IU Bloomington: A Student's Perspective

<p>This is long, but I’d like to think it’s worth the read. These are important issues you need to consider before you decide where to go to college.</p>

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<p>As at any college or university, there are good things and bad things. There are students who love the university and students who hate the university and students who don’t care. (Most students here at IU don’t care.) But before you decide to spend at least four years of your life and thousands of dollars on your higher education at IU, you really need to get real answers to some important questions. The admission booklets and promotional things the admissions office send to you look great, but is that what IU is really like? Do the student admissions representatives really love IU or are they just putting on the smile for their resume?</p>

<p>This post is intended to give you a real student’s perspective. I can assure you that most students at this university (student body of ~ 40,000) who have even cared enough about the quality of education they’re getting share my frustrations. I am a senior year here at IU Bloomington (3.9 GPA). I began this semester with more than 120 credit hours, which means I have taken a lot of classes. </p>

<li>Let’s start with what IU is really famous for: parties. Most students live for the parties and drinking. This lifestyle spills over into the quality of work the students produce and the weekdays in general.</li>
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<p>On Monday, everyone is talking about the parties they attended on the weekend (those who are well enough to come to class - some are still hung-over). On Tuesday, everyone is complaining about their classes and the work they have to do. By Wednesday, it’s like, “Just two more days 'til Friday.” By Thursday, many students have started the drinking. It’s called “Thirsty Thursday” here. Attendance is always sparse in classes on Friday. The weekend nights are spent at parties and the weekend days are spent in bed recovering. On Saturday mornings of home football games, students are out on the stadium lawn, completely drunk by 9:30 am. I am not kidding.</p>

<p>When parents send their child to college, they’re thinking, “The university will challenge Johnny’s mind, broaden his horizons, and set him up for a well-paying career.” They shell out thousands of dollars every semester for this experience. Little do they know that pretty much all Johnny lives for is the booze, slipping through his classes with as little work as possible. And guess who is paying for the booze?? The parents. </p>

<p>But if partying is really your thing, look no further than IU.</p>

<li>This university’s administration is primarily concerned with money. Teaching is not at the top of their priority list.</li>
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<p>IU keeps admitting more and more students. More students, more money. Simple. But more students mean that there have to be more classes. Every freshman has to take take English 101 (actually English W131 here), so now we need more teachers for these classes. The university doesn’t want to hire more professors to teach these courses because professors cost more. So what do they do? They accept more graduate students because they can pay the graduate students a fraction of what they would a professor to teach these classes. And this doesn’t just happen for these “general” classes. </p>

<p>The graduate students they hire are barely a few years older than the students they’re teaching. Most have absolutely no experience in teaching, which makes them ineffective teachers. The classroom environment becomes extremely boring. This quenches any fire the students might have for learning the subject. So, to keep students coming to class, part of the grade reflects attendance. This is stupid because students should come to class because they want to learn, not so they can get points. If students don’t want to come class, they either (a) know the material, (b) have work for another class they have to finish up, or (c) don’t care to learn the material, in which case they should not even be in the class. Another huge problem with the graduate students is that they just don’t care. They are teaching because they have to, not because they want to. You wouldn’t be able to tell for some of these graduate students if they want to be there or not because they can barely speak English. I can’t tell you how many graduate student teachers (called Associate Instructors, AIs) I’ve had here who could barely speak English.</p>

<p>It is appalling to see these poor graduate students completely overworked. They have hard classes of their own, they have to prepare for the classes they teach, they have mountains of grading to do… And they get paid usually less than $20,000 to do all this. Graduate students are students too and most have absolutely no business teaching undergraduate classes. The classes are so huge, though, that one professor cannot see to all the students. Thus graduate students become indispensable.</p>

<p>Let me give you my example this semester. I have a relatively light load this semester, physical chemistry, honors literary interpretation, honors organic chemistry laboratory, and spanish III. A professor lectures in Physical Chemistry, and then there is graduate student who teaches the discussion portion of the class once a week who can barely speak English. A graduate student is completely in charge for the literary interpretation class, and the same story goes in the organic lab and spanish III. Graduate students are teaching both of my HONORS classes. One of them, the organic lab, is a 300-level course and is a core class in my major. </p>

<p>Another problem with graduate student teachers is that they are usually the ones who get to know you better, especially in lab classes. So if you wanted to ask one of them to write a letter of recommendation for you, it’s just a waste of time. They are graduate students, so their letter won’t carry near the same weight as a professor’s. </p>

<p>So that’s that about the grad students. </p>

<p>One last thing, though. This year, IU accepted so many students that there wasn’t enough space in the dorms to house them all. There have been kids who were assigned to dorm lounges, two and three to a lounge, with make-shift furniture. That is pretty sad. </p>

<li>Hardly any student here at IU really cares about what they’re learning. This apathy not only plagues IU Bloomington; it can be found in schools all over the country. This is the fault of the professors and of the university’s administration. This university puts such a huge emphasis on research that faculty members are constantly under pressure not only to teach but to produce results in their research or publish papers. [Raises in their salary is very much dependent on their success (or failure) as a researcher - in all fields, not just science. So when push comes to shove, what is more important to a professor: his research or the students he’s teaching?] IU hires professors that will increase the university’s prominence with their research, not necessarily the best teachers. I can count on one hand the number of good professors I’ve had here in my time at IU. Most are mediocre. This mediocrity from the front of the classroom breeds mediocrity and apathy in the students. The students are being dragged along through the classes. It is unbelievable the absolute brainlessness students devote to their studies. They have to write a paper so they “bs” it. This is allowed by the professors, who now have no choice but to teach a class of students most of whom do not care one wink about what he or she might be teaching. Where is the love for learning in the students? And that desire to understand others and communicate it<br></li>
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<p>This is my perspective of IU Bloomington. Sure there are good things, like lots of opportunities for the students who really care to take advantage of them, and my friends, but it has been a constant battle these four years not to lose my own love for learning. Ironic, isn’t it, that the place you come to stimulate your thinking, “broaden your horizons” turns out to be the place that turns learning into a bunch of hoops you have to jump through throughout the week before the next weekend or the next break? It’s thousands of times more sad when you think about all the money you pay the university. </p>

<p>My advice to all you who are considering attending IU Bloomington (or any school) is to really think about what you want out of your education experience. Talk to a lot of students about the university (at any school you’re looking at). The students who work in the admissions office are only going to tell you the good stuff. You need to know the pros and the cons, so ask random students what they like and what they don’t like. You’ll soon get a good perspective of the university - much better than if you were to only read the pamphlets the admissions office sends you with the smiling students on the front cover. You will be at college for the next four years at least (longer, if the university can help it- more tuition money) and you will pay a lot of money for this experience. You wouldn’t want to pay $40,000 for a car that has a bent frame and smashed windows from an accident, would you? You’d want a new car for that price. $40,000 is a lot of money. It’s how much a lot of people pay for their college education (I pay more because I’m out-of-state), so you need to be sure that you’re getting the best deal your money can buy.</p>

<p>Joojoo, I have to admit that most of what you've said was also true when I went to IU 25 years ago. Certainly a drawback of a large university is lack of personal attention; visit the faculty during office hours and most will make it clear they don't have time to talk to undergraduates. I think there were only 2 or 3 professors who knew me by name when I graduated. OTOH, this made me more independent, as I came to realize it would be up to me to get the education I wanted.</p>

<p>Despite the problems you mentioned, I still have fond memories of my time at IU. However, I don't attribute those memories to the faculty or staff...what I remember are the friendships I made with fellow students. While IU is a party school, with more than 20,000 students you're bound to find a few who share your interests, socially and intellectually. Another advantage is the diversity of classes that are available. At a small college, in order to change majors you might have to change schools.</p>

<p>When my son toured the campus and saw evidence of all the drinking the night before, he said with a smile, "so these are the people I'll be competing against for grades?" :-)</p>

<p>Wow. Thank you for helping me cross out one of the colleges on my list.
I was gonna apply to Kelley, but after reading that, I figured that it wouldn't be worth me paying OOS tuition for a party school when there are plenty where I am...</p>

<p>Is it really that bad? I don't party so this is seeming like an awful place...like my current school...</p>

<p>Bear in mind that this is one student's opinion. I wouldn't advise anyone to make a decision about a college based only upon one person's opinion, whether good or bad. These are definitely things to consider, but seek out other opinions, as well.</p>

<p>My son has also told me about all the partying at IU, so yes, that is a problem. However, as Silverweed said, you can find others who are not into partying and have interests similar to your own.</p>

<p>Yes, there are a lot of grad students who teach classes, probably a problem at most big state schools. Some grad students are not too good; however, some are excellent teachers, according to my son.</p>

<p>Also these comments may not apply to every major within the college. I know the Jacobs School of Music is excellent, and my son has very much appreciated the professors he has worked with and the classes he has taken. He has found many opportunities to perform and to hear excellent music. He has also learned that sometimes he has to seek out opportunities, but that many are available to those who learn to take advantage of the resources IU offers.</p>

<p>Most misguiding post I have read on this site. Every big ten school is a party school, period. If you are not into the partying there are over 20,000 people at the University, many of which you will be ale to relate to. IU has a great reputation, not only Kelley, but as an entire institution</p>

<p>Where's A2wolves when you need him hahaha</p>

<p>I'm just finishing up my first semester so I'm clearly not the best person to talk about IU..but I love it here. Yes, the partying is really that bad. Friday classes really are bare. But who cares? You go to class and mind your own business. You're there for YOUR education, right?</p>

<p>I will agree that there are grad students who aren't very good teachers teaching classes. But if you're having troubles, there is a TON of help available to you. Go to academic support centers, review sessions, and office hours. Take advantage of those and you should be fine.</p>

<p>Get into the Honors college. Having at least one small(-er?) class is refreshing. The honors topics course I took this semester had 13 other people... it was nice. My G300 class was only 25 or so as well. Those turned out to be my favorite classes.</p>

<p>Just visit and see what you think for yourself.. I think it's a great place for learning.</p>

<p>"Also these comments may not apply to every major within the college. "
I agree these comments do not apply to the Music school or to the Journalism school. If you're considering other majors I would seriously suggest that you sit in on an introductory level class. The campus is beautiful and you will certainly have fun, but will you really get an education?
IU alum</p>

<p>A school that offers over 5,000 classes per semester will have some classes that are good and some that are bad. Same with professors, same with graduate students--same apparently with posters.</p>

<p>Interesting that this individual has made exactly 1 post in the approximately 3 1/2 years on this site--and that is should be a condemnation of the school that she supposedly is getting a 3.9 GPA at.</p>

<p>Are we to believe this individual couldn't find any positive points to make about the school at all?</p>

<p>As far as some of the comments--my son finds the situation appalling that some students drink the way they do and don't care about their education. On the other hand, 83% of those who go to IU do compete and do care and do graduate--and it is not all that easy to get top grades, despite the comments made by this poster. I've seen the assignments, and I've seen the tests. People who are drunk all the time will not be passing these classes.</p>

<p>I half wonder if this isn't someone from a competing school who didn't get in to Indiana and wants to just trash the school however possible (typical internet ploy, I might add). </p>

<p>Look, all schools are what you make them--same for companies where you work--and for the friendships and goals you choose to work towards. If this individual can't find anything positive, then that doesn't say much for her--it speaks very little to the school's situation itself. My son has had teachers that are terrible--both graduate students and regular professors. But he has also had wonderful challenging professors (his public speaking and western intellectual thought and finite math professors all spring to mind here). Yes, there are problems--I've noted some myself in posts on here--but to point out flaws and be critical is the easiest thing in the world.</p>

<p>I find the post to tell me nothing of substance--and comment number #3 in particular to reflect more on the poster than on the school. To say that all students (40,000 of them) care about nothing but partying is a total crock. I suggest everyone take the comments in the same vein as anything posted on the internet--with a bit of cynicism.</p>

<p>joojoo,</p>

<p>I have to wonder, if you were so dissatisfied with IU, why didn't you transfer?</p>

<p>For the record, Thirsty Thursdays have been around for at least 30 years, probably longer. And not just at large universities. I attended a small LAC and it was alive and well in the 70's. Excessive drinking is a problem on most campuses, not just at IU.</p>

<p>Also, every large university will utilize TA's. Medium size colleges too. While their use can be less than optimal, especially in the case of non-English speakers, some are better than the professors they are working under. My son, who just finished his first semester, did not have a single TA to deal with.</p>

<p>Finally, to say that no one on campus cares about learning is ridiculous. In fact, it is insulting to those many students who do care. Are some kids just taking up space? Sure, but it is their own future they are wasting. My son has taken advantage of numerous opportunities to "broaden his horizons", none of which involved drinking. IU has so much to offer those who are willing to take advantage of the opportunities available. </p>

<p>Perhaps, now that you are facing graduation, you are regretting not taking more advantage of those opportunities. No matter where you go to school, your experience is what you make of it. For my OOS son, IU is a great fit and value.</p>

<p>Thanks to Calcruzer and IllinoisMom2006 for providing some balance to this discussion. My daughter is just finishing her first semester and seems to have enjoyed it tremendously and has definitely broadened her horizons. She is a high achiever who was also accepted at a couple of elite privates but chose Indiana instead for a variety of reasons. She is not regretting her choice (at least as far as I know!)</p>

<p>I want to thank the OP for sharing his/ her views. This was one of the most well-written threads I've read on CC so I doubt that he or she wrote it out of spite for a rejection. Indiana made Princeton Review's list of "happiest students." I assumed this was a good thing, but maybe people do need to dig a little deeper into the reasons.</p>

<p>Sounds like someone has an axe to grind.</p>

<p>I don't understand the backlash, a lot of what the OP is saying I can confirm (as a current student). </p>

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<li><p>The school is all about partying. It's just a flat out drinking school. If you don't drink, it will be hard to socialize. Everything revolves around drinking. Kids would rather drink than go to the football games, something that is pretty pathetic especially considering the success of the team this year. </p></li>
<li><p>There are a ton of grad students teaching lower classes. Even in my 300-400 level classes, they are taught by Doctoral students. I have never had a professor teach a class that is under 300 students. If you have a lower level class that is under 300 students, it is taught by a grad student. If it is an upper level class under 300 students, it is taught by a doctoral student.</p></li>
<li><p>The students here are really underwhelming. It's annoying, I had a kid in one of my classes who thought Chicago was a state, another who couldn't answer what he thought about a picture (literally, a picture was put on the board, and the professor asked "what do you think", and he said uhhhh for a minute). </p></li>
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<p>I don't feel as if the university is weeding them out either, I have been very irritated with the lack of academic challenge that is presented to the students. I took 3 400 level classes this semester, and students complain when they are asked to do a project rather than take on the challenge.

[quote]
Indiana made Princeton Review's list of "happiest students." I assumed this was a good thing, but maybe people do need to dig a little deeper into the reasons.

[/quote]

I think that the average student is happy here. If you are someone who wants to party, wants to get a good degree, and don't have great test scores, IU is a great school.</p>

<p>However, the students on this website for the most part do not fit that mold. These are all high achievers on this website, attracted to the school because of their scholarships and highly ranked programs. For a student who isn't average for IU, who does fit in the top 10-25% of the student body, it may not be the experience they are looking for.</p>

<p>I'm home for winter break. I won't say that this was an easy semester (and I still have A-100 in January) but my overall impression of IU is good. I got into Kelley DA/Honors by the numbers last year. With the exception of the one Honors class I took, the class sizes were big. I found the grad students to be easy to talk with and very available to help. I was able to get one on one office hour time from 3 profs. </p>

<p>I 'm 900 miles away from campus right now and I have every intention of going back. Football, Basketball, Kelley. That's why I came here. The dorms are noisy, stink like mold and there are a lot of drunks. Don't fool yourself with the Wellness LC. There were ambulances there starting during orienentation week. Its easy to find friends that didn't want to get drunk. If you find a friend that wants to get drunk wait a week. Most of my friends found the novelty of being puke sick got old fast.</p>

<p>Would I trade in IU in for the small Liberal Arts school? NO. </p>

<p>A2Wolves: you saved my scholarship with your post about the grade curve in Honors classes. Thanks.</p>

<p>Let me clarify my original remarks:</p>

<p>(1) Like A2Wolves points out, there is a lot of drinking going on--I'm not denying that. What I am denying is that it somehow is unique to IUB. Go to the college campuses at Penn State, Wisconsin, West Virginia, or Mississippi and you'll think that Indiana is a "dry" school by comparison. In many of those states, the drinking age was 18 or 19 prior to the "nationalization" of the drinking age at 21. I remember one year that Playboy (who used to rate the "party schools") refused to include Wisconsin at Madison or West Virginia at Morgantown in the "amateur" ratings since they claimed they should both be considered "professional" party schools instead. Also, drinking levels are relative--and to imply that it is half the school or more that is drunk all the time is definitely an exaggeration. </p>

<p>(2) "Publish or perish" has been the slogan at most universities nationwide for over 50 years. A friend of mine went to Caltech and claimed that he never even met a single "regular" professor until his senior year--and he mainly went there because of all their Nobel Prize winners. To complain that too many TAs (teaching assistants) teach classes is valid, but also typical for most colleges. Princeton Review puts out statistics on this for all the schools--and I should point out that Indiana University uses far fewer TAs to teach classes than such "image" schools as UC Berkeley or New York University do.</p>

<p>(3) The average GPA at Indiana is approximately 2.9 to 3.1 (depending on major). To say that everyone drinks is the equivalent of saying that these people are all capable of "B" averages while drunk--something I don't believe. I have a lot more faith in youarenumber6's comment about how people quickly realize that drinking and puking daily will not get them far in college than I do in joojoojelly's comments on this. </p>

<p>(4) I do believe A2Wolves6's comments about student's capabilities. My son says that the number one problem at Indiana in his view is that many students don't know how to properly express their opinions on a subject--sometimes because they don't have an opinion--but more often because they lack the ability to communicate or write well. This is something that appears to be a continuing problem even when public speaking and business communication classes and english composition classes are all required subjects (as they are for business majors). The school is obviously trying to do their best--like I said these classes are requirements--but in this area, students need to make the effort. Once again, I don't know why this would be a major surprise, though. For the past 15 years, employers have stated that this is the biggest weaknesses they see in graduating college students--and not just from Indiana.</p>

<p>It is for this reason that I said I find nothing special in the OP's comments--not because the criticisms are untrue--but rather because they could just as easily be applied to at least one-third of the colleges across the country. To specifically blame IUB for problems faced by all colleges (and students) seems unjustified--and unfair.</p>

<p>No problem, the grade distribution is great!</p>

<p>Good post Calcruzer, agree with a lot of it.</p>

<p>wow i had high hopes from IU.
partying till a limit is fine. but, i really hate places where parties are the foremost priority. attracts lot of irritating people.
but i am guessing by looking at all the ranks and its reputation, theres more than just frat parties.
besides kelley is highly ranked for many of its programs.</p>

<p>thanks for the views guys.</p>

<p>I personally just joined this site, and actually came to it by way of hearing that some students are going to be living in lounges, which I was a little shocked by.</p>

<p>I agree that there can be bad parts of schools, but there are also a lot of excellent things about IUB. While drinking and partying is a problem, that doesn't mean that each & every student participates. And, as others pointed out, this is an issue at most colleges & universities. And yes, there are students that DON'T care about their education or grades. But just because some students are that way, doesn't mean the entire school is.</p>

<p>There are lots of good qualities about IUB, and there are negatives also, I'm not denying that. But I don't think anyone should base their college decision, future, and countless dollars on ONE negative opinion of a school. Research and visit for yourself, THEN make a decision.</p>