to the survey):"</p>
<p>And the minimum is $40k and the max is $175k. Those earning in the $40k - 80k range can’t pay back big loans. </p>
<p>Don’t put words in my mouth. I was responding to the claim that a STEM major from MIT shouldn’t fear $100k in debt because they can make $100k from the start and double that within a few years.</p>
<p>No one is saying that it’s impossible. No one is saying that there aren’t some examples. </p>
<p>STEM majors include Bio, math, chem, biochem, physics, engineering/CS, etc. The idea that an incoming frosh who is going to be a “MIT STEM major” should have no fear about such large debt because he/she will be earning $100k upon graduation is crazy. No incoming frosh should depend on such a result. There are a whole bunch of STEM jobs that don’t pay nearly that much, no matter where you went to college. </p>
<p>"I know lots of people who didn’t manage to sock away the dough to cover full freight college, but somehow think that once the kid is away at college and thriving, the fridge will stop breaking and the muffler won’t fall off and the roof won’t leak and even though the current mortgage payments are do-able, by pulling out 100K from the Heloc they’ll mysteriously be able to cover the much higher payments with no sweat. The first year works great- everyone’s online with the new thrift. After that, not so much "</p>
<p>So true. That’s why it’s so scary when parents agree to pay an amount that is BEYOND what’s reasonable and comfortable. What family can go 4 years without several unexpected major expenses? Most families will have 3-4+ per YEAR…a major car repair, major dental work, major home repair, major appliance replacement, unexpected/emergency pricey air travel, vet bill, etc. </p>
<p>Today my son had an emergency dental issue, and I put $500 in his account to cover the parts not covered by insurance. That wasn’t expected. If we were living on a tight budget where would that come from? A credit card? My puppy was “fixed” yesterday, and my other dog has recently been Dx’d with diabetes and arthritis. Each week he’s had to go back for “all day” blood work to “fine tune” his insulin dosage. He’s also now on 4 Rx’s. lol The puppy getting “fixed” was expected, the diabetes, the weekly “all day tests,” insulin and other Rx’s for my doxie weren’t. But…that’s life. Expected the unexpected.</p>
<p>I know somebody who went to Villanova and is now teaching high school English. She was full pay with no financial concerns, and she also went to grad school. She had known she wanted to be a teacher during undergrad, but felt the grad school degree was a necessary addition She found a teaching job about six months after she graduated from grad school. She lived at home for about the first year of teaching to save money, and she graduated with no debt. If she was going to have debt, I don’t think she would have made those decisions.</p>
<p>I started work at non-profits, and my first position paid very low, but in the range of some entry level teaching positions. My student loans are basic Stafford - under $20,000 total - and I was struggling to be able to pay them and have enough to live on in my city. I can’t imagine graduating with over $100,000 in debt. I don’t think I would have really known what that meant as a high school senior, but I think the parents here have some responsibility to not let her do it. She won’t be able to live on her own at all with those payments, and she won’t have extra money for a vacation or a nice dinner out or anything like that. And needing to live with her parents could limit her chance to actually find a job, depending on where they live.</p>
<p>Okay, I didn’t know the specifics of why she did grad school, so I didn’t want to say you couldn’t teach with a Villanova degree without it (because I don’t know whether or not that’s true) but I do know that it was something she felt she needed. Additional costs.</p>
<p>Just caught up reading the post from yesterday. The feedback is priceless I really mean that. I read a few post to my D last night, she likes mooops the best… D has been really thinking about this whole debt issue, but please note… She is not 100% on the teaching path, that keeps coming up in many posts, English major “Yes” teaching maybe, she is just not sure. As to the money, I do have another kid in college and tuition is due there too (Drexel) What we do for one we will do for the other. I myself, think investing 240k on a BS is a tough putt, but sometime we do crazy things for our kids (tell me you never have). It’s out of my hands, I told her I would sign the papers if she choses VU, its her call. She is smart, caring, objective, will look to the future and make her decision. D has always made the best of every situation, good and bad. Will we help with payments, sure,…This was never intended to be about if we could afford VU, it was intended to ask the group "If VU is worth the difference between her #2… approximately 100k the difference between getting a scholarship or not. I have learned that my perception of VU is different then the groups, I had not expected that and “Yes.”… that does have my attention…Truth be told, I never looked at the price of the schools my kid picked, I always figured the ones in our area except UPenn were all about the same, and they are somewhat, … what I did not figure was that VU really does not give $$$ like the others do. My son got a lot of money when he applied and Drexel is not cheap, look it up, and my D stats were slightly higher then his, so I never really was worried, I figured she would get what he got, or close…and she did, just not at VU…Life in my home has been tense these past days, my D is upset and is trying not to be, seems every conversation ends with something about VU and that brings all the emotions back, my wife looks sad all the time, I feel like the bad guy even though I know someday someone might thank me for keeping it real. Fun times I tell you…</p>
<p>About 100 pages back, people were encouraging you NOT to send her to the accepted student days. I think she should go. If she’s making a $100 grand decision, she should know what she’s buying. Encourage her to go to VU and one or two of the other ones. She may find that all the schools are the same or that VU still is the standout. But at least she’ll know what she’s paying for.</p>
<p>Yes, we are planning to attend accepted students day at VU, St. Joe’s, and LaSalle. D will now look at these schools with different eyes, its been a roller coaster week…VU accepted students day was postponed because of the snow…blessing in disguise.</p>
<p>I actually think she should attend Villanova. I doubt she will wind up being a teacher. Villanova will probably serve her well. Most students change their majors anyway. My English major kid (Penn) is a corporate robber baron in Center City Philadelphia. If he had loans, he could pay them- well, if it wasn’t for the triathlon bikes…</p>
<p>This was our situation when D1 was going through the college process. D1 received full ride to a very good small LAC, and to 2 top 20 schools as full pay. Even though we always prepared to be full pay, it was hard for us to think about giving up that much money. I came on to CC to ask about what to do. A lot of people said to go to the LAC. We asked D1 what she wanted. She said she was prepared to contribute 10K a year for her education if we would allow her to go her top choice. We never made finance as a criteria when D1 was selecting her schools, so we didn’t think it would be fair to change the rule just because she unexpectedly got merit scholarship from a school, so we let her go to her school of choice, but we took her up on her offer. Every summer she gave us some of her summer earnings, which was not close to 10K. She graduated with high GPA and her dream job. We “forgave” her loans from us when she graduated.</p>
<p>We did the Oldfort plan with our daughter. Her final two college choices were an OOS public where she had received a HUGE scholarship (would have cost us less than $10,000 a year to send her for each of ALL four years). Other choice was a smaller expensive private university where she got very minimal money…cost for us was $50,000 a year. </p>
<p>We too expected to be full pay. We did not put financial restrictions when applications were sent. So the choice was DD’s.</p>
<p>She chose,the expensive private school, and really, it was an excellent choice for her.</p>
<p>My heart says she belongs at VU, every ounce in my body say its a perfect fit. I myself go back and forth as to what is the best thing to do. Financially, going with #2 is surely the best bet, but best for who? As for fit, and flourishing everyday… Its VU. She will visit them again, but I know she will pick VU, if she picks another, it will be because she does not want her parents to have additional expense and or high student loans. If D attends another school she will always wonder “what if”, but deep down inside where it counts, she wants to be a wildcat. </p>
<p>@Yensidtlaw please keep us posted when your D goes to all of the acceptance days. It will be so exciting to see if the other schools sway her or if she becomes a wildcat!</p>
<p>Yendistlaw, it’s your money and your choice. Everyone here has given their opinions and some have provided hard facts to back them up.</p>
<p>I do think it’s interesting how much you, the parent, have romanticized VU. the notion of the "Perfect Fit with every ounce in your body, etc. We usually see these kinds of posts from the kids but anyone who has spent any significant time on these forums has seen many posts from kids who are absolutely miserable at their “dream” schools and are scared to tell their parents (who are spending a fortune to keep them there) that the dream of 6-8 months ago is now a nightmare. It happens more often than you would think.</p>
<p>It’s important to remember that in many ways, college is a business and choosing which one to attend is a business decision. Four years goes by in a flash and the emotional high school senior is replaced by a much more sophisticated, less starry-eyed young adult; at least you hope that happens. We all want to see our smart, hard-working kids happy and some parents are willing to buy the BMW just to see the ecstatic smiles and hugs, even though the Toyota will get them where they need to go just as well. It’s fun to be the hero parent. They may not see the value of the practical choice right away, but the smart ones appreciate it later. It’s a real teaching moment, so be sure you know that you are teaching her what she needs to learn and not just what makes everyone feel good in the short term.</p>
<p>Yes, I will. It’s been a long week, I will be sure to keep everyone posted. I am curious myself. VU is mid March, one of her favorite teachers attended St.Joes, she has offered to show her around. TBC</p>
<p>Of course she would like Mooops the best, because Mooops is trying to be creative for her to attend VU.
I think that OP’s daughter will end up at VU. I hope her parents can pay simply by tightening the belt, without taking money out of the 401k or parent plus loans, and without loans further than the federal loans (those, however, are okay, if the daughter wants to attend the expensive school, she should shoulder some of the responsibility.$5,500 freshman is reasonable, $15,000 in loans freshman year is undoable).
The daughter may be mature but she can’t possibly comprehend what that level of debt means and if the “daughter takes on huge loan” path is taken, she could very well say “why did you let me to this to myself?”</p>
VU is mid March, one of her favorite teachers attended St.Joes, she has offered to show her around. TBC</p>