Southern Ivy League

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Having just watched Duke thump Maryland in hoops, I have to ask if Duke students really care about playing some of their ACC foes. I mean do you really care about Clemson, Miami, Fla State and Va Tech? Does Vanderbilt really care about Miss St or Arkansas or S Carolina? Dont even get me started about poor Rice and their opponents. The genius of the Ivy League is that they didnt get sucked into the money pit of college football and they truly care about beating their rivals. </p>

<p>Does Duke really want to go into a spending frenzy to compete in ACC football. Its got to be tiring of playing the Fl States and Va Techs of the conference. Even more so in the SEC for Vandy.</p>

<p>I know b/c of money issues this would never happen, but it is fun to dream. How about this as a conference:</p>

<p>Georgetown
Navy
William & Mary
Duke
Wake Forest
Vanderbilt
Davidson
Rice
Tulane</p>

<p>Duke can keep UNC on the schedule. It just wouldnt be a conference game. Same for Navy/Army. Each of these schools have had good football teams over the years but nothing consistent. Also, there is no guarantee Duke will be a National Power in BBall after K retires. Just look at Miami football. These are just some random thoughts and I am interested in anyone elses.</p>

2

<p>Two of those schools (Navy, and Georgetown in football) already are in a similar conference. The Patriot League.</p>

3

<p>Vandy should be grateful to be in the SEC…</p>

<p>It has a loser football team, but it has gotten its share of the financial “spoils” because the other teams bring in so much money - which is shared by all SEC teams.</p>

4

<p>^ Bingo M2cK. SEC membership is a financial “burden” many schools would love to have.</p>

5

<p>Elitism never dies it seems. The ACC is among one of the most respected, not only for athletics, but also for academics…from top to bottom of the conference. </p>

<p>Instead of being more “exclusive”, we should try and be more “inclusive.” </p>

<p>Then there is the very important question/issue of “value.” With private school tuition/room/board now exceeding 50k a year, its becoming an outrageous burden on families, many of whom are heading for the hills to cheaper grounds and finding a very respectable home in state flagships. In the ACC that is Clemson, Florida State, Maryland, UVa, Virginia Tech, Clemson, UNC-Chapel Hill, NCState and Georgia Tech. A degree from any of these schools is plenty prestigious at about 25% of the cost of Duke, Wake Forest, Boston College, UMiami. </p>

<p>Some schools prefer to be in Division III for sports, to save money, or Division IAA in football (what is now known as the FCS), Davidson, Furman, Washington and Lee, William and Mary, Villanova are notable schools making one of those decisions. </p>

<p>How much is a college degree really worth? Its priceless, I would suggest, to the individual’s spirit and self worth, but not always quantifiable in employment terms, because comparing salaries of various professions is a fools errand. We all know highly valued professions that are some of the least well paid. And some of the highest paid professions that we all wonder how they “really” earn their keep and the true value to society. (Wallstreet being perhaps at the top of that list.) </p>

<p>Credentialism can open doors for people, but it also has its limits. And at its extreme, it is nauseating and rather detrimental to a healthy and cooperative working environment and indeed personal relationships. Solving our most vexing social and economic problems has little to do with where someone went to college. It has everything to do with work ethic, getting along with others and being focused on clear objectives.</p>

<p>As for the value of athletics in society, there is the obvious entertainment/relaxation value, but also the values taught by coaches and programs, overcoming racism etc. </p>

<p>I agree that the staggering expense for Division 1A (FBS) football is daunting and needs to be reviewed “for sanity” as well as budgetary concerns, particularly as states are strapped for cash and have to cut back on educational programs. The outrageous multi million dollar salaries of football coaches and some basketball coaches are a testament to a system gone awry. But I dont think the answer is for elite schools to all become like the Ivy League or Patriot League or going Division III.</p>

6

<p>^ Private school costs, at full out-of-pocket, are more likely double the flagship rate (Hopkins v. Maryland) or triple (Duke v. UNC), not quadruple. After aid is applied, the gap may be much narrower or even favor the private school.</p>

<p>Still, the point is well taken. College costs have become more and more burdensome relative to middle class income and assets. With fewer children and more two-career couples, you’d think college would be more affordable not less than it was 50 years ago.</p>

<p>I think one way college and Olympic sports could play a healthy leadership role would be by returning to old-fashioned ideals of true amateurism.</p>

7

<p>I think the rest of the ACC can reply, do we really care about Duke in football? Their football program is awful.</p>

8

<p>This would be a great conference. For the fans, alumni, and most importantly for the players, it would be nice to be on a level playing field for a change. Maybe the bowl game would be against the Ivy champ, Patriot Champ, or maybe the best of the other academic schools (Stanford, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Army, Air Force, Boston College.)</p>

<p>But $$$$ rules the day,so the dream will remain just a dream.</p>

9

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<p>And the Richmond’s out of conference. </p>

<p>I agree with pierre.</p>

10

<p>This was discussed about four years ago, with much discussion arising from whether such a league should be named the Magnolia League or the Kudzu League (I prefer the latter).</p>

<p>The general consensus was:</p>

<p>Duke
Davidson
Emory
UNC
UVA
Vanderbilt
Wake Forest
W&M</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/190711-screw-ivy-league-its-all-about-kudzu-league.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/190711-screw-ivy-league-its-all-about-kudzu-league.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

11

<p>I prefer “Magnolia League.” </p>

<p>Anything’s better than “Southern Ivies,” which makes them sound like a bunch wannabes with inferiority complexes.</p>

12

<p>“The genius of the Ivy League is that they didnt get sucked into the money pit of college football and they truly care about beating their rivals.”</p>

<p>Wait, so Clemson doesn’t care about beating South Carolina? Dang it, I wasted all that energy for nothing?</p>

13

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<p>Nope. UNC doesn’t care about beating Duke either. All pales in comparison to the Cornell-Penn rivalry.</p>

14

<p>Duke’s best option would be to go with Georgetown to the Ivy League. The ACC with its great expansion a few years ago has set itself on a course to be a big time football league and has the SEC as its model. Duke’s ancient 30,000 seat stadium and the need to academincally “accommodate” 90 football players in a 6000 udergrad school is something that is not sutainable for them.</p>

<p>The Ivy League would need two teams to balance the ahtletic schedules and with Penn, Cornell and Princeton you could actually have a respectable enough basketball league where Georgetown and Duke could still compete for the Final Four. Georgetown and Duke are the only two schools with the student bodies (with 1400ish SAts, dozens of unsubsidized national merit scholars in the freshman class, etc.) and broad based athletic programs to fit seemlessly.Academically, the Ivy League would crave an association with Duke Medical and Georgetown’s Foreign Service Schools so there would be something in the equation for the existing Ivy League Schools to do this besides athletic money and tv exposure. Besides after the way Georgetown lost to lowly Rutgers today, the Hoyas may pose no threat athletically either.</p>

<p>Georgetown and Duke have been travel buddies with Harvard, Stanford and Penn for what has to be a decade, so the Hoyas and Devilts are already working with the Ivies.</p>

15

<p>I would be horrified if Duke ever joined the Ivies. If the league ever were to expand, which I doubt it will, I would much rather Hopkins or Tufts join.</p>

16

<p>hmm well what would happen to Duke’s basketball program then? surely the thought of competing with Cornell, Penn, and Harvard in-conference isn’t very appealing to Duke’s basketball tradition…</p>

17

<p>If Georgetown kept Syracuse and Duke kept North Carolina as home and home out of conference opponents, and then cut a deal where Duke could have 2 Syracuse and Georgetown 2 Carolina games, the whole thing could work out. Duke and Georgetown would have suffcient competition (4 BigEast/ACC games out of conference and a home and home with each other) to compete at the top in B-ball and it is likely that with Georgetown and Duke in conference, Penn, Princeton and Harvard would be able to upgrade their programs as well.</p>

18

<p>I heard that Agnes Scott College was one of the “Seven Sisters of the South”. Does the South have some sort of elite league of women’s or former women’s colleges that I don’t know about?</p>

19

<p>I love the SEC and would hate to see Vanderbilt ever leave it. Football may be not so good (although they did go to a bowl game 2 years ago) but basketball is awesome. Baseball is, too, but not as fun to watch.</p>

20

<p>anyone remember this 60+ page thread?</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/158909-if-ivy-league-added-2-schools-would-they.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/158909-if-ivy-league-added-2-schools-would-they.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;