Isn't the information about college admission confusing?

Applying to College
1

Well, if you look at the type of activities that could almost “guarantee” a place in HYPSM, like positions in national olympiad camps, top awards in intel / Siemens science fair, programs like RSI, SSP, TASP, Cosmos, SSTP, etc, and consider that there’s probably overlap, and consider that one would also need “other great attributes” to get in, I roughly estimate that there’re only like less than 1,000 people per year who could meet the high standard, while HYPSM matriculate over 5,000. What’s other 4,000’s profile like? The top 10 adding together matriculate much more. What does it take, and why can’t I be one of them, who does not have those top honors but still get in the top school?

In addition, as it is said that 1540 SAT cannot guarantee a place in great school, even for HYPSM and ivies there’re like 50% or more students under 1540. Why can they get in? Why can’t a 1540 who is not anti-social or so get in?

Anyway, it’s all confusing to me. I see too many really great and nice people failed to get to the top, while some creepy I know with not that strong profile and definitely terrible personality succeeded.

2

It may be hard to read as there’re some grammatical mistakes. I typed too fast. But I think you can get my point.

3

Why to you want to bother to “get in?”

What are you actually looking for?

Are you trying to win some kind of a game?

Are you looking to develop yourself? If so, how?

4

Maybe they want to build a class of creepy people with terrible personalities …

5

Competitive schools are looking to balance their class - this includes everything from intended major, geographic location, gender, ethnic diversity, ECs, etc… And that’s after they’ve already taken their hooked applicants - recruited athletes, legacies, and children of major donors.

Of course you can be one of the people that a school feels will fill their needs on campus. It’s just a long shot so you need to focus your list on match and safety schools (as was discussed in your other thread).

6

College admissions can absolutely be confusing, and tough to predict.

It depends how you define a ‘great’ school, if one uses only rankings that could lead to disappointment. Schools build their classes according to their institutional priorities, and applicants who fit those priorities, and/or demonstrate a good match for the unhooked spots will have a greater chance of acceptance.

You received much good feedback on your other threads that should help you as you gear up to apply to schools for fall 2021.

7

It may be helpful if you view the selection process from the perspective of the school admissions officers. Their goal–at the most selective schools–is to build a class.

Building a class means that many needs & wants of any particular school need to be satisfied. Schools need males & females of different races/ethnicity from different geographical regions and seek socio-econmic diversity. Schools need athletes, musicians, scholars, dancers, artists, writers, math & science whizzes and students with a variety of academic & social interests.

The most elite schools attract the top students in terms of academic achievement & in terms of stats (high GPAs & high standardized test scores).

Additionally, the process is a bit clouded because there are no set qualifying standards that one has to meet in order to apply to any particular group of schools. And there is no limit as to how many schools to which one may apply.

While many foreign school systems prioritze verified academic achievements, US colleges & universities strive for diversity in all of its forms, and seek “entertainers” as well (athletes, musicians, dancers, actors, & writers).

Diversity brings more varied perspectives to campus. Students live together, learn together, and learn from each other both in & out of the classroom.

Sometimes admission is determined by a single need such as for classics majors, a quarterback on the football team, or members for the marching band, school orchestra, dance troupe, or journalists to write for the student paper. Leadership is a prized attribute as is documented success in research or in community service.

In short, US colleges & universities create/build communities based on much more than academics.

8

Very well put @Publisher. Your answer should be pinned!

That’s why students should not take admissions decisions personally.

9

How do you know who has a strong profile and who doesn’t? Unless you’ve personally read the applications and essays, you really can’t know. Top colleges could fill their seats many times over with the number of high stats students who apply every year. So those who meet the academic bar have to show their fit in other ways.

Colleges look for students who will add to their campus community. You come from a wealthy family, so high stats are expected. What have you done with the opportunities you’ve been given? According to your other threads you don’t volunteer much. You raise money for causes, but don’t seem to get involved in the day to day ground work. You participate in athletics, not for the comraderie, teamwork, or challenge, but because it makes you more physically appealing.

You don’t seem to know much of anything about the prestigious schools you’d like to attend except that your parents will be full pay and they’re willing and able to pay. How are you going to craft essays that show how you match what they want if you don’t even know what that is?

10

Thanks for all helpful replies!

But there’s still one problem concerns me, which I failed to imply in the initial post, that though awards and accomplishments as “musicians” or “football players” cannot be fake, it’s not hard to “fabricate” or exaggerate qualities simply in the essays. Unfortunately, those “qualities” seem to be exactly the things universities are looking for. Any smart student can make everything seem nice in the essay. For instance, as long as one has a minor role in student government, he can indulge in verbiage, talking about how “committed”, “responsible” he is. People in the same school but not knowing exactly what he really has done may buy it, not to mention the admission office.

As for @austinmshauri’s personal engagement about me, the answer to your question is simply that I spend most time on what I’m good at and consider distinctive. I’m not athletes who can win national games, and I can reach all those benefits you listed through other methods. The volunteer work, to be honest, is ridiculous and meaningless for students with normal background and hence little power. Rather than 200 hour community service or some small-scale fuss, I prefer studying 200 hours, trying to reach higher position in the future, and then it’s time to be philanthropist. The difference in efficiency here is quite obvious. Also, as I mentioned, I can absolutely tell you a lot about how I sacrificed and feel genuinely happy through volunteering, if I only want to give a good impression on the internet, with this just-signed-up e-mail account for college confidential. But actually, I hate talking about things that cannot be verified, even though I have to do so for most of my time in real-life.

11

We once had a admission person tell us to look at admissions like a football draft. The school needs a team. And a team means people to fill every position. You might be a quarterback and a great quarterback, but if the school already has enough quarterbacks you might not get in. But if you are a kicker and they need a kicker, you might be offered a spot, even though your grades and test scores are lower than a quarterback they turned down.

I think the mistake that many students make is thinking that going to HYPSM is the only path to success. Or that going to a school ranked 12 is so much better than doing to a school ranked 15. I think it’s important to think about what is going to help you reach your goals AND provide you with the college experience you want. What schools offer your major? Are you focused on one path or do you want the opportunity to explore different interests? Some schools are more flexible than others. Do you want to do research? Some schools have better opportunities for undergrads. Do you want a competitive environment or a more collaborative one? Does location (urban, rural, suburban) matter? Does cost matter?

As for your last post, yes, people can exaggerate their activities and qualities, but admissions people aren’t stupid and can see through a lot of that. And recommendation letters will help give admissions a sense of who you are what you’ve accomplished. And if admissions wants to verify things, many can be done with a simple google search. If you search my D’s name you will easily be able to verify she was involved quite a few of the activities listed on her application. And her recommendation letters served to verify what sort of student and person she was .

It sounds like you are someone who is not interested in playing the admissions game. You want to study and learn over being involved in activities and volunteer work. That’s totally fine. But some schools are going to care about how you are going to contribute their campus and community beyond just taking up a seat in a classroom. That’s your job to express in your essay and through your recommendations. Do you plan to do research? If so, then what research is that school doing that interests you? Does the school provide a unique major or program that would help you reach your goals? If so, that’s a great topic for your “Why XYZ school” essay. You are going to have to think a little bit about what you are going to offer the school and not just want the school is offering you.

12

If something is important enough to tip the scale in college admissions it can be verified. Anything that can’t be verified probably isn’t that important.

Is this what top colleges say they want?

13

OP, on your other thread you said you moved here from the UK 7 or so years ago. Are you a US citizen, or do have a green card?

There will be colleges that would be happy to have you as a student, the trick is finding those ones and demonstrating a match to them (based on what they see as a fit), especially if they are among the more selective schools out there.

14

As already stated by “Mwfan1921” above: “It depends how you define a ‘great’ school”.

As you have recently learned, you have many choices in the US system. This actually makes it more confusing, and challenging. You need to define the characteristics you are looking for in your fields of study, pedagogical relationships and social environment.

It is a freedom which brings responsibility. You have more choices and decisions to make

15

It’s too late to edit my post above but I see from looking at your previous posts that I misunderstood your situation a bit. You are involved in some great activities. No, you’re not involved in “the type of activities that could almost “guarantee” a place in HYPSM” - but I don’t believe there are any of those type of activities. As we’ve all been saying, it really just depends on what the school is looking for and who applies. You can’t predict it. You just build a good list of safeties, matches and reaches and do your best to express who YOU are to admissions. Personally, I think being genuinely interesting and being involved in activities you care about is more important than being in the “right” activity.

Please do not go into the admissions process feeling like there is just one or 2 “right” schools for you - especially based on perceived prestige.

16

The other posters have given great commentary and advice.

I can only add that I have sat on a scholarship committee for two years now. A person doesn’t need to be an admissions officer for 20 years to spot aggrandizations of accomplishments. It becomes easy to pick out after reading only a few applications.

17

This is the problem. It may get you into some schools that care about grades, but not into schools that care about who you are as a person and what you can contribute to their community. And for the record, that would be all the top colleges you aspire to attend.

18

I can certainly think of a few famous ivy graduates who fit that profile…

19

OP: is going back to the UK for university an option? Oxbridge will care more than about just grades, but generally it’s much easier to get accepted to a top uni there on the basis of grades over other factors, plus not having to deal with slots reserved for athletes/legacy etc.

20
  1. Half or more of the slots in HYPSM and the rest of the Ivies/equivalents (outside of possibly relatively large Cornell) are taken by hooked applicants. And I'm not talking about ECs and essays. Your EC's aren't going to make you URM. Your essays won't make you a recruited athlete or parents rich/famous.
  2. In the US, top unis have relatively small undergraduate student bodies and this is a large country. At the undergrad level, all of the Ivies/equivalents (outside of Cornell) are smaller than any of Oxbridge/UTokyo/UKyoto/Keio/Waseda. 2 of Oxbridge offer more or as many slots as all of 5 of HYPSM and the UK is 1/5th the population of the US. On a per capita basis, all 2 of Oxbridge has an many slots as all 30 Ivies/equivalents in the US.

Put that all together, and it is exceedingly difficult to get in to HYPSM if you are unhooked and not unique in some way.

However, there is good news:

  1. Post-COVID, being full-pay likely gives you a leg up outside the Ivies/equivalents tier.
  2. Undergraduate admissions in the UK is a lot like grad school admissions except for undergrads, which means that care most about academic potential. Getting in to the UK Ivy-equivalents (Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial) is still not easy but you have a better shot if your main strength is being outstanding academically. Admissions to Canadian unis is straightforward as well.
  3. There are a ton of paths to success in the US. Why are you fixating on HYPSM?