It is 2013, parents; is Vassar really need blind ?

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<p>Actually, the percentage of full-pay students has been decreasing for at least 10 years.</p>

<p>Full-pay students as percentage of class.
CDS yr.03-04 [53%] 04-05 [54%] 05-06 [51%] 06 -07 [52%] 07-08 [47%] 08 09[43%] 09-10 [40%] 10-11 [37%]11-12 [39%] 12-13 [41%]</p>

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<p>Something else to consider: As high as 20% of the students at the top preps (Philips, Deerfield, St Paul’s, Choate, Exeter, etc.) receive full scholarships. These are the same students who qualify for Pell Grants. My guess is that their SAT/ACT scores are equal to or above a significant number of the middle-class and wealthy applicants. </p>

<p>The same can be said for the low-income students who attend the excellent, public charter high schools around the country.</p>

<p>CrewDad, Vassar’s President Hill wrote in September 2011 that 63.5% (see above) of Vassar students were on financial aid, so this means that 36.5% were full-paying. According to Vassar’s website, 56% of current freshmen are on financial aid, meaning that 44% are full paying.</p>

<p>Do we see the 36.5% figure rounded up to the 37% you mentioned in your post for “10-11”? That would mean that this year’s freshman class has not yet been added to the figures.</p>

<p>If I am interpreting this correctly, your figures show that the percentage of full paying students has been increasing over the last few years from 37% to 39% to 41% and now to 44% at a time when the number of Pell Grant recipients who have enrolled has been increasing. This means the middle class is getting squeezed out. This is what I’ve been saying throughout this thread, and I blame increased enrollment of wealthy students, who are already way over-represented on campus.</p>

<p>I understand that there was a big drop in the enrollment of wealthy students when Vassar became need-blind, but we would have to go back to 07-08 to find a class with a lower percentage of students on financial aid than this year’s freshman class. That doesn’t sound good to me.</p>

<p>Now, the only data we need is the percentage of Vassar students on Pell Grants for each year. With that information, we would finally be able to see how enrollment of middle class students on financial aid has changed over the years and compare the numbers to enrollments of Pell Grant students and wealthy students.</p>

<p>CrewDad, do you have access to that data? That data would complete the puzzle. </p>

<p>I was unaware that so many low-income students were enrolled at elite private high schools. I agree with you, CrewDad, that the low-income Pell Grant students from top prep schools probably aren’t bringing down the SAT score averages. </p>

<p>But if it isn’t the Pell grant students, who is bringing down the SAT score averages? Certainly not the small number of middle class students I know at Vassar.</p>

<p>The only data we need ARE the percentages of Vassar students on PG grants for each year. (I could not let that go uncorrected.)</p>

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<p>Which also directly coincides with the graph of the stock market from the high in '08 and the significant rebound from the financial crises and low in '09.</p>

<p>[Dow</a> Jones Industrial Average (1900 - Present Monthly) - Charting Tools - StockCharts.com](<a href=“http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/historical/djia1900.html]Dow”>http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/historical/djia1900.html)</p>

<p>It’s not unreasonable to suggest that there’s a correlation. I.e., more full-pay students applied and/or the yield of full-pay students increased proportionally relative to the returns of the stock market.</p>

<p>In any case, it’s pointless to speculate as to why there’s been an increase of full-pay students until there’s a few more years of data available.</p>

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<p>What percentage of full-pay students would be a fair representation?</p>

<p>^ At private schools with limited endowments (most of them?), it’s whatever percentage that keeps them long-term solvent. The financial markets have a direct influence on endowments. Alumni boards have a tough job planning for various contingencies, trying to insure long-term survival while maintaining short-term attractiveness to applicants.</p>

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<p>Your answer is of course correct.

[Endowment</a> Basics - Vassar and the Economy - Vassar College](<a href=“Institutional Research – Vassar College”>Institutional Research – Vassar College)</p>

<p>But my question was directed to nosering. I believe he will have an entirely different perspective, and I’m curious to hear his answer.</p>

<p>CrewDad, I cannot give you a simple answer to your question, but my answer, which I will restate here in (hopefully) clearer format, is laid out in responses #26 and #28 in this thread. </p>

<p>In posts # 26 and #28, I tried to create a few models to describe what the admissions picture would look like if Vassar had reduced admission of both middle class students on financial aid and wealthy students by the same proportions. </p>

<p>However, I don’t know the baseline percentage of Pell Grant recipients in the student body before the adoption of the policy to recruit more low-income students. I don’t even know exactly when Vassar changed its policies and increased the number of Pell Grant recipients in the student body, or if the college gradually increased their numbers. All I know (or think I know) is that the current figure is 20%, and you, CrewDad, implied that it’s even higher.</p>

<p>In my calculations, I used the information available and played around with assumptions. I used 40% as the baseline figure for the enrollment of wealthy students (which is the same as the figures CrewDad found of 39% and 41% for the last two years). I used the figure of 40%, because last year, 40% of the student body at Vassar (classes of 2013-2016) was wealthy (as indicated on the common data set), and I was contrasting this number with the current freshman class, in which 44% are wealthy. 60% of students at Vassar last year were on financial aid. </p>

<p>(By wealthy, I am referring to those students not on financial aid.)</p>

<p>Let’s assume that PG enrollment was 15% before the adoption of the new policy to increase PG enrollment to 20%. That would mean that 45% of the student body was composed of middle class students on financial aid (60%-15%=45%) at baseline. </p>

<p>Using these assumptions, if enrollment of middle class and wealthy students had decreased proportionately, enrollment of middle class and wealthy students would have decreased from 45% to 42.3% and from 40% to 37.7%, respectively. However, the enrollment of middle class students on financial aid decreased to 36%, while enrollment of wealthy students increased to 44%.</p>

<p>Of course, if Vassar had kept the proportions constant, the percentage of students on financial aid would have increased to 62.3% from 60% and instead decreased to 56%.</p>

<p>You could develop alternative models assuming other baseline percentages of Pell Grant students, but I doubt the baseline percentage was much higher than 15%. If it were much higher, say 18%, why would Vassar bother to make a big deal over admission of a few more Pell Grant students and warn traditional applicants that their numbers would be reduced?</p>

<p>I don’t think the big drop in middle class enrollment happened by chance alone. </p>

<p>CrewDad, by and large, the people who benefited from the economic recovery were already rich, not the sort of people who ever would apply for financial aid. Companies aren’t hiring, and wages for the middle class have remained stagnant. You have to own stocks to have benefited from a rebounding stock market. The stocks the middle class own, to the extent that they own them, are mostly tied up in retirement funds that Vassar does not consider when calculating financial aid.</p>

<p>In answer to your question, CrewDad, at the very least, I would have liked to see that as Vassar boosted PG enrollment the college did not decrease the overall percentage of students on financial aid and held it steady at 60%. At the very least, I would have liked to see that Vassar did not use admission of PG students as a ploy to increase admission of wealthy ones. </p>

<p>CrewDad, based on the link you provided to Vassar’s endowment page, it sounds as though the college is admitting that it is not need-blind, which I suspected all along. You and Vonlost use this finding to excuse the evidence that enrollment of middle class students has declined disproportionately, and I turn it around and use it to say, “See, I told you so. Vassar is not need-blind. How can Hill claim the college is?”</p>

<p>Applicants need to know the truth. I googled some articles and quickly came across an article published by a college advisor in the Huffington Post who wrote, “ juniors in the process of developing a balanced college list should make note of schools that have a need-blind or need-aware admissions policy in order to accurately assess chances of admission.” Middle class students have a right to know the truth before they spend time completing Vassar’s application and forking over the application fee. </p>

<p>Hill has written that other colleges are understandably having debates about whether they can remain need-blind. She mentions Wesleyan, which has a low endowment, and Grinnell, which has a higher percentage of students on financial aid than Vassar does, including a long history of enrolling more than 20% of students on Pell Grants. When I googled this information, I found evidence of gut-wrenching public debates on these campuses about what to do. No matter what these colleges decide (and Wesleyan is now need-aware for the last 10% of the class admitted), some people will object. But at least the debates are out in the open. The presidents are being honest that they have to make choices. One of the ways in which Grinnell is trying to increase the enrollment of full paying students not on financial aid is by marketing to them. Many colleges do this, but at least Grinnell is being honest about it. I cannot find evidence of open debate of this sort at Vassar other than statements that Vassar and the Board of Trustees have proudly decided to do the right thing and remain need blind. That’s hogwash, especially when the percentage of wealthy students in the student body has steadily been increasing since the college returned to being need-blind. </p>

<p>Perhaps Hill should either admit that Vassar is not need-blind and that only enrollment of middle class students has been decreased to make room for Pell Grant students, or she should provide a reasonable explanation for the evidence (backing up her explanation with data) to prove that I am wrong and that Vassar will continue to be need-blind both in practice and in spirit.</p>

<p>In my dreams, what I’d really like to see happen is for someone at Vassar to realize that word is getting out that people are questioning whether Vassar is truly need-blind and for this trend to reverse. I want to be able to look next year at Vassar’s website and see that 60%+ of the class of 2018 is on financial aid. I also want to hear that Vassar has continued its efforts to recruit PG students. But I suspect that’s not realistic. Vassar’s endowment is high but not that high.</p>

<p>That’s why I keep posting replies to college confidential posters who argue with me. Thanks for keeping this debate alive. Special thanks are due to Vonlost. The debate would have died very early in this thread if not for him/her. But at some point, I am going to have to quit and get back to my own life. Maybe now is the time. I’ve done everything I can.</p>

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<p>A class of ~40 percent full-pay students is being realistic.
Someone has to help subsidize the financial aid students. :)</p>

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<p>Obviously, the New York Prudent Management of Institutional Funds Act doesn’t pertain to institutions located in other states, however, the Vassar endowment information and procedures–excluding investment returns and asset allocation–apply to almost every LAC.</p>

<p>I’m just going to add that I am personally middle class and gets tons of financial aid in the form of Vassar grants. Vassar is absolutely amazing and I am shocked every time I hear of a middle class friend who almost transferred for financial reasons, spoke to the financial aid office, and suddenly had their financial aid package doubled. I don’t know of any other liberal arts colleges that are this generous. Vassar’s financial aid office is extremely responsive to students’ changing situations.</p>

<p>Vassar is consistently in the top 10 schools for financial aid. That being said, those of us in the middle income brackets have a difficult time paying for any college, state or private. Our taxes pay to help lower income kids to go the college(I don’t have a problem with this) but we in the middle get no help. For example, NYS gives us $ 500 towards the cost of college based upon our income. The government must stop giving easy to get loans which just encourage colleges to continue raising costs.</p>

<p>“Our taxes pay to help lower income kids to go the college …”</p>

<p>Vassar is private, so no direct tax support, unless you mean Pell grants that help low-income students everywhere.</p>

<p>Vonlost, Vassar gets federal support derived from federal taxes in the form of grants to faculty members whenever a faculty member gets a grant from the NSF or any federal agency or federally funded foundation. When these grants are awarded to a faculty member, the college also receives a separate (big) check to cover building and other expenses. </p>

<p>When a faculty member gets a Fulbright Scholarship, the American middle class tax payer has helped to pay for it. Students benefit indirectly. The public also foots the bill for Fulbright Scholarships awarded in large numbers to Vassar graduates (who have benefited from a Vassar education). </p>

<p>I am not an education economist. I cannot even begin to guess how much federal money Vassar or any other college receives, but it is not a paltry sum. It’s not simply money from Pell Grants.</p>

<p>Vassar has said it has increased the number of Pell Grant students on campus. The figure is supposedly at least 20%, maybe even higher. I’ve also shown in previous posts that since Vassar supposedly adopted a policy of being need-blind around 2007, the enrollment of financial aid students has dropped every single year despite the increased enrollment of PG students. This means that the percentage of middle class students who qualify for financial aid but not PGs has dropped considerably, while the percentage of wealthy students not on financial aid has risen steadily.</p>

<p>All the elite colleges receive lots of money from the feds in one way or another, but not all claim to be need-blind when the evidence suggests otherwise. Most do not have a president openly criticizing other college presidents for not doing things her way, which includes limiting the number of middle class students from families that pay a portion of Vassar’s costs in the form of federal taxes.</p>

<p>Borghugh claims that his taxes help lower income kids go to college. But he is getting help, too, in the form of (as he says) an excellent financial aid package from Vassar. The federal taxes he pays are helping Vassar to provide HIS child with an education. The middle class students who are hurt are those who qualify for Vassar but are rejected in favor of either a PG student or a wealthy student and wind up at state university where, according to Borghugh, they might be paying even more than he is paying. </p>

<p>It doesn’t seem to bother Borghugh or KGB that the percentage of middle class students at Vassar keeps dropping. They sound perfectly willing to pull up the ladder behind them, and yet Borghugh still complains. </p>

<p>It’s old news now, but GWU was caught claiming that they are need-blind when they aren’t. Vassar is probably merely better at cooking the books.</p>

<p>Has anyone on campus asked President Hill for an explanation of why the percentage of middle class students on financial aid keeps dropping while the percentage of wealthy students keeps increasing?</p>