<p>Evil warmongers? Fine, you have your opinion, and I'll have mine.</p>
<p>"Jesus may have advocated peace, but He was no liberal -- not in the contemporary sense. If Jesus showed up today and began preaching, liberals would call Him a brainwashed bigot."</p>
<p>Quite the contrary. Liberals would embrace him because he advocates defending of the weak and the oppressed, values that liberals hold dear. It is the religious leaders who would not even recognize him, any more than the recognized him the first time. He had nothing for disdain for the hypocritical, self-righteous, dogmatic, judgmental, violent, prejudiced religious leaders, whom he called 'whitewashed on the outside but inside like dead man's bones.'</p>
<p>from <a href="http://jesusisaliberal.org/%5B/url%5D">http://jesusisaliberal.org/</a></p>
<p>"...Webster's dictionary defines a Liberal as one who is open minded, not
strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional or established forms or
ways. Jesus was a pluralist Liberal who taught that one need not
conform to strict and orthodox views of God, religion, and life. He
rejected greed, violence, the glorification of power, the amassing of
wealth without social balance, and the personal judging of others, their
lifestyles and beliefs.</p>
<p>Over and over again, He taught us to believe in and live a spiritual and
ethical life based in our essential, inherent goodness. What Jesus
promoted was succinct set of spiritual principals and a way of life
based upon the of love, compassion, tolerance, and a strong belief in
the importance in giving and of generosity to those in need..."</p>
<p>Click on above link for...</p>
<p>Biblical Quotes Supporting the Belief that Jesus Is A Liberal</p>
<p>Fides, just what is it that you think Jesus could say that the liberals would think was brainwashed bigotry? Seriously, I am curious.</p>
<p>
[quote]
True, but Iraq wasn't exactly a playground before we invaded. I don't know numbers, but innocent Iraqis were killed under Sadaam's regime too.</p>
<p>Either way, if you want to do something about something, why not Sudan?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Oh of course not...but it was uh, more organized? for lack of better term. this is just one mass chaotic quagmire. I hate the killing of innocents in any situation. </p>
<p>and on Sudan... I do activism projects dedicated to genocide awareness and I receive materials for Students Taking Action Now: Darfur (STAND, as it is more commonly known) for my school's MUN/AI club. I'm actually much more of a genocide activist than I am a peacenik. :) More of a humanitarian... One of the reasons I chose Brandeis is because it has such a huge STAND chapter.</p>
<p>I went to the Darfur rally in DC, and saw Elie Wiesel, and had the best day of my life.</p>
<p>(off topic, of course, sorry).</p>
<p>We can't do something about Sudan, at least militarily, because all our troops are bogged down in Iraq. Why do you think Iran and North Korea have gotten so daring lately? Because we don't have any military muscles to flex anymore.</p>
<p>"Quite the contrary. Liberals would embrace him because he advocates defending of the weak and the oppressed, values that liberals hold dear."</p>
<p>Oh, like the unborn?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Oh, like the unborn?
[/quote]
You know, I'm starting to think conservatives bring up abortion in every debate because you don't have any better arguments.
Why the hell are we even talking about Jesus? Is Jesus going to descend from Heaven and fix the situation in Iraq?</p>
<p>
[Quote]
We can't do something about Sudan, at least militarily, because all our troops are bogged down in Iraq. Why do you think Iran and North Korea have gotten so daring lately? Because we don't have any military muscles to flex anymore.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>But American is not the world. :)</p>
<p>The war was never over. The war's still going on, and escalating. Yes, the troops did what they were told to do which is march into Baghdad, but Baghdad is infested with insurgents and troops are dying on a daily basis. The war's far from over. The war was never over. Mission accomplished: yes, but the war is still going on and escalating because of the chickenhawk that is Bush. </p>
<p>If there is a draft, I'm moving to Canada. I can't support a "mission" that's obviously going to fail because the idiots in DC can't get it into their heads that THE IRAQIS WANT US TO GO HOME.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But American is not the world.
[/quote]
Unfortunately, the rest of the world either doesn't care or doesn't have the power to do anything. Populations in Europe are generally a lot more liberal and even less supportive of war than in the United States. Who else would take over? UN Peacekeeping Forces will never do anything effectively in their current state, and there's a certain irony to a nation like China acting for humanitarian reasons. It's optimistic thinking, but I don't think it's really possible.</p>
<p>Isn't only a small percentage of our military in Iraq, though? I don't recall the number nor would it probably still be correct since I heard it last year in my gov/eco class, but I remember it being small.</p>
<p>""Quite the contrary. Liberals would embrace him because he advocates defending of the weak and the oppressed, values that liberals hold dear."</p>
<p>"Oh, like the unborn?"</p>
<p>That's right. Like the unborn. He would surely champion them, no doubt about it. He would also champion their poverty-stricken mothers, including the single, teenage mothers that the religious right likes to condemn for their 'sins.'</p>
<hr>
<p>"You know, I'm starting to think conservatives bring up abortion in every debate because you don't have any better arguments.
Why the hell are we even talking about Jesus? Is Jesus going to descend from Heaven and fix the situation in Iraq?"</p>
<p>Ha, that's great!!! Yeah, abortion is just ONE of the issues. It is ridiculously oversimplistic to think that ALL liberals agree on ALL issues, or that ALL conservatives agree on ALL issues!</p>
<p>Actually, though, since you mentioned, it, SOME conservatives do think JUST that - that Jesus will descend from heaven soon and rapture up the faithful, so there is no need to fix anything: Iraq, the environment, anything...none of it matters to the 'saved' because they won't be here. Never mind the toxic, wartorn planet being left to the poor schmucks left behind - they don't matter because they aren't 'saved.' This guy at work actually told me he doesn't care about all the Iraqis dying because they are going to 'hell' anyway.</p>
<p>That's despicable.</p>
<p>About 150,000 US troops are still deployed in Iraq. The total US armed forces numbers about 1.4 million in manpower.</p>
<p>However, you have to remember that not all those forces are deployable. 1.1 million are, in fact, stationed somewhere within the United States. Also, manpower is not the only concern as the military needs supplies such as firearms, explosives, body armor, ammunition, food, vehicles, etc. All this needs to be paid for, and the US is already potentially spending hundreds of billions of dollars on the war.</p>
<p>Being pro-life is more than enough to make one persona non grata to many liberals today. It's straight-up monstrous, evil bigotry to them.</p>
<p>Besides, Jesus was a very religious personality. All day long He talked about "God this, God that." And we all know what liberals think about those people.</p>
<p>"Being pro-life is more than enough to make one persona non grata to many liberals today. It's straight-up monstrous, evil bigotry to them."</p>
<p>That is easy for YOU to say. You are male. Even though I agree with you that abortion is wrong, I have compassion for the women who are faced with that decision. I think it is often victimizing to the woman as well as to the baby. You, being male, cannot possibly understand what it must be like. You seem to think women just go have abortions with nary a second thought. You fail to realize how agonizing it may be for them. </p>
<p>You, like many 'pro-lifers' (which is a misnomer, btw, since many think war is ok), are quick to cast judgment on the women, while being unable to have any compassion for them.</p>
<p>Yet, you don't see the contradiction. You thinking killing people in a war is ok. Say, what????</p>
<p>Since Christians think it is their calling to spread Jesus' message to the world, then here is a tip they might want to consider: Maybe if they were more consistent, people would listen to them more. Maybe if they were pro-life towards ALL life - including those 'unsaved' people in Iraq - and maybe if they had compassion for 'sinners' the way Jesus did, and maybe if they embraced the liberal principles of helping the poor and the weak, the way Jesus advocated, instead of adopting the 'more to the rich, f*** the poor' principles of the Republican party, then...maybe the silly liberals would listen to them and learn from them. (Maybe some of them would even convert! ha)</p>
<p>"Besides, Jesus was a very religious personality. All day long He talked about "God this, God that." And we all know what liberals think about those people.""</p>
<p><sigh> Ah, Fides, we've been over that already, several times. Please don't ask me to explain yet AGAIN the difference between authoritarian dogma and personal sprirituality.</sigh></p>
<p>It is true that the war in Iraq is a massive failure. But what is the alternative? Pulling out will make things much worse.
It will allow Iraq's neighbors and Islamic terrorists to take control of a fractured nation.</p>
<p>
[quote]
<sigh> Ah, Fides, we've been over that already, several times. Please don't ask me to explain yet AGAIN the difference between authoritarian dogma and personal sprirituality.
[/quote]
</sigh></p>
<p>Lol. Well said.</p>
<p>same here. well said</p>
<p>Thank you, Lealdragon.</p>
<p>Wow, thank YOU!</p>
<p>
[quote]
At this point, those troops that enter the war in Iraq do so willingly. Let it be their decision to fight. If a draft is initiated (and it won't be), then we will have something to protest.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Willingly? How naive are you? Many do it as a means of survival. A way out. A lot are brainwashed into thinking that by entering the military they will receive an education, respect, and dignity. But they don't. Look up the statistics. Have you ever met someone who was in the military? Have you seen what it does to them? These boys come backed changed and scarred. I have a friend who was voted "Mr. Aloha", which basically means he was the nicest and most outgoing kid in his class. But now, after serving a year in the marines, he is completely different. He is very subdued and rarely speaks with anyone. I miss my friend, but have a feeling that he will never be back.</p>
<p>As a 17 year old female, the idea of war and the draft scares me to death. Do I think it will happen again? No. But I come from a town where the appeal of serving in the military far outways the appeal of further education such as college. </p>
<p>And just because this war isn't as "bad" or as "serious" as some in the past, doesn't make it alrgiht. If we don't advocate some kind of resolution soon, it could easily become worse.</p>