<p>Not at all, Zippy. RICE is a wonderful university with a biology department that is unbelievable. People who respect others views never need to be patronizing. (I have a cousin in Flower Mound, Texas. Yes, it is a great big country, get out and see it, you learn alot!)</p>
<p>Go back and look at last year's Newsweek "new ivies". They chose 25 schools that were just as good as ivies that do not belong to the athletic conference that formed in the 1950's called the ivy league.</p>
<p>It was a nice mix of public and private, LACs and universities, secular and religious, big and small. They are:</p>
<p>Boston College
Bowdoin
Carnegie Mellon
Harvey Mudd/Pomona
Colby
Davidson
Emory
Kenyon
Macalester
U of Michigan
NYU
U of North Carolina
U of Notre Dame
Olin
Reed
RPI
Rice
U of Rochester
Skidmore
Tufts
UCLA
Vanderbilt
U of Virginia
Washington U in St. L</p>
<p>fodder for discussion, to be sure</p>
<p>Not your post on Rice, the other one about me and the "CA crew"</p>
<p>In honesty, in quality of students, that list has 2-3 with "Ivy League" students' credentials. Where, btw, are Stanford and Duke and MIT and Chicago and Johns Hopkins and Georgetown? And I am certain Princeton is worried about losing the cross-admit battle with Skidmore and RPI, and Yale is sweating it out with Macalester. Are these supposed to be the next best schools, or parallel schools? And is it damning with faint praise to toss in Rice and Vanderbilt and UCLA while leaving out the aforementioned closer competitors. This, of course, does not recognize the differences in top level research output between Cornell and, let's say, Colby. </p>
<p>Come on, all this shows (in what I agree is a list of fine schools, but woefully incomplete and biased) how they are not the eight schools in the one conference which happen to share and mutually enhance their academic missions while meeting on the playing fields.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Where, btw, are Stanford and Duke and MIT and Chicago and Johns Hopkins and Georgetown?
[/quote]
The article expressly states that those schools were not included because they're as well known as the Ivies. </p>
<p>You could call it a classic case of supply meeting demand. A generation ago, elite schools were a clearly defined group: the eight schools in the Ivy League, along with such academic powerhouses as Stanford, the University of Chicago, MIT and Caltech. Smaller liberal-arts colleges—like Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, Swarthmore and Wesleyan—were the destinations of choice for top students who preferred a more intimate campus...</p>
<p>Thanks for giving a bit more clarity to that one warblersule86.</p>
<p>'Public Ivy' is a term first used by American author Richard Moll to mean a public institution that provide(s) an Ivy League collegiate experience at a public school price. </p>
<p>How do you guys feel about these institutions listed below being called 'public Ivy's'? (also see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ivy%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ivy</a>)</p>
<p>The original list of the eight Public Ivies according to Moll (1985):
- College of William and Mary (Virginia)
- Miami University at Oxford (Ohio)
- University of California system (California)
- University of Michigan (Michigan)
- University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (North Carolina)
- University of Texas at Austin (Texas)
- University of Vermont (Vermont)
- University of Virginia (Virginia) </p>
<p>A later book titled 'The Public Ivies: America's Flagship Public Universities' (2001) by Howard and Matthew Greene expanded upon the list in the first book to include 30 colleges and universities. That book listed the following as Public Ivies:
- Binghamton University
- College of William and Mary
- Indiana University Bloomington
- Miami University
- Michigan State University
- Ohio State University (Columbus)
- Pennsylvania State University (University Park)
- Rutgers University
- University of Arizona
- University of California, Berkeley
- University of California, Davis
- University of California, Irvine
- University of California, Los Angeles
- University of California, San Diego
- University of California, Santa Barbara
- University of Colorado at Boulder
- University of Connecticut
- University of Delaware
- University of Florida
- University of Georgia
- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
- University of Iowa
- University of Maryland College Park
- University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
- University of Minnesota, Twin Cities
- University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
- University of Texas at Austin
- University of Virginia
- University of Washington
- University of Wisconsin-Madison</p>
<p>I am really curious what you guys think about these Universities being referred to as 'Public Ivy's'? Do these public institutions really provide (something close to) 'an Ivy League collegiate experience', according to you? I'm considering to go to the UW next year as an exchange student, so should I be 'extra excited' since it is considered by some as a 'Public Ivy'? Or is this all just nonsense?</p>
<p>^ The schools you have listed are all excellent public universities. </p>
<p>In your post, when you state UW you are referring to University of Washington (from previous posts). U Washington is a great school. You should be excited that you are attending an upper echelon public university, in a beautiful setting. </p>
<p>The college experience is what you make of it. You can have great experiences at an Ivy League school or a bigger public university, such as UW. On these CC boards, a lot of posters will say an Ivy League education is better because of the smaller classes, more personalized attention, prestige of the degree, and elite alumni networks. </p>
<p>UW will provide you a great education (you're only here a short time), and will give you some other things to experience...such as Division 1 Pac-10 sports, the city of Seattle, skiing at Whistler, BC...etc.</p>
<p>The list is way too long. Only MIT, Stanford, CalTech, Northwestern, WashU and possibly JHU/Rice deserve to be in this list.</p>
<p>^ OK, so in your world, public universities don't offer much.</p>
<p>There are top schools in every region of the country and many of them are equal or superior to one or more of the colleges that play sports in the Ivy League. The reality is that HYP have the strongest national reputations along with Stanford, MIT and possibly Duke. After that, there is a group of about 15 private national universities that have great overlap in undergraduate student quality and about 6-7 public universities that also have some degree of overlap. </p>
<p>For students looking for good students and academic quality, here is a good geographic breakdown of top national universities:</p>
<p>The privates are:</p>
<p>WEST-Caltech, USC</p>
<p>SOUTHWEST-Rice</p>
<p>MIDWEST-Northwestern, Wash U, U Chicago, and Notre Dame</p>
<p>SOUTHEAST-Vanderbilt, Emory and Wake Forest</p>
<p>MID ATLANTIC- Georgetown and Johns Hopkins</p>
<p>NORTHEAST-Dartmouth, Columbia, U Penn, Brown, Tufts and Cornell</p>
<p>The publics are:</p>
<p>WEST-UC Berkeley and UCLA
MIDWEST-U Michigan and U Wisconsin
SOUTHEAST-U Virginia, U North Carolina, and W&M</p>
<p>In addition, there would some considerable overlap in student quality and applications among the LACs and the Ivy League colleges. A good list would include the following:</p>
<p>WEST-Pomona, Claremont McKenna, Harvey Mudd</p>
<p>MIDWEST-Carleton, Grinnell</p>
<p>SOUTHEAST-Davidson, W&L</p>
<p>MID ATLANTIC-Swarthmore, Haverford, Bryn Mawr</p>
<p>NORTHEAST-Williams, Amherst, Wellesley, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Wesleyan, Vassar, Colgate, Hamilton, Smith, Colby</p>
<p>It always stumps me why Penn always deals with a marble ceiling and a plywood floor in terms of their reputation compared to other top-notch schools (I mean it's hard for them to move up, but easy to move down). I agree about the reputations of HYP, but reps are always changing and over time, some reps can overtake others. I'm speaking purely from what I see. USNWR, while clearly not the "college bible," is most people's main source, right up until Penn or another perceived "lower tier Ivy" benefits from it. </p>
<p>Basically, why are the USNWR top five college ranking mostly agreed upon, except in the case of Penn?</p>
<p>because Penn, Duke and WashU are most frequently accused of playing the rankings game and manipulating their data/classes/whatever to match the criteria looked at by USNWR.</p>
<p>Well, I can't say I knew about WSTL being there over the years, but Duke is Duke and Penn is an Ivy. Basically the name speaks for itself. In my view, regardless of USNWR rankings, they've always been on top. Especially years ago when Barron's guides were the equivalent of what USNWR is now and they rated on the "competitive scale." Penn was always "most competitive," along with its Ivy bretheren and Duke was "highly competitive."</p>
<p>
[quote]
The reality is that HYP have the strongest national reputations along with Stanford, MIT and possibly Duke.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>hawk - I really don't think Duke's national rep is any better than the other Ivies (and some here would argue that it isn't as good).</p>
<p>
[quote]
some here would argue that it isn't as good
[/quote]
Some would be wrong. :)</p>
<p>I agree that Duke doesn't have a stronger reputation than the others. I think more people have heard of Duke than some of the Ivies, mostly because of athletics and the lacrosse incident, but people that have heard of both BCCDP and Duke would say they're on equal footing.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but people that have heard of both BCCDP and Duke would say they're on equal footing.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think most people would tend to agree that Duke is on par with these schools. However:</p>
<p>
[quote]
The reality is that HYP have the strongest national reputations along with Stanford, MIT and possibly Duke.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The suggestion that Duke belongs in the "HYPSM" group is a bit of a stretch.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The suggestion that Duke belongs in the "HYPSM" group is a bit of a stretch.
[/quote]
The top schools are CHYMPS. I suppose if you wanted to get really picky you could cut it down to SYPH.</p>
<p>Although Duke has a Lemur Center, I don't think it considers itself a CHYMP. I really don't think it wants to contact SYPH. That's why Duke is better on its own. :)</p>