ivies

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I may be the only one on here to think this after the posts I have been witnessing, but I honestly do not get what makes the ivies so sought after... WHY ivy league. That is my question. I was discussing with my mom that the kids on this forum were just so concerned with getting into HYP(SM? I believe those are the last two letters), and the fact that there is an acronym for these schools just confirms that you do not care about the schools themselves... just the actual name of the school because you just want to get into any one of them. This is a generalization but I do believe it to be true for most of you on this forum who are striving for schools included in that acronym. I actually find it funny, and not to mention sad. Anyone else agree? </p>

<p>Also BTW, all of you applying to 10+ schools are creating the intense and absurd competition that top schools are notorious for. YOU are the cause for this neurotic and ridiculous system that has been warped into a savage process. I wish everyone would only apply to schools they ACTUALLY wanted to go to for the schools sake and not for name sake. And also there should be a federal limit on how many schools students apply to, I am not even kidding (obviously international students would be exempt from this...seeing as it is federal). This is just going to get worse... sadly.</p>

<p>So all you neurotic seniors (and freshman, sophomores, and juniors who waste away your time reading these posts and tearing out your hair) out there, who do everything just to get into college, I feel upset for you. Live, laugh, and love once in a while... college isn't everything. Go somewhere you love, and i guarantee you that may not include an ivy.</p>

2

<p>Agreeing with OP, personally I like Columbia for what it is (and where it is, and the earth science research institutions attached to it... all good reasons to want to go somewhere.) and not it's name, but it's the only ivy I'm seriously applying to (applying to Yale EA because my mom will kill me if I don't, but I don't think I'll go even if I get in)</p>

<p>I'm only applying to six schools (Columbia, Bowdoin, Williams, Yale, Colby, UMD - College Park, in order of preference)</p>

<p>I've read plenty of books/articles about how the Ivies are actually extremely lacking as undergrad institutions and are almost all (especially Harvard, Princeton, Yale) focused on research and grad school. My mom won't listen to me when I try to explain this though, and I think parents are part of the Ivy craze problem... my friend is also only applying to Harvard because his mother told him to.</p>

3

<p>I would say I agree with you... but then again, I'm probably going to be applying to two of them. the only ivy I'm actually interested in is brown, but my parents want me to apply to yale too for financial aid reasons, which is really annoying to me because I don't particularly want to go to yale and I know there are thousands who do.</p>

4

<p>I'd disagree with ironmetal that all Ivies are grad-oriented: Dartmouth, Brown, and Princeton are clearly undergrad-oriented, as undergrads far outnumbers grads at each of these schools.</p>

5

<p>Cornell is also very undergrad oriented with 70% undergrad. The Ivies are great schools and Stanford MIT and Caltech are good too. There are lots of other good schools but the Ivies are special.</p>

6

<p>In response to collegehelp, what makes them so special? I have to say that for those of you who are applying to the Ivy Leagues for the right reason (i.e. they have a particular program that is perfect for your intended course of study) then I do think it is agreeable that you apply to that school. But, I have witnessed especially at my school that there are people applying to ALL of the ivy leagues, even those that do not have their desired course of study. For example, I know a girl who wants to be a business major but at certain schools like MIT, they are applying as an engineer because it may help her get accepted, but is applying to Wharton as well... and then to all of the other Ivies that are Liberal Arts and not even offer engineering OR business. It just seems so incredibly twisted and superficial to me... </p>

<p>And what bothers me even more is when people apply to schools just to apply that are not ivies but are still top-tier schools like Georgetown, UChicago, Amherst, etc. JUST for the sake of applying... but they don't actually really want to go there. Those schools are huge reaches for some people (just because of test scores -- which i could go on for hours about how much detest them, or they don't have the means to start their own business or do some incredible research --- these opportunities are NOT available to all people!!) and when people apply to these schools JUST to do it and add to the applicant pool and then take the spot away from somebody who actually does want to go there. I don't know, it is all just so aggravating in my eyes... I think it's just that I know I am just as qualified and an even better person than all these people applying to these schools, yet the adcoms view these students who are obssessed and just start all these clubs and study for the sats for years in advance just to simply get into a top college as more valuable? I am far more ambitious and far more realistic and far better a person but my test scores for instance will hold me back.</p>

<p>Please excuse my rant, it has just been bothering me immensely.</p>

7

<p>Yeah, there's too much focus on name brand in the college search. Perhaps, if the title of "Ivy League" was eliminated (it was initially a football organization, nothing with any meaning today) and colleges weren't constantly ranked, less of this unreasonable cutthroat competition would exist. Sure, there could still be lists for each major to help dedicated students pick the right program, but overall? Simply to make money.
I almost feel like those who don't want to bother researching similar colleges just apply to all eight Ivies... because an Ivy couldn't POSSIBLY be a bad fit, right?!? I mean, it has a NAME!!!
<em>End rant</em></p>

8

<p>"I am far more ambitious and far more realistic and far better a person but my test scores for instance will hold me back."</p>

<p>Could you be any more humble?</p>

9

<p>Being humble doesn't much have to do with this. I am not a stuck-up person at all and just by that one statement it does not mean that I am not a humble person. That statement was merely intended to demonstrate my frustration with the fact that the REAL student gets lost in the numbers, the extracurriculars, the application. That statement was inteded to demonstrate my frustration with the fact that many students may seem to demonstrate a 'passion' in the innumerable activities they do so that they can seem like a wholistic applicant who is well-rounded and 'passionate' for the sole reason that they want to get into an ivy league university. They do not much look past the point of college for if they did, they would realize that not attending an ivy league would still most likely bring them to the acheive their ambitions but they do not have much other ambition other than getting into the HYPSM or whatever else. This is a generalization.</p>

10

<p>I thought Yale was pretty focused on undergrads as well ?</p>

11

<p>There are many excellent colleges, a number of which have teaching, mentoring, and educational quality that rival the Ivies. For any college, name recognition and prestige do not necessarily equate with academic excellence. Academic excellence has to do with an institution’s quality of teaching, availability of good mentoring and advising, accessibility and availability of professors, whether or not education is a top priority of the institution, etc.</p>

<p>What's most important is the right match for you. Some things to think about: What is the quality of the education? Do the faculty value teaching? Are faculty rewarded for teaching quality or mainly for their research? Are students taught mostly by TAs? Do graduate students have first priority, or does a true commitment to undergraduates exist?</p>

<p>Think about who will advise and mentor you.
[quote]
From the article listed below: "Quality advising at Harvard, especially during freshman year, is mostly a matter of random chance. Unless lucky enough to be assigned to a knowledgeable and interested professor or a proctor who happens to be a Harvard College graduate, first-years are stuck with advisers—from professional school administrators to first-year graduate student proctors—who know little about the Harvard system."

[/quote]
The</a> Harvard Crimson :: Opinion :: Re-Focus Advising</p>

<p>Remember:
1. You don’t need to get into the ivy league to be successful in life.
2. The college/university you graduate from does not determine who you are and your contributions to this world.</p>

<p>This says it all: <a href="http://www.educationconservancy.org/smallposter.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.educationconservancy.org/smallposter.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

12

<p>And then we say, Amen.</p>

13

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<p>Especially if you're planning on a doctorate, I might add.</p>

14

<p>i agree that the ivy craze is too much. people often dont even look into a school or know the various and unique programs that each offers. I am applying to only one ivy league school, maybe two, because I find these schools the best fit for me.
However,
I am wondering about the obvious anger towards students who apply to more than 10 schools. If a student applies to 6 ivies, Northwestern, Georgetown, Stanford, JHU, WashU etc.... that student can only matriculate to one institutionb - so saying that these students are "take the spots" away from others doesnt make sense to me. Obviously the waitlisting system has erupted into a full blown second round of admissions, but one student can only fill one spot.</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
For example, I know a girl who wants to be a business major but at certain schools like MIT, they are applying as an engineer because it may help her get accepted,

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Uh, I'm afraid this doesn't make sense. You don't apply to MIT 'as an engineer', as MIT doesn't care how you are applying. MIT doesn't run separate admissions for each major. All applicants for MIT are placed in the same admit pool, and saying that you want to major in engineering (or any other major) will not increase your chances of admission. </p>

<p>Perhaps what you meant is that somebody applying to MIT will stress their interest in technical subjects. Yet I think that goes without saying, as MIT requires that all undergrads, even, say, the rare literature majors, complete the General Institute Requirements, which is a series of difficult technical courses, and if you truly have no interest in technical subjects then MIT probably isn't a good fit for you anyway because you're going to do poorly in the GIR's. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I have to say that for those of you who are applying to the Ivy Leagues for the right reason (i.e. they have a particular program that is perfect for your intended course of study) then I do think it is agreeable that you apply to that school

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
but is applying to Wharton as well... and then to all of the other Ivies that are Liberal Arts and not even offer engineering OR business. It just seems so incredibly twisted and superficial to me...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, I think you're being a little harsh. Let's be honest. Most 17-18 year-olds don't really know what they want to do with their lives. They don't really know what they want to study. So to say that people should apply to Ivies only when they know which program they want to enter - come on, that's a bit too demanding, don't you think? That's why colleges (usually) allow students to try on and switch between different majors. If every student knew exactly what they wanted to major in, then schools wouldn't need to allow students to switch around. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Also BTW, all of you applying to 10+ schools are creating the intense and absurd competition that top schools are notorious for.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
And what bothers me even more is when people apply to schools just to apply that are not ivies but are still top-tier schools like Georgetown, UChicago, Amherst, etc. JUST for the sake of applying... but they don't actually really want to go there. Those schools are huge reaches for some people (just because of test scores -- which i could go on for hours about how much detest them, or they don't have the means to start their own business or do some incredible research --- these opportunities are NOT available to all people!!) and when people apply to these schools JUST to do it and add to the applicant pool and then take the spot away from somebody who actually does want to go there.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Actually, as others have already mentioned, what you are contending does not happen. Just because people are applying to more places does not increase the competition, because at the end of the day, a person can take only one spot. Hence, if the same number of people just happen to be applying to more places, then the yields for each school will decline, and schools will adjust by simply admitting more people (knowing full well that a smaller percentage of people will actually take the admission), and/or by dipping deeper into their wait-list as students who they thought would come decide not to.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And what bothers me even more is when people apply to schools just to apply that are not ivies but are still top-tier schools like Georgetown, UChicago, Amherst, etc. JUST for the sake of applying... but they don't actually really want to go there

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The other aspect is that many (probably most) people don't get into their first-choice school. So, sure, maybe a lot of people don't really want to go to schools that you mentioned, but they apply in case they don't get into the school they really want. I don't that to be wrong - if anything, I find that to be perfectly rational. </p>

<p>Just think of it in terms of finding a job. When you want a job, you don't just apply to one employer or even a few employers. You should be applying to lots and lots of employers, and getting interviews at lots of places in order to maximize your chances of getting the best job possible. What happens if you find the one "perfect" job and you apply to that one and only that one...and don't get it? That simply means that you've wasted time that you could have used to get some other job that may not have been perfect, but is certainly better than being unemployed.</p>

16

<p>star91, I understand your rant, and I sympathize. I, too, have found this escalation annoying.</p>

<p>I have seen some students take it even further.....they are applying to several schools Early Action (non-binding), just to move the intensity up on the calendar.</p>

<p>How'dya like them apples?</p>