<p>huh? Not my post. It was LaxChamp's thread about Asians.</p>
<p>calicartel, I agree 100%. But the fact is, the original poster's list is reasonable. Our country has grown, in all ways, since HYP. (California was not a state yet, no Stanford, sorry :)) All I am trying to say, is that it is time to let others (schools) at least have a bite at the table of educational plenty.</p>
<p>I would think "Ivies outside the Ivies" would mean student bodies with comparable stats/accomplishments as students in the Ivies. Schools like UChicago, Tufts, Georgetown certainly fall into that category.</p>
<p>whole notion is silly. Once again, many fine non-Ivy schools; many better than many Ivies in many areas. NB: Ivy, folks, is an athletic conference. It reminds me of everyone rushing to say their house is "just as nice" as one in Berverly Hills, whether it abuts the suburb or is a continent away. Neither argument predicated on propinquity is valid. The quality may exist, or it may not, but it's in Beverly Hills or it's not. Too much opportunity for grandstanding and too much little honesty and analysis. Armani does not make Versace and neither does Calvin Klein. Heck, I wear Gap pants with Armani sport coats. No allusions as to respective quality but I like them both. Kinda of laughable for Gap to bootstrap itself into a virtuoso of Italian design. It's not. It's good in its own way. To say otherwise, or surreptitiously attempt to cloak itself under the same trademark is false, and it's tawdry. Don't do it.</p>
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I haven't even heard of Wake Forest......
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Oh, you've probably heard of it (for sports, even if nothing else). It's the school that has produced 11 Rhodes Scholars in the last 20 years compared to Berkeley's 2 even though Berkeley is 5.5x larger and has many more 1500+ (out of 1600) scorers. :)</p>
<p>That does make for an awfully long application list. More generally, I think it is better for the applicant to spend the most time looking for a really, truly safe "safety" college (a sure bet for admission) that has a strong academic program and is affordable for that applicant. Once the base is secure, then build up to the reaches on any basis of preference you like.</p>
<p>Georgetown is also known for the International Relations, not just law. Just wanted to point that out. SFS is very prestigious, even good ol Bill went there I believe =P</p>
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The only State Us that have the "needed factors" to compete with the elite private schools are Berkeley, Michigan and UVa
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<p>Interesting. Which "needed factors" is it that only Berkeley, Michigan, and UVa have?</p>
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Oh, you've probably heard of it (for sports, even if nothing else). It's the school that has produced 11 Rhodes Scholars in the last 20 years compared to Berkeley's 2 even though Berkeley is 5.5x larger and has many more 1500+ (out of 1600) scorers.
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</p>
<p>No, I think I know what I've heard of better than you know what I've heard of. :) I'm not a fan of college sports and what does studying at Oxford post-grad have to do with anything? Instead, let's compare how many have studied at top-notch grad programs in America & internationally (percentage wise or not)...</p>
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Oh, you've probably heard of it (for sports, even if nothing else).
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</p>
<p>I've heard of it alright. Although hearing about its sports programs and respecting it are two different matters ;) And no, the combination of one (some would argue fluke) appearance in the Orange Bowl (where they lost) and continuous underwhelming seasons in basketball don't exactly strike fear into the hearts of other rival schools. Now the other two schools in NC on the other hand...</p>
<p>To the OP's point, a pretty fair list would be CC's own list of Top Universities:</p>
<p>Sorry to revive this guys, but the New York Times made me do it!! To Zippy and the CA crew- Check out the New York Times (Do you guys get that paper all the way over on the left coast? :)) Education section- MIDDLEBURY COLLEGE all over the place, a student profiled in magazine, along with "GASP" Princeton and anyone ever heard of DAVIDSON? Then, just for kicks, check out the Sunday Styles. I just glanced at it, but two people mentioned graduated from MIDDLEBURY. SO, if you have never heard of MIDDLEBURY, get yoor copy of the NYT, available online: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com%5B/url%5D">www.nytimes.com</a>, and start reading. If you feel knowledgable enough to give advice,but have never heard of Middlebury, an amazing school for International Relations, then at least be informed. (Maybe take a course or two there and learn just how big this world is!) Thanks.</p>
<p>Georgetown overrated?? C'mon guys, that's ridiculous. There are obviously some Georgetown haters on this thread and I have no reason to back them up other than them being a wonderful academic institution that, outside of the ivies, is one of the more respected schools in the country, ala Duke, Stanford, Northwestern.... </p>
<p>Doesn't their reputation precede them?</p>
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<p>njmom, perhaps you should educate yourself with regard to the major west coast universities too.</p>
<p>I was trying to make a point with a little reverse thinking- sorry you did not get it, I was being humorous! Lighten up, you guys are very serious out there! I know (and even if I did not it would not matter. I am an average person. Academic circles DO know schools, and that includes others that I mentioned) how great Stanford, Berkley and UCLA are.(I even know how wonderful Harvey Mudd is :))</p>
<p>Amazing how nationally televised sports influences recognition in academics. No one here in the Old Dominion would ever academically list UVa without W&M in the same category. Actually, W&M is tougher to get in to and is much less of a party school; it's one of those oft forgotten gems outside of the state.</p>
<p>Thank you, njmom, for that link.</p>
<p>sewbusy- are you kidding? I do not know a person who does not hold William and Mary in the highest regard! The highest academics since 1693! Most students in my area of N.J. know you have to be really academic to even consider it. Considering it is a public, their SAT range (average 1340) tells us that you have some pretty bright students in old Virginia!</p>
<p>Your Welcome, redcrimblue! And lets hear a cheer for another great university - RICE! You are lucky to claim it!</p>
<p>Sounds a bit patronizing...</p>