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As a grad of two schools this applies to (one IVY - one not) I totally DISAGREE. The only way to serious upgrade atheltics at the IVYies (or lots of top DIII LACs) would be to offer athletic scholarships … and the day the IVYies do that is the day that they sell their soul! Proud IVY grad who is also very much in agreement with not giving merit scholarships either … I LOVE the fact the financial aid budget is allocated totally to help those with financial need.</p>
<p>Who among us did not have a wonderful time watching Davidson College plow through the major programs in the NCAA basketball tournament two years ago? Okay, those among us who cheer for Gonzaga, Georgetown and Wisconsin, but still…</p>
<p>Another great aspect of DC b-ball is the lack of an “academic ghetto” as it is called at many other reputable schools—that is a description for the program where the school is in a “consortium” that includes the local regional state U. nearby the selective, and they all have an agreement to allow students to take classes over at Directional State U that will count at Halls of Near Ivy, just like a regular course. Davidson students, meanwhile, because of the 1400 on campus enrollment, have nowhere to hide the athletes. So when you watched Steph Curry light it up, you were seeing a guy who was studying during the trip to the game, and during the trip home after the game.</p>
<p>Too bad they didn’t make it to the Championship, because a showdown between Memphis and Davidson would have had some kind of cosmic consequences.</p>
<p>I don’t see what the Ivies have to gain by joining the arms race of bigtime Division I sports. </p>
<p>I think they’ve achieved a good balance now. Lots of sports available; competitive in their league, especially in some of the more “elite” sports like rowing, lacrosse, etc; few pesky questions about different admissions standards; little worry about the conflicts between being a scholar and an athlete.</p>
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<p>Hey, as an NU alum, my only “objection” to NU leaving the Big 10 would be the loss of TV revenue I assume it enjoys. I think if NU had never been in the Big 10, its look and feel would be very much like the Ivies in terms of type of student body it attracts and level of academics. So some students might decide not to apply. So what? There’s no shortage of talent applying to any of the schools we’re talking about. A potential good student not applying to Northwestern if it didn’t offer Big 10 athletics is about as much of a “tragedy” as a potential good student not applying to Harvard because he doesn’t like cold weather – which is to say, not a tragedy at all. </p>
<p>And I don’t really know how far (if at all) NU has had to dip to ensure competitive football / basketball teams – but I gotta tell you, as an alum, it’s certainly not a source of “pride” if they’ve done so. I can sort of close my eyes to a little dipping here and there and feel that the university overall isn’t compromised, but all the Rose-Bowl-and-Final-Four-winning in the world isn’t worth any serious compromise to get athletes. </p>
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<p>An interesting observation.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, are you really proud of Northwestern? It isn’t really phenominal academically or athletically. It loses out on the majority of cross admits to places like Penn, Duke and Stanford. Furthermore, its football and basketball teams are the joke of the Big 10. Also, none of its academic programs are top-notch besides theater. I don’t see why you’re being so arrogant. It has much to gain and little to lose by improving its athletic tradition. Only then will it be able to steal away kids from the top schools.</p>
<p>NU is now even playing second fiddle to UChicago. At least the latter is excelling academically. Northwestern is currently doing neither.</p>
<p>^</p>
<p>Northwestern football bowl record:
1949 Rose Bowl California W, 20-14
1996 Rose Bowl USC L, 32-41
1997 Citrus Bowl Tennessee L, 28-48
2000 Alamo Bowl Nebraska L, 17-66
2003 Motor City Bowl Bowling Green L, 24-28
2005 Sun Bowl UCLA L, 38-50
2008 Alamo Bowl Missouri L, 23-30 (OT) </p>
<p>Duke football bowl record:
1938 Rose Southern California L 3-7
1941 Rose Oregon State L 16-20
1944 Sugar Alabama W 29-26
1954 Orange Nebraska W 34-7
1957 Orange Oklahoma L 21-48
1960 Cotton Arkansas W 7-6
1989 All American Texas Tech L 21-49
1994 Hall Of Fame Wisconsin L 20-34 </p>
<p>Northwestern football has recently been more “relevant” than Duke football.</p>
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What academic programs at Duke are “top-notch” besides biomedical engineering? At least NU offers a full engineering program, unlike Duke.</p>
<p>ring of fire</p>
<p>I’m not sure who you are or what your background is, but I can assure you that among people who live on the east coast, Northwestern has an excellent reputation as a fine academic school with good sports, an enthusiastic and intelligent student body and a vibrant campus life. It has excellent programs in communications, theater, anthropology, physics, applied math, economics and a host of other areas. It might not win the cross-admit battle with penn, duke or stanford, but I fail to see how that matters much.</p>
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<p>@@ You’re the person who said that SMU was as good as Vanderbilt and Duke in another thread, so there goes your credibility.
I chose it over Penn, btw. Who wins cross-admit battles is of little consequence, however, because what matters is what *I prefer, not the sum of what *other people prefer. I’m not in sixth grade anymore, so I don’t make my decisions based on what other people think.</p>
<p>I think Northwestern has a pretty good girls’ lax progra. They did beat Penn, this year, I believe.</p>
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<p>When has Duke football ever been relevant? Duke is the perennial ACC bottom-feeder when it comes to football.</p>
<p>Frankly, I hope college athletics become irrelevant to pretty much everyone.</p>
<p>^^ That’s not going to happen. I am a big college sports fan, but the fact that my son’s college (Ivy) doesn’t have particularly competitive major sports teams hasn’t been a huge problem for him. He still follows college sports and actually is more interested in the powerhouses than in anything that happens in the Ivy League anyway. Daughter has pride in Rice, her alma mater, and follows the baseball results. She is, however, really enjoying SEC sports at Vanderbilt, where she goes to graduate school. It doesn’t particularly matter, actually, whether Vandy goes to the NCAA or makes a bowl game. The competition is still intense and the games are lots of fun. I think a lot depends on what conference you are in and whether the school is serious about athletics more than whether they achieve success year after year.</p>
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Even the Ivies “dip” a bit here and there for talented athletes. But NU “dips” even lower. For example, the NCAA sponsors “Public Recognition Awards” for the Division I teams with the highest academic performances. For 2008-09, the [award</a> count](<a href=“http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=48769]award”>http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=48769) broke down as follows:</p>
<p>28 Yale
21 Dartmouth
21 Brown
19 Penn
18 Harvard
18 Princeton
10 Columbia</p>
<h2>9 Cornell </h2>
<p>5 NU</p>
<p>The five recognized NU teams were M tennis, M wrestling, M soccer, W golf, and W volleyball, none of which are particularly high-profile. It seems fair to suggest that NU academic standards are in fact compromised, at least relative to those at Ivy League schools.</p>
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<p>I don’t. That would be just as bad as insisting the Ivy League go big time. There needs to be a choice available, and thankfully there currrently is. For those who want big time college sports there is the Big Ten, Pac Ten, and others. For those who prefer a more balanced and low-key approach, there is the Ivy league, the Patriot League, and Div. III. Something for everybody.</p>
<p>So I’m all for Big Sports for schools and conferences that want it. But I unlike the OP I don’t favor it for those schools that don’t.</p>
<p>^^ SEC rules!</p>
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<p>ring-of-fire - </p>
<p>Maybe you should know something about the subject matter before you post.</p>
<p>Since 1995, Northwestern’s FB team has won 3 B10 titles - that’s more than all other B10 schools except for dOSU, UM and until last season, PSU.</p>
<p>Furthermore, since 1995, NU’s FB team has a winning or .500 record against every conference foe except for the aforementioned 3 schools (NU is 4-8 against UM and 3-7 against PSU) and Purdue (5-8). </p>
<p>Over the past 6 yrs, NU has the 5th best conference record and has had only one losing regular season record over that span when the head coach, Randy Walker, suddenly died of a heart attack prior to the season. </p>
<p>Over that same span, NU is 5-1 against Illinois and has 1 loss to Indiana (last season, when both the starting QB and tailback left the game early due to injury).</p>
<p>Sorry - w/ regard to FB, Indiana is the joke of the B10.</p>
<p>Neither Stanford or Duke FB come close to that level of success in the past 6 yrs, much less since 1995.</p>
<p>As for men’s basketball, yes, NU has been pretty bad over the years (w/ only a few NIT bids), but Coach Carmody (Princeton’s former coach) is finally getting some inroads in the talent rich Chicago-land for recruits and the team is predicted to build on its successful season last year (another conference win and they probably would have made the Tournament) and finish in the top 6-7 of the conference this upcoming season (barring any major injuries) w/ a shot at a Tourney bid.</p>
<p>As for academics, NU has a good no. of programs rated in the top 5 or top 10, but you seem to miss some pretty evident ones such as (hello) Medill/journalism or Kellogg/business school.</p>
<p>As for the Ivies, they have become pretty cut-throat over the past few years w/ regard to recruiting in FB and BB.</p>
<p>Amaker, Harvard’s BB coach, dismissed about half of the team in favor of his incoming recruits (some of whom having lower academic credentials than usual).</p>
<p>There are FB recruits who have talked about how competing Ivy League coaches would totally bad-mouth the other schools and in recent years, there have been a rash of off the field incidents involving FB players.</p>
<p>Now, having said that, the Ivies do generally have higher standards for recruits in the “revenue sports” (w/ regard to non-revenue sports, the diff. is minimal w/ schools like Stanford, NU and Duke where recruits usually have SAT scores in the 1350-1400s).</p>
<p>For FB, Stanford and NU generally won’t admit a recruit unless he has an SAT score of at least 1000 - w/ the majority of recruits being in the 1100-1300 range (only a small no. of recruits are admitted w/ scores at/near the 1000 cut-off).</p>
<p>For the Ivies, the majority of recruits tend to be in the 1250-1400 range (there’s an exception for 2 recruits who don’t break 1250) w/ about one third of recruits scoring 1300-1330 (depending on the Ivy school) or lower.</p>
<p>Duke, otoh, lowered its academic standards for FB recruits, where one third of recruits just need to meet the minimum NCAA requirement (it’s even worse for Duke BB recruits).</p>
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<p>W/ the financial aid some of the Ivies are giving these days, it’s pretty much the same as a scholarship.</p>
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<p>The Ivies do bend the standards, but w/ a difference in degree.</p>
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<p>Many universities, including those which aren’t regarded as elite universities have all those things as well.</p>
<p>As for the Ivy League not being major players in FB and BB, many students and alums don’t care b/c they are from the NE which is a predominantly pro-sports scene.</p>
<p>Back in the day when Yale, Harvard, etc. were powerhouses in collegiate FB, professional FB was a nonentity.</p>
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Is this the best you can do? All you’ve proven is that Northwestern has a mediocre football team and a god awful football team. Congratulations. All of NU’s non-revenue sports are trash besides women’s lax by the way. Stanford basically dominates in every non-revenue sport and Duke has perhaps the most visible basketball program in the modern era and enjoys success in a number of non-revenue sports. With regards to sports overall, Northwestern IS the joke of the Big 10.</p>
<p>The only good programs that Northwestern has are trade professions like journalism, communications and theater. Kellogg is a graduate school by the way. It is neither an academic nor an athletic heavyweight. I just find Pizzagirl’s cocky attitude to be hypocritical since her alma mater(NU) has so many flaws.</p>
<p>Northwestern is no HYP. It isn’t even close to being a Penn, Stanford or a Duke. The idea that NU has the power and influence to not improve its athletic tradition is laughable considering it doesn’t have an incredibly strong academic tradition to fall back on.</p>
<p>I guess Northwestern alumni just enjoy reveling in mediocrity in all areas. Bravo!
'</p>
<p>Ring-of-fire</p>
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<p>You are wrong about Northwestern’s academics. According to the Gourman Report, Northwestern has many highly ranked undergraduate programs. Here are some samples:</p>
<p>Gourman undergraduate anthropology ranking:</p>
<p>Michigan
Chicago
Berkeley
Penn
Arizona
Stanford
Yale
UCLA
Harvard
Northwestern
Texas Austin
New Mexico
Cornell
Illinois UC
Columbia
UC SB
U Washington
U Mass Amherst
Wisconsin
U Fla
Penn St
Pitt
Duke</p>
<p>Gourman Report undergraduate applied math ranking:</p>
<p>Harvard
U Chicago
UC Berkeley
Brown
U Wisconsin Madison
Columbia
Yale
UCLA
Caltech
Purdue
UC San Diego
Northwestern
Carnegie Mellon
Johns Hopkins
UVA
U Colorado Boulder </p>
<p>Gourman undergrad economics ranking:</p>
<p>MIT
Chicago
Stanford
Princeton
Harvard
Yale
U Minnesota
U Penn
U Wisc Madison
UC Berkeley
Northwestern
U Rochester
Columbia
UCLA
U Michigan Ann Arbor
Johns Hopkins
Carnegie Mellon
Brown
UC San Diego
Duke</p>
<p>In addition, Northwestern is ranked #12 in chemistry, #30 in physics, #16 in English, #17 in history, #21 in music, #25 in psychology, #19 in Russian and #24 in biology(by way of comparison, Duke is ranked #45 in chemistry, #26 in English, #26 in history. #28 in psychology, #13 in biology and is unranked in physics, music and russian). While you may disagree about the relative merits of the Gourman rankings, I believe that it is fairly clear that Northwestern is far from a school only good in “trade professions”.</p>