<p>^But I'm pretty sure AA would fall more under the category of social conservatism, as it deals directly with the issues of race and race relations. I don't really see how economic conservatism plays a role here. The point is that you claim to be very conservative and think affirmative action should be changed, but yet it is unlikely to believe that you aren't going to let Yale know that you're black, because you're hoping that your skin color will give you that little extra boost that might get you in. </p>
<p>And I can't believe you called that fear-mongering bigot a great American.</p>
<p>Seems like you won't use your race to your advantage considering you don't think AA is just. [/sarcasm]</p>
<p>Oh and the last part of your statement Dbate, really makes me question if you consider yourself Black. Just so you know a little bit about Jerry Falwell:</p>
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Falwell strongly supported racial segregation. In 1965, he gave a sermon at his Thomas Road Baptist Church criticizing Martin Luther King, Jr. and the Civil rights movement, which he sometimes referred to as the "Civil Wrongs Movement". On his Evangelist program The Old-Time Gospel Hour in the mid 1960s, he regularly featured segregationist politicians like Lester Maddox and George Wallace.[12] He said this about Martin Luther King: "I do question the sincerity and non-violent intentions of some civil rights leaders such as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Mr. James Farmer, and others, who are known to have left wing associations."[13]
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Falwell's legacy today is mixed: while supporters praise his advancement of his conservative message, many of his detractors find fault with his open homophobia, anti-Semitism, support of racial segregation during the Civil Rights Movement, and his highly controversial statements blaming gays, feminists, pagans and abortionists for the September 11 attacks. These controversies, however, never bothered him during his lifetime, and he often stated, "I'm not called to be popular; I'm called to be faithful."
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"During an appearance on MSNBC, Falwell said he was not troubled by reports that Supreme Court nominee John G. Roberts had done volunteer legal work for gay rights activists on the case of Romer v. Evans. Falwell told MSNBC's Tucker Carlson that if he were a lawyer, he too would argue for civil rights for gays. "I may not agree with the lifestyle, but that has nothing to do with the civil rights of that part of our constituency," Falwell said. When Carlson countered that conservatives "are always arguing against 'special rights' for gays," Falwell said that equal access to housing, civil marriage, and employment are basic rights, not special rights. "Civil rights for all Americans, black, white, red, yellow, the rich, poor, young, old, gay, straight, et cetera, is not a liberal or conservative value. It's an American value that I would think that we pretty much all agree on."[11]"
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<p>As far as race is concerned, do you think george washington was a great American? Despite the fact that he died bc of an illness he caught by constantly going to the slave quaters and raping black women?</p>
<p>I do not agree with everything ppl say, but i can distinguish. Anne Coulter in her book said black ppl were not as intelligent as whites, did it bother me some. But it was a good book and alot of her views are correct even though some may be wrong.</p>
<p>Oh i use black in some threads I have created over 100, and in each one I true to create and attention grabber to solict responses, each of us knows how many threads on here get no responses. I want response so I want my title to be different. On a side note, can you show me where in those threads i every say I should get in BECAUSE i am black. In fact it is only one that I inquire how race will directly impact my admission and that is engineering, only bc it is a field that is not housed by a lot of minorites, in every other thread besides the title i never use race as a justification, NEVER.
I post my race when given stats, bc well every other person does. But also how many threads have you seen by someone stating that they are white or Asian or speak of a geographic location in the title, many. Why bc it is something different in the hopes that someone will respond.</p>
<p>But alas I will extend the actual point of this thread. You never answered the arguement where I say that the positives of Clinton as a VP, outwiegh the negatives. Isn't attacking an opponent the type of "old style politics" Obama is supposed to be against ;)!</p>
<p>Hippo remember you can disagre with someone or a view and still be nice toward them. hippo I classify AA under economic conservativism bc the notion that it challenges is the concept of allowing ppl to act independently of government interaction, which is mostly considered in regards to economic policy and governmental matters as opposed to like abortion which challenges conservatism based on moral grounds.</p>
<p>lol. Falwell, like you, was defending something (Judge Roberts a conservative judge) because it was expedient for him to do so. Anyone who knows anything about him knows that Falwell was a hate mongerer. Even though I've never heard of GW doing that (but lets just assume it's true for the sake of argument), you know it's not comparable. Obviously GW was a great American but what he did was centuries ago when such actions were reasonable. And he also recognized the errors of his ways so upon his death he freed all his slaves. Falwell's comments were made relatively recently, where they weren't really acceptable, and there's little to suggest Falwell changed his views markedly before his death. I agree that you don't have to agree with everything someone says to respect them, but there are certain things that are deal-breakers. I don't understand how you can respect someone who, in the common day, has the nerve to say your race is dumber than theirs! How can't that infuriate you? How can you find it in you to respect them? They certainly don't respect you! The point of me bringing up those threads were to show that you are going to leverage the fact that you're Black in the admissions process despite finding AA wrong. Can you deny that?</p>
<p>Edit: And I did answer it.</p>
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Frankly, Obama couldn't pick Clinton because of how she took him to task in the primaries.
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<p>This alone is a deal-breaker. Clinton took Obama to task way too many times for her to be considered a viable VP. It goes against change and it's not going to get many voters. Most of those seriously supporting Clinton would go over to Obama. Biden is a relatively safe pick who adds a bit to the campaign. Better to be safe than sorry especially when you're winning.</p>
<p>So basically the dichotomy is acceptablity, well if it is one day acceptable to hate gay ppl would you say it is then permissible?</p>
<p>It does not infuriate me bc I deal with that constantly, every time I am at a science competition or a debate competition or meet a new person they assume I am dumb bc i am black it has happened so often that I can notice when they discover I am not, there is a changed in thier eyes and in their intonation sometimes as well. The good thing I will say about liberal places is that in San Fran, noone auto assumed that I was dumb or that i was going to steal.</p>
<p>In fact among my friends who are at the top of our class (they are Asian and I am usually the only black) they even joke that i am not black, bc on a pyschological level many ppl equate being black to being dumb. Ann just says what alot of ppl think.</p>
<p>^Despite what Falwell might have said on that tv appearance, the fact that he blamed non-christians, people who have had abortions and gays for the September 11 attacks is just simply inexcusable. No matter what your viewpoint on these things, it is absurd to assume that they are the reasons that the attacks took place that day. It's an accusation that is not only ripe with a deluded sense of self-superiority, but is also incredibly hateful and downright stupid.</p>
<p>Yes, the dichotomy is acceptability, or as I would put it, context. If it was "one day acceptable to hate gay ppl" I wouldn't be harsh on that person because the person couldn't see right from wrong, or at least it was a lot harder. Today, however, people who hate on gays are well, retards. Dbate, you're sort of troubled in your thinking. Because some people think you're dumb or you're a low-life because of your race doesn't make it acceptable in anyway shape or form. Just because you deal with it doesn't make it right. It also doesn't make it any better if they know that you respect Anne Coulter and Jerry Falwell. Frankly, you need to realize that you're better than that and that people who are racist in the common day and era should not be respected by anyone, especially a young Black male.</p>
<p>Cervantes: That sounds right and all, but it is a pervasive thing that has been substianted numerous times. I really am over it. If you look over that AA, thread you will see that I was debating a person over whether blacks were less intelligent than whites or Asians, I feel that having objectivity towards these things is better bc I am not interested in changing ppl's beliefs, but rather objectivity is the best way to debate. </p>
<p>Hippo: I would like to believe( believe obviously bc I do not know him) that what the quote shows is the layers within ppl. The blaming of the attacks on those groups ties into the debate within Christian doctrine as to whether a nation is punished in the present day for the sins of thier ppl. So another contextual situation, it did not mean he hated these ppl but was saying that sin will bring the wrath of GOD.</p>
<p>So, if I get you straight, you will respect, and even go far enough to call that person "A great American", someone in the modern day and age that thinks that your race is intellectually inferior to theirs and also believes in racial segregation all in the sake of "objectivity"? Just tell me if I'm putting words into your mouth. If I'm not, I don't even know what to recommend you to do except to go to the most liberal college you can find in the nation. I'd hope after four years of that you'll change your views completely.</p>
<p>^Dbate, you have avoided answering the question; on your application to Yale, will you or will you not check off the box that says you are black, hoping that AA will give you a slightly better chance of getting in? And if you are, that contradicts your stance on AA. </p>
<p>The thing is Dbate, a lot of Americans tend to forget that we're not the only country on Earth and that it can be beneficial to look to other countries every so often. If Jerry Falwell had done this, he would have realized that God has not taken out his wrath on Canada, Spain (and the rest of Western Europe), and South Africa. And if he were taking out his wrath on America, why not aim for Massachusetts or San Francisco?</p>
<p>Jesus Christ, how is whether some guy will check black on the race part of his application to Yale the point of this thread now? </p>
<p>Both of you, go away. This thread is about Biden and the election and people who came here to read about that don't appreciate sifting through your stupid argument.</p>
<p>Jesus Christ, how is whether some guy will check black on the race part of his application to Yale the point of this thread now? </p>
<p>Both of you, go away. This thread is about Biden and the election, and people who came here to read about that don't appreciate sifting through your stupid argument.</p>
<p>Cervantes: I would argue that by opposing abortion and galvanize an entire generation to the point that 1 more justice and we can end Roe v. Wade is a GREAT thing. It would say 1.2 million innocent babies a year, alot of who are black.</p>
<p>Hippo: To answer your question I will, the reason being is that I truly have faced challenges in being black and intelligent. That is a reality that I have had to deal with all my life. So why should I not? Besides noone rails against legacies, so I figure it is okay.
The thing with the Christian thing is that the punishment would be in Christian lands bc WE allowed the things to take place. Again The Will of GOD, is not something that is easily understood and theologians study and investigate it constantly. Remember that is different than interpetating WORD, bc what they interpet is actions.</p>
<p>Sorry Unleashed fury, but sometimes CC threads take a different course. :)</p>
<p>Dbate, there are many Conservative Christians, who are anti-abortion, and who are anything but racist. I know several. You don't have to respect everyone who is anti-abortion just like I wouldn't respect everyone who is not racist. Just because you don't respect people who are pro-abortion doesn't make everyone who is against it your friend.</p>
<p>About AA, that comes back to the initial attack. You don't think AA is right yet you're still going to use it to your advantage. From what I can tell from your EC's you grew up at the very least middle class so your justification is not from economic hardship. Your challenges in "being black and intelligent" as you put it are inherent in every qualified Black male who applies to top schools. Doesn't seem like a good reason for you to take advantage of something you don't think is right. If I were you I'd seriously reconsider some of my views. They are pretty contradictory on all facets. At times they are self-serving while at others self-deprecating. You respect people who do not respect you. It all comes back to my main theme, you seem pretty confused on where you stand on things despite the "objectivity" with which you debate.</p>
<p>The thing with the Christian thing is that the punishment would be in Christian lands bc WE allowed the things to take place</p>
<p>The thing is though, Spain is largely Roman Catholic and Canada is also very much Christian. South Africa also has a decent Christian population. All these countries are "guilty" of the same "sins" as America-and even to a greater extent-yet they remain completely untouched by "God."</p>
<p>Americans like to believe (rather delusionally) that they are the only nation God pays attention to.</p>
<p>No I really am not confused. There are challenges that black ppl face that are unique. When you are in a class and you are the only black and one of the smartest yet ppl will not even consider that you are correct on things. It does affect you. Being black and smart has meant that I am not connected to the vast majority of black ppl, bc well alot of ppl feel that outside a certian mold a person is not black. I have been called a Uncle Tom and an Oreo, all bc I am black and smart, I feel that these are circumstances that other applicants will not have to deal with, in that light I do not think that it would be wrong to say that I am black, heck I say I am black and am black on the things that disadvantage me, why not on the one time it helps?</p>