<p>The only time I ragged my son about dressing appropriately (not in rags) for a college visit, the tour guide showed up all sweaty in his running clothes. He did change before the interview. He was a senior, headed to Harvard for a graduate degree. Too bad he didn’t know how to dress. He was a really nice guy.</p>
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<p>The same glee satirists get from hoisting pompous presumptuous politicians/socio-economic elite on their own petards.</p>
<p>So either way, for you it’s always about scanning the horizons for other people’s opinions and using those to make a determination about how you feel about something. </p>
<p>I come at things differently. I care about the things I do for me, and if people care / don’t care about those things, that’s their problem, not mine. I don’t have to twist myself in knots to “impress” and I don’t have to twist myself in knots to try to “gleefully irk” or tick off people. You might do well to think about why other people’s opinions have so much prominence in your life. It’s a very reactive posture.</p>
<p>I like to look nice (which is not equal to “dress up” for those who can’t envision any halfway meeting point between sweats and a business suit) for my own self-respect. Not caring would be a signal of depression, and the times in my life when I’ve been depressed indeed have been associated with that dreary “oh why bother, just put on sweatpants that cover me and don’t make any effort.” Haven’t we all known little old ladies who still take the time to put on lipstick or do something else to fix themselves up, and when they stop doing so that’s the sign that they’ve lost the will to live?</p>
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<p>And I think a tour guide - that’s a work-study job, right? - should pull it together more than “sweaty running clothes.” Which again doesn’t mean he needs khakis and a tie, but good lord, for a male college student, nice jeans, a white t-shirt with a polo over it covers a LOT of ground from hanging out with the guys to a casual date with a girl to going to see a professor.</p>
<p>Two last comments and then I’ll go back to enjoy just reading the thread.</p>
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Is it really that hard to understand? Isn’t that what a substantial proportion of the last 1000 generations of teenagers have done … purposely tweaked adults with their choices in clothes, music, and hair styles. More seriously, social conventions over time have changed thanks to those who are willing to tweak the current “rules”. Any women who now wears slacks, jeans, or sweats should thanks those who came before them who didn’t seem to understand that appropriate dress for a women was to always wear a skirt or dress.</p>
<p>A few years ago I went to a funeral for one of my aunts. At the church among the attendees I heard a few comments about the 50 year old attendee who was wearing slacks and a dress shirt but no suit or tie and who looked a bit dishevelled. The man in question was my unemployed cousin who had decided to fly in for the day to attend the wedding. Could he have worn on a suit on the plan? Sure I guess he could have. But in my book his taking the time (and money) to attend, whatever he was wearing, showed both the event and my aunt a heck of a lot of respect. Add I might add, a h*** of a lot more respect then those in attendance judging him for his dress.</p>
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<p>^^would it distress you if your own college son dressed like the tour guide?</p>
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<p>The idea that jeans can be dressy goes against the concept, since jeans were designed as work clothes for those doing physical labor, while dress clothes are supposed to be an indication that the wearer does not have to do physical labor (they are often too restrictive or uncomfortable or too easily damaged when used during any physical activity beyond walking for short distances). Polo / golf / tennis shirts were also designed for physical activity (sports), so they also go against the concept of of being dressy.</p>
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<p>or a corset and bustle</p>
<p>Ha ha 3togo, I have almost the opposite story. My H’s late grandmother was from that era where a lady <em>always</em> pulled herself together even if she was just around the house, and always looked elegant and put together in the fashions of her day, and continued her upkeep until she was at a point where she physically couldn’t do so. At her funeral, one of her grandsons (H’s cousin) showed up in sloppy clothing – the other men in the family were in the appropriate dark suits. (Not an issue of poverty or anything else. Just couldn’t be bothered.) In his tribute to his grandmother, he made mention of the fact that his clothing was sloppy but “Grandma wouldn’t have minded” - and some of the others commented afterwards, “Are you kidding? If Grandma were here, she’d have told you to straighten up and go put on a tie, you weren’t raised in a barn!”</p>
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<p>It’s completely irrelevant that they were designed as work clothes for those doing physical labor, and Levi Strauss and rivets and all of that. Here, today, in the US, in the year 2012, nice jeans (dark wash vs light, bootcut or skinny, with few embellishments) are appropriate in most everyday situations, outside of work environments that prohibit them. When worn in a polished fashion with a nice top / shoes, they can go to most restaurants except the most formal – which you couldn’t do 20 years ago. The fact that they were laborers’ wear way-back-when has nothing to do with anything whatsoever. The connotation of clothing changes over time. Personally, I’m glad, since jeans are lower maintenance than most other pants.</p>
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<p>The way to get comfortable black socks to go with your black dress shoes is to go to a store that sells running shoes and socks and find some black socks there.</p>
<p>I loved it that our tour guide was in sweaty running clothes. I felt it meant that my son would fit in there. As I said, the tour guide showered and changed into other clothes (it was really hot!) for interviews. And he was going to Harvard for grad school and I’ll bet he knew how to present himself.</p>
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<p>Aren’t you being a bit presumptuous by assuming someone who doesn’t make themselves “presentable” by your lights has “lost the will to live” or "depression?</p>
<p>That certainly wouldn’t have applied to the hippie parents or the neo-hippie HS/college classmates. If anything, they were some of the most happiest joyful people you could ever meet. They just completely reject what you’d consider acceptable dress or what you’d consider “being put together”. They have better things to concern themselves about…like lobbying/protesting for more sustainable environmental practices…</p>
<p>Another group who it wouldn’t have applied to were many HS classmates who’d otherwise couldn’t be bothered to “put themselves together”. Too much rigorous work day-to-day, long commutes (up to 2 hours each way), and jobs which don’t require/actually discourages nice dress*. To be fair, a part of it was also the campus culture which felt dressing up too stylishly meant one was overcompensating for possible academic/intellectual deficiencies. </p>
<p>Going back to my discussion about hippies/neo-hippies above, this reminds me of a lecture a HS classmate’s father once gave us about hippie activism in the 1960’s. In short, be grateful to the hippies/counterculture. We’re one of the reasons you no longer have to worry about college dress codes mandating formal clothing which empowered Profs to escort you out of class if you were missing any component such as a tie. Yes, the missing tie bit happened to said friend’s father when he was an NYU freshman in 1964 and his Prof immediately escorted him out and barred him for that day’s class. </p>
<p>To be fair to that father, he didn’t express the above nearly as bluntly as I paraphrased. </p>
<p>*i.e. Being a restaurant dishwasher.</p>
<p>Pizza–I consider throwing on a blazer over a t-shirt and jeans with all the proper accessories or a scarf dressed up :D. Again, very, very casual area here.</p>
<p>I’ve seen many versions of this thread here over the years, and I definitely fall into the far edge of not caring about fashion. My most worn shoes are white Reeboks, black Reeboks, and brown Reeboks! Despite this, my oldest D’s first purchase when she started working at age 15 was a Coach purse. I really thought it was stupid to pay $200 for a purse (and I still do), but it was her choice. She dresses up a lot on the job now and has figured out fashion on her own without any help from me. (Similarly she had to figure out makeup on her own, because I don’t own any.) I keep thinking we need to buy son a suit, I’m sure he doesn’t fit in the one we bought him freshman year of high school (5 years ago).</p>
<p>Cobrat, I like how not only do you manage to misinterpret that paragraph of Pizzagirl’s post, but you completely ignore the other paragraphs.</p>
<p>right mama bear!</p>
<p>Some people need those Coach purses to get by. I’m happy I’m not one of them, but we need everyone to keep this planet spinning.</p>
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<p>Generally, he should have a properly fitting suit and dress shirt, but finding properly fitting off-the-rack dress clothes can be hard to do with high school or college age guys (the usual stock is aimed at obese older men).</p>
<p>Even a joyful hippie can care about their appearance, as evidenced by the hundreds of beautiful handcrafted jewelry, handmade clothing and fair trade accessories shops that I frequented in Berkeley over the last 20 years. On behalf of beautiful, joyful hippies everywhere, please don’t speak for all of us. Many of us dress beautifully and our clothing is chosen with great care.</p>
<p>Despite this, my oldest D’s first purchase when she started working at age 15 was a Coach purse.</p>
<p>I worked while in high school to buy school clothes, but the first thing I bought as a working adult was a Burberry trench. I still have it, it still fits and it still looks great!
( I don’t have any Coach bags, but I have 4 or 5 from Michael Green who was a designer for Coach before they started slapping their initial on everything)</p>