<p>My son and I visited recently, and he liked the school and it has some specific elements that are really interesting to him academically and athletically, but since we've been home so many people from various parts of the country keep telling me it's a snooty place. </p>
<p>We are, as a family, the anti-snoots. We're a middle class, west coast, casual, poor-artist type family. S is interested in Williams, but I wonder would he fit in there? I have to admit we both got a slightly snooty vibe while we were there, but I encouraged him not to make snap judgements on one visit with limited contact with other students. But I wonder. I mean, he's not fussy and not necessarily looking for a school that is an identical match with his personalilty (funny, funky, hard-working, humble), he gets along okay with just about everybody, but I also don't want him to feel like he's in an alien landscape. Thoughts?</p>
<p>SoOre, Does the WASP to Wall Street connection and old-money, snooty profile still exist at Williams, Amherst, Princeton and a handful of eastcoast elites. Yes, probably. But is it the prevailing culture-defining experience? No, absolutely not.</p>
<p>Williams kids (and faculty and administration) are good people and come from a wide range of backgrounds -- racial, social, economic, religious, political. </p>
<p>My son is a recent graduate and I can attest that his friends and those families that I've had the pleasure to meet are as warm, kind, funny, smart, interesting and down to earth as you could hope for. </p>
<p>In fact, in spite of the incredible academics and art-related opportunities, it's the exposure to what we hope will be lifelong friends that makes Williams an astonishing experience.</p>
<p>If you'd like some details, pm me, I'd be happy to give you examples.</p>
<p>As the parent of a current Eph, I'd have to say funny, quirky, hard-working and humble are words that would accurately describe many of the students (spanning several class years) I've had the pleasure to meet. I haven't met any at all that I'd describe as snooty.</p>
<p>That's nice to hear, onemoremom. Why do you think people say that about Williams? Is it just an out-dated stereotype?</p>
<p>And thanks, momrath, for your comments. I would like to think it could be a really nice place to be for four years. </p>
<p>In many ways, the natural environment there, the remoteness, the charm of the place, is very similar to where we live. I think the whole package at Williams could be a place my kid would really feel at home, but wasn't sure why 8 or 10 people said right off to me that there was this snobby, elitist culture there. I'm very glad to hear that hasn't been your experience.</p>
<p>I guess my concerns were a little compounded when I heard what a large percentage of the students were economics majors. It seemed to correlate with some things I'd read about Wms students becoming investment bankers at high rates. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it was another thing that made me wonder about the dominant personality of the place.</p>
<p>Williams has lots of different types of people, like any other school, so I'm sure there're probably some who could give off a snooty vibe. It's definitely not the norm, though; the vast majority are really friendly. Yeah, i-banking is relatively popular (relatively being the key word - maybe 15% of students are econ majors and only some smaller percentage of those go into banking), but the single largest employer of Williams grads is Teach for America. I think that's pretty down-to-earth. </p>
<p>Williams kids do have a lot of school spirit, and we don't hold back in letting rival schools know how much better we are than them, so I guess it's possible some people could form impressions from that. But that's all in good fun; I don't think it's at all indicative of the social culture at Williams.</p>
<p>I think that wanting to be there is the key: If a remote New England village in a profoundly beautiful natural surrounding is appealing, then the student will have a happy four years. If s/he yearns for city life or suburban culture then Williams just isn't the place for him/her.</p>
<p>What Jeke says about life after Williams is true. Among my son's closest friends, many are involved in public service or NGO work, like Teach for America or the Peace Corps. The irony is that my son, the artist with an unorthodox homelife, chose to get a traditional job with a professional firm. :)</p>
<p>SoOreMom, From your nom de plume, I take it that you live in Southern Oregon (Ashland, Medford, Grants Pass?). I would not say that Williamstown is anything like that area of Oregon - very different climate and people.</p>
<p>Yeah, I didn't so much mean exactly like southern Oregon. I just meant in the broad parameters of being a small town, not adjacent to an urban center, lots of mountains and forests, etc. Out in the boonies.</p>
<p>We live in Ashland, and a good friend of mine who has spent much time in Williamstown said her biggest concern for a kid going from here to there is along the lines of "if you've done Ashland, you've done Williamstown."</p>
<p>That's not a concern for me though. My son would love to do Ashland <em>and</em> Williamstown.</p>
<p>But I have a different question about Williams now, related to financial aid. I'll start a new thread. :-)</p>
<p>Uhmmm....I do not consider Ashland to be the boonies! It has all of the major conveniences of a nearby urban center, Medford (and for that matter Talent/Phoenix), including a half-way decent public transit system, COSTCO, a decent mall, good restaurants (love the Breadboard), the Shakespeare Festival, and it is on the major north/south freeway on the West Coast, I-10. Williamstown, as nice as it may be, does not have all of this!<br>
Again, interior New England has a very different feel and look than Southern Oregon. If your son ends up in Williamstown, he will have a totally different experience than what he has experienced in the Rogue Valley.</p>
<p>SoOreMom: I had a really long post that inadvertently go deleted, so you get spared that! Now I'll be succinct.</p>
<p>Anything stuffy, snooty or pretentious is death to S. He practically gets hives! and he loves Williams. I think the purple cow convinced him pretentiousness was not the order of the day. His interests are in the arts/humanities though he does eventually want to go to Med School to be a part of Doctors Without Borders. (He has a plan.) He hates economics (took in HS) and would rather be a lumberjack than an IBanker. He is there with FA and fits right in. The entries are warm, welcoming environments. His comment his first week, "Mom, it's so great. When we were watching Family Guy (what, you thought they weren't going to watch junk TV, LOL) everyone knew who Stephen Hawking is! For the first time!"</p>
<p>BTW: Kids in his entry (he's a frosh) share his interest in music, classics and the environmental club. He has friends to go with to all his classes and ec's in these areas. Not plannedl. Just by chance.</p>
<p>Mythmom, I'm sorry your longer post got gulped. I would have loved to read it! That's a wonderful description of your son and his freshman experience. It does sound really great, and the detail in it really provides a counterweight to all the pre-judgements I've heard from other people. Thank you.</p>
<p>Top LACs (such as Williams) are generally comparable, in terms of selectivity, with top national universities (such as the Ivies), and there is substantial overlap in the applicant pool. However, the top universities have far greater name recognition and prestige among the general public. </p>
<p>For this reason, the snobs, name-droppers, and prestige hounds typically favor top universities over top LACs. This is not to suggest that all students at top universities fit this mold; they don't, except at Princeton (<- joke). But the people who do fit the "snooty" mold are attracted to top universities -- especially the Ivies -- like moths to a flame. They don't take much interest in LACs.</p>
<p>The students who do choose top LACs generally have the qualifications to get into Ivies or other well-known top universities. But they made a conscious decision to attend a lesser-known school instead. This is an anti-snooty thing to do.</p>
<p>The difference shows up in student social life as well. The Ivies are full of selective, exclusive student clubs -- eating clubs, finals clubs, frats, secret societies, etc. -- that provide prime opportunities to practice social climbing. The top LACs have deliberately moved away from this model; Williams, for example, banned such organizations decades ago. At LACs, any student club or organization is typically wide open to any interested participant.</p>
<p>“a half-way decent public transit system, COSTCO, a decent mall, good restaurants (love the Breadboard), the Shakespeare Festival ... Williamstown, as nice as it may be, does not have all of this! "</p>
<p>Williamstown is not exactly a desolate wasteland, either: Williams students enjoy a free shuttle to shopping and entertainment in the neighboring city of North Adams; nearby Walmarts and a Target (between 10 and 25 minutes away in North Adams, Lanesboro, and Pittsfield) as well as the Berkshire Mall; several good restaurants, many within walking distance in the Spring St./Water St. area; the Williamstown Jazz, Film, and Theatre festivals; several excellent museums and galleries in W'town and North Adams; and the many additional cultural attractions of the Berkshires. The quaint, artsy town of Bennington, VT is about 20 minutes north; 50 minutes west, Albany, NY offers additional cultural and commercial venues. (For parents, two great shopping outlets [inexpensive prices] lie 40 minutes north [Manchester, VT] and south [Lee, MA].)</p>
<p>I love and appreciate the many comments above and the care and obvious pride that people who know Williams feel about it. I find the snooty characterization quite curious, especially coming from the west. My son is a Williams soph and I've not met a more down to earth group of people than his Williams friends (we're from the west, as well...public hs). In fact, I don't know if I've met 10 people in the past year that have even heard of Williams (or Amherst or Wesleyan)...slight exaggeration but not that far off.... So, that's an issue western Williams (and other LAC) kids do have to contend with; the general ignorance about the many great eastern LACs among the general population, especially in the west. He and his friends deal with this "limited notoriety" back home with humor and grace. That suggests that egos are far from inflated there; You have to have a reasonable degree of confidence when you know that most people where you live have not even heard of your college. (They might mistake it for William and Mary!) And my son (who is not on financial aid) has a job at 7:30 every morning at a grocery store in Williamstown (The Ephporium) for two hours before class...not a particularly snooty activity. He enjoys the work and is hardly alone among his friends by working to earn some spending and tuition money. Anyway, that's one westerner's take. I might add that his enthusiasm for Williams, his faculty and friends is a joy to behold. Purple Cows hardly lend themselves to snootiness. :) Good luck with your son's decision!</p>
<p>Dok, the comments I've heard about Williams being snooty haven't been from fellow west-coasters. Like you said, most don't even know of Williams. However, a lot of people are just ignorant about LACs in general, even ones on the west coast. When we mention our visits to Pomona, people clearly don't have any idea what we're talking about. Two people even thought it was a community college!</p>
<p>As a freshman here, i'd say that there are definitely some (emphasis on some) snooty students here, mostly the result of many Williams students coming from old money. However, there's an even spread, and a lot of the old-money kids are down-to-earth. While it's true that Williams is a lot less snooty than its ivy cousins, there is some snootiness. But I suppose that an upper-middle/ upper class student ( practically the entire school) probably wouldn't notice it. That's coming from a lower middle class/ lower class perspective.</p>
<p>First, your son that is applying, not yourself.
Second, the changes to be experienced by your son will be transformational.<br>
Third, Let GO! Nothing worse than parents who dwell on sibling outcomes.
Fourth, how you perceive yourelf is a matter of your self worth. Williams is an open environment that is student friendly. If your personal concerns about class differentiation is so important, then perhaps another choice is appropriate. Williams students are outstanding. Perhaps your insecurities are obscuring the sunlight of a world class outlook.</p>
<p>Best Wishes and look forward to having you apply here soon.</p>
<p>Williams is most respectful. Yes, the fresman level is can be challenging. There is no group of students who are not pro EPH than at Williams. Williams is caring, loving, challenging and competative. Unless of course you you require attention. That is a deficit we cannot account for.</p>