Ivies Outside of the Ivies

<p>The following is a list of schools that I feel everyone applying to an Ivy should also apply to, as these are schools with an overall caliber equal to that of the Ivies: </p>

<p>Well-Known Ivies Outside of the Ivies (i.e. Public Universities)</p>

<p>-Stanford University
-MIT
-Caltech
-University of Chicago
-Northwestern
-Duke
-Wash. U.
-Carnegie Mellon University
-Johns Hopkins University
-Rice University
-Emory University
-Vanderbilt University
-UC-Berkeley
-University of Notre Dame
-Georgetown University
-UCLA
-UMich
-USC
-UNC-Chapel Hill
-Tufts University
-Wake Forest University</p>

<p>The Classic "Little Three" Ivies</p>

<p>-Amherst
-Williams
-Wesleyan
(A.K.A. AWW, isn't that cute?) </p>

<p>There are others, including Swarthmore, Middlebury, and Pomona, but I think that you can figure out the rest for yourself, if you're curious.</p>

<p>Of the universities on your list, only four are public, if I count right. But they are fine unis, arguably as good as the Ivies.</p>

<p>I think it would've been faster to say USNWR top 30 except UVA (which I assume was left out accidentally). :p</p>

<p>All of them deserve to be on the list. Only HYPS, Brown, and USMA have produced more Rhodes Scholars than UNC or UVA, for instance.</p>

<p>I disagree ultracali. The schools you think shouldn't beon that list are top schools with top students.</p>

<p>Ditto, Lollabelle. Everyone of those schools attracts top students. Since the list is of "well-known" schools, if I were to take off one school, it would be Stanford or Berkeley. Those California schools are so confusing to some eastcoasters, they all "molt into one." But there is only one Georgetown! Have fun with this, guys!!! (LOL!!!) :)</p>

<p>
[quote]
I think your list is just too long.
-Georgetown University
-UCLA
-USC
-UNC-Chapel Hill
-Tufts University
-Wake Forest University
-Carnegie Mellon University
shouldn't be in that list.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Sorry - if Berkeley and Michigan are on that list, you can bet that UCLA is also right up there with them. UVA is also missing.</p>

<p>
[quote]
But there is only one Georgetown! Have fun with this, guys!!! (LOL!!!)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Georgetown? Hmm... I think I've heard of that school. Isn't that the one that's vastly overrated with a decent law school as its only saving grace? If so, I'm familiar with it. If people think Georgetown is better known (or is a better overall institution than Stanford), well, they probably aren't the types of people that are in a position to offer jobs that grads from either institutions would want.
Enjoy that, ma! ;)</p>

<p>calicartel, you passed the test! Congratulations!! Your answer is the exact point I am trying to make: it is a big country. Being 30 minutes from the heart of NYC, I have a slight idea that Georgetown is a pretty respectable university. And if you really want some food for thought, for business, not only is VILLANOVA big (ever heard of that one? No, it is not ice cream!) but also, the University of Scranton. (WHERE is that? go ahead, scratch your head!! :)) Why can't people get it through there brand name heads that this is a huge country, and while, yes, Stanford is well known, in this neck of the woods Villanova is quite respectable, and more than enough to get you where you want to go, if you have the drive. (and know what a cheese steak sandwitch is! :))
p.s. please don't throw a bunch of "stats" my way, that is so old school!</p>

<p>By the way, calicartel, I too think Georgetown is overrated, but that is just my personal opinion. Who am I to say it is not a "Little Ivy?" Plenty of people believe it is. Thanks.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Georgetown? Hmm... I think I've heard of that school. Isn't that the one that's vastly overrated with a decent law school as its only saving grace? If so, I'm familiar with it. If people think Georgetown is better known (or is a better overall institution than Stanford), well, they probably aren't the types of people that are in a position to offer jobs that grads from either institutions would want.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I agree. Georgetown is strictly known for its really good Law School. </p>

<p>Personal opinion: I'd put UVA on there and take off USC, Tufts, Wake Forest, and UNC. (I haven't even heard of Wake Forest......) I'm iffy on Georgetown as I haven't heard anything about its other subjects.</p>

<p>No comment, I will not take the bait! :)</p>

<p>As a Berkeley student, I'm flattered that East Coasters confuse Berkeley and Stanford, considering Stanford is on par with Harvard in all respects.</p>

<p>On the graduate level, Berkeley and Stanford dominate in all respects. They are the two universities with the highest percentage of "top 10" graduate program rankings. Berkeley has 100% of its graduate programs in the top 10 while Stanford has 98% of its programs in the top 10. They are the two powerhouses for graduate degrees in the world, and internationally speaking they are extremely well known because of their prestigious graduate programs and research output. </p>

<p>Undergraduate- wise, Stanford trumps all of these schools on this list except for maybe MIT and Caltech for certain majors.
In addition, on the undergraduate level Stanford trumps most of the Ivies themselves, including Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, etc. Stanford--on the undergrad level--is on par with HYP.</p>

<p>Only comment: If you have never heard of Middlebury, Zippy,you should not be giving anyone advice on this board! :)
(that is the problem with CC: for all of who come here for advice, you must be careful who you are listening to!</p>

<p>Uh...I'm not giving anyone advice. I'm merely stating statistical facts.</p>

<p>Only Stanford and MIT should be added to the list- Cal Tech is too small to be added.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Why can't people get it through there brand name heads that this is a huge country, and while, yes, Stanford is well known, in this neck of the woods Villanova is quite respectable, and more than enough to get you where you want to go, if you have the drive.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I suppose that's exactly what I'm trying to get at. It <em>is</em> a big country and there are a lot of schools. Because of the geography, it's understandable that people are more inclined to place schools they're familiar with (read: schools in the area) above schools they've never heard of. But that doesn't mean that those perceptions are correct. For example, many years back there was a study done on perceptions of prestige of overall universities. A survey was conducted region by region, asking random people to list what they though the top five to ten schools were. Yes, a few of the usual suspects (Harvard, Yale, Princeton) were in most of the lists and yes, there were some obvious regional biases (that Cal and UCLA popped up on the West Coast) -- but none more blatant or out of place than the study in the Pennsylvania area which placed Penn State at #2, second only to Harvard. Yes, Penn State!!!<br>
So many people talk about the availability of quality schools across the United States outside of the normal "top 10/20/50/whatever" that can provide a solid education. This is true. However, for some reason (whether for ego, career aspirations, etc.), sometimes, regional respectability isn't enough. That's where it can be useful to compare against schools from other areas to see how they stack up. This is precisely where regional biases and reputations must be eliminated in an effort to standardize the metrics, if you will.</p>

<p>Did they confuse Penn State with U Penn? </p>

<p>People do that often. My stepdad's family (who are New Yorkers) think Penn State=U Penn. Basically anything with "Penn" in it means Penn State.</p>

<p>I don't think they did -- and if they did, that brings a regional-centric ignorance to a whole new level.</p>

<p>As an aside, what's this I hear about your semi-controversial post about the number of Asians within the student body at Cal and UCLA?</p>

<p>Yeah, I think it happens often on the East Coast, although in this instance they were probably referring to Penn State. I guess it's somewhat understandable because it's a really big school.</p>

<p>My stepdad doesn't know the difference still despite that he lived on the East Coast for most of his life. He kept telling me his niece went to "U Penn," then "Penn State."</p>