Ivy Football Recruiting 2014 - one family's experience

Athletic Recruits
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<p>@Ohiodad51: thanks for the update. Glad to hear that the financial pre-read was on target. Make sure your son does well with the essay. I know of a personal story of a friend’s son who was recruited by Princeton and was presented to the Admissions Committee but then was told he was not strong enough, despite really great grades and scores. I never really found out the reason but I think it may have been the reccs/essays.</p>

<p>Considering hiring an english teacher or writer on Craigslist to review kid’s essay after he writes it. Keep us posted.</p>

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<p>@Ohiodad51, regarding schools that continue to recruit even after the commitment - D’s coach told of a guy he had recruited and actually had received a LL. Coach went out of town for a couple weeks over winter break and when he returned, he learned the kid had committed to another Ivy instead. The kid told him that the competing coach called and told him if he hasn’t heard from coach for a few weeks, that wasn’t a good sign. </p>

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<p>@sgopal2 His mother is an English teacher and I am a lawyer. We will both review his essays if asked, but I doubt we will seek out professional tutoring for a short essay. Honestly, I am not sure how well that would work in any event. I think the essay needs to show something personal about the kid, not just be a cleverly constructed argument about one or the other prompt.</p>

<p>@varska, that is astounding. Like I said, maybe I was being naive, but since a lot of the kids my son is keeping in contact with are being recruited by multiple schools, and since we saw the same kids over and over at the various camps and junior days, it is becoming clear that the Ivy League is a pretty closed universe. I understand that schools who have been actively recruiting him but were maybe not as far along in their process will step up and say “we want you and will support you for a likely”. To me, that is just coaches that have built a relationship with him letting him know that he has the option of choosing their school if he prefers over Princeton. As long as there is no negative recruiting then I think that is acceptable. But when schools who weren’t seriously recruiting him, or really recruiting him at all, start doing so after his commitment hit the papers/internet boards, then I think there is a problem. Seems like coaches would want to stay out of other schools’ committed pool if for no other reason than to keep other coaches from poaching their own. </p>

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<p>IMHO, if my kid was before a LL but had a verbal, I’d keep options open. Leaving the competing schools with “I’ve verbally committed to another university, but I will keep your program in mind if any changes occur” should not upset anyone; it’s honest and lets the other program know that your son is still interested in case something out of the ordinary happens.</p>

<p>PS - I just was driving through the Princeton campus yesterday. Quite an active campus for the summer. Since your username has “Ohio” in it, I’ll assume you aren’t too familiar with the quaint streets of Princeton or NJ roads in general. Invest in a VERY good GPS and learn about Route 206. I was making a turn, and my crappy GPS had it as a continue right, but it was really a turn left. Oh, and expect to have your eyes burnt out by orange - even the bus drivers are wearing orange T-shirts.</p>

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<p>I don’t disagree with what you are saying, and he is keeping his options open with two other schools. Effectively he is saying “I really like your program/school, but like Princeton a little better right now. If things don’t work out with Princeton I would love to talk about how I fit in your plans.” It is understood that if he gets his LL from Princeton, then he is done. At the same time, if the other schools fill their position quota before he gets back to them, he is SOL. I am fine with all of that. I am a bit surprised that schools which didn’t really recruit him seriously (a couple personal e mails over the last few months, no junior day invite, no phone calls in April, etc) now all of a sudden are much more personal in their contact. I was told that would happen, with one school in particular, but am still surprised.</p>

<p>And I hear you about the orange. My kid is beginning to collect what he calls “Princeton bling”. Much of it is orange. I guess if that is going to be your color, might as well jump in with both feet. </p>

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<p>One other interesting point - for football anyway, it seems like you didn’t get to the point of an OV, because they can’t be until senior year? Or do they have committed recruits do an OV, but more to bring them into the fold than as an attractant?</p>

<p>(where does that put a kid who can’t afford to visit the campus?)</p>

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<p>Correct, he has not taken any official visits. By NCAA rule, those can not occur until the first day of class senior year. We have been to Princeton 3 times. Once for a junior day in the spring, once at the camp in June and once in July for an unofficial visit while on the east coast with family (primarily so his mother could see the campus). I would highly recommend doing an unofficial visit at any school your son is seriously considering if it is at all financially feasible. Having gone on official visits during my own recruiting journey approximately one hundred years ago, the official visit is a highly scripted event designed to put the school and program in the best light. Are they worth while? Yes. But they are not an altogether accurate picture of life at the school. By contrast, on an unofficial visit you likely will have a tour with a coach or a player of the campus/athletic facilities followed by a more formal meeting with the head coach/position coach. It is much less scripted. The unofficials we took in the spring and around the camps this summer all lasted 4-5 hours max, leaving plenty of time to just wander around and get a vibe for the place. Also, at several of the unofficial visits my son took he was able to sit in on a class in an area of interest to him, which he really enjoyed.</p>

<p>As far as my son’s specific circumstances at this point, the coach had mentioned to me after his commitment (we were discussing the financial aid process) that they would bring him out for an official visit in December. I thought this was strange, until my son told me that after December 15 (EA decision date) as an admitted student the NCAA rules change and Princeton can start giving him things like playbooks, work out programs, “bling”. I assume then that the official visit he will attend will be for the members of his recruiting class who come in EA, and will effectively be a welcome to the program weekend where they will get some testing done by the training staff, meet with the dietitian, maybe an academic fellow, as well as have an intro to the program. The coach has also asked him to come out for some home games this year. I do not believe the school can pay his travel expenses for home game visits not denominated an official visit, but they can give him game tickets and I believe feed him one meal. This really doesn’t matter for us, as his only Friday game this season occurs on a weekend that Princeton is on the road.</p>

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<p>@ohiodad51: I still see some warning bells going off in my head. If the coach is so interested in your son, why would he not 1) Ask him to apply EA to Princeton and 2) invite him for an official visit as soon as possible instead of waiting until Dec???</p>

<p>If this is all locked up, then why do you even need to do an official visit? Why can’t you ask for the coach to provide his commitment right now?</p>

<p>Aren’t you worried that the coach is playing games with your son?</p>

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<p>@sgopal2‌: I really don’t have much to add concerning the distinction of applying EA before a likely letter is issued as opposed to applying RD and then converting the application. I can say that at this point a few other schools have offered to support my son for a likely letter, and they have split pretty evenly between schools asking him to apply ED in the first instance (before a likely letter is requested) and those saying apply RD and then we will switch the application after the likely letter is issued. One other school wants him to write an essay (assumedly their supplemental essay) as part of their “pre read” process, which he has decided not to do because he has other options which he feels are a better fit for him, but that is the only outlier as it were. </p>

<p>As far as official visits, football is obviously a fall sport, and I personally am not too familiar with kids going on official visits during the season. This could be because my son’s team plays virtually all their games on Saturday, but it also could simply be an acknowledgement that taking 72 hours (I think that is the limit for official visits) out of a weekend while you are competing is very difficult across the board. Kids going to a school for a home game on an unofficial visit is maybe more common in D1 football recruiting, and he has been invited to several schools in addition to Princeton (“Regular” D1, Ivy, Patriot) for that purpose. As far as taking an official visit after he has committed, I too was perplexed. However, as I said up the thread, my son seems to have been told that his official visit will be more of a welcome to the program and here is what to do to get ready for next year kind of visit. I guess if the school doesn’t mind spending the money then it is a good way to get a jump start on the process.</p>

<p>More generally, I am not worried that Princeton is playing games. First, and as I said before, football is just different. Each team in the Ivy League can take an average of 30 kids a year (120 over a 4 year period). Princeton has 119 rostered players currently and will lose 29, meaning they can take their full compliment of 30 next year. Also, the importance of academics and band slotting is crucial. My son is in the highest band, so he is effectively competing for 1 of 30 slots. Were he an academically weaker kid, and he was competing for 1 of 2 A band, or 1 of 8(ish) B band slots, he might be in greater danger of someone “jumping the line”. In other words, some of the concerns which may be in play with virtually every other sport just based on numbers of available likely letters and a less “fixed” band system do not appear to be worrisome for football. </p>

<p>On an even more fundamental level, it is just difficult for me to believe that a coach at schools like Ivys or NESCACs would string a kid along. What possible benefit is there for the school and the program? That is not to say that sometimes coaches will be “loose” in how they talk with kids which can lead to a kid feeling he is more secure than he actually is. I have a suspicion that many of the horror stories we all hear about are just that. A coach blowing smoke at a 17/8 year old kid, who hears what he wants, not what is actually being said. Two examples. One of my son’s junior day and camp buddies was convinced he had an “offer” going into the camp season from two different Ivys based on what he had been told previously. That kid is at a loss now, because other kids are getting more concrete offers from those programs and he is still being told to be patient, send some film, we like you a lot, etc. Another buddy is in somewhat of a pickle because his first choice school told him after camp that the coaches really liked him and wanted him to come in to the program in the early round. He has since received a more formal offer from another school, and is at the point where that offer will expire soon without anything definitive from his first choice. My son was recruited by all of the schools involved (save one) and at each, the head coach was explicit that offers would be made only by him. Yet these two teenagers choose to believe the flowery talk of an assistant coach rather than the more sober words of the head coach. </p>

<p>Would it be better if the coaches didn’t speak in such a way as to leave a maybe incomplete impression on a young man facing a very important decision? Yes, it would. But that is not the situation my son is in. He has been given explicit information about what will happen from the head coach. The process has worked exactly as the head coach laid it out way back during the junior day in April. Indeed, at each of the schools which has now “offered” him, the process has followed the clear guidelines that were explained to him in the spring and summer. I have not seen or heard personally of anyone being left at the altar after an explicit promise of support from the head coach. I guess we will see in 6-8 weeks.</p>

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<p>Ok thanks. You seem to have a good handle on this. I wish you the best. Keep us posted.</p>

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<p>@sgopal2‌: One other quick point. You asked “If this is all locked up, then why do you even need to do an official visit? Why can’t you ask for the coach to provide his commitment right now?” and that may be some of the confusion. As I understand the process as set out in the Ivy Common Agreement, the coach has provided all the commitment he can up to this point. He has already affirmatively stated he will seek a likely letter for my son (whether he has formally communicated that to admissions or not at this point is unknown, and I doubt we will ever be privy to that part of the process, so there is some trust involved there). The two remaining steps are really out of the coach’s hands. First, my son needs to submit his complete application, which can technically be done at any time now. Second, the admissions committee has the option of issuing a likely letter after the complete application is submitted. This can not occur until October 1 at the earliest by league rule. Since they are discussing official visits well after the October 1 date, my son will either have his likely letter long before his official visit or the admissions committee will have said no for whatever reason. Either way, the official visit will play no roll in the evaluation/selection process. Hopefully that makes it clearer.</p>

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<p>Ohiodad51, while our son was not as highly recruited as yours, our experience with the likely letter process was very transparent. His offer for an official visit came after his HS season ended and he immediately went on the visit. During the visit he received the offer from the head coach. </p>

<p>Once Coach Surace indicated our son had an offer and we asked about a likely letter, it was a very fast process. It was after the deadline for EA and he had another Ivy offer, but Princeton was clearly his first choice. Once the process started, he was asked to submit his application. He had already gone through the pre-read and had an application completed and ready to submit. A likely letter followed in about a week.</p>

<p>I have heard some horror stories about “offers” that never came through, and since likely letters cannot be sent before October 1, there may be a slight chance of things going wrong. However, based on our experience with Princton and Coach Surace, if he has personally offered and you son accepted the offer, I believe there is nothing to worry about. Having said that, the LL in hand was quite a relief after 18 months of recruiting.</p>

<p>It has certainly been a great experience for us so far. I hope to meet you and your family at an upcoming game.</p>

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<p>@Ohiodad51‌, I stumbled over this thread, and just wanted to say how kind you are for sharing your experiences. Further, if my son experienced what your son has, I would be just as confident as you are in what is happening. If anything, I found the coach advising your son to apply RD till he got his LL, evidence that he holds your S in very high regard. Like others have said, it is unusual, but I have read it that the Coach sees your S as being valuable enough to get whatever he wants, and that the coach pre-empted any concerns about an application lock in without a LL, by offering what he did. Congrats to your S and the whole family - it takes a whole family to get a 17 yr old to where your son is now. Good luck to him at Princeton!</p>

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<p>@researchmum and @alipac thanks for chiming in and the kind words. I am much more worried that my son will blow off his school work this year than I am that Surace will revoke his promise of support. My son directly asked if he was supposed to submit his application EA or RD and was told to submit it RD, and then “it would be changed” after he gets his likely letter. He has received e mails that pretty obviously went out to all of the kids who have been offered. These emails stress the importance of getting the recommendations done, not blowing off the essays and supplements, etc. They all say apply RD and the application will be switched after a likely letter is issued. As I noted before, another school has laid out the same process for him, while a couple others have said if he wants a likely letter he should apply ED. My guess is that it is just the way the individual schools handle these early offer kids. If a kid is offered in the second wave as it were I think it is probably much more likely that the kid will be asked to apply ED (or EA) in the first instance, since at that point admissions will be actively reviewing applications, and there won’t be the long wait that my son is experiencing at the moment.</p>

<p>And I don’t think it is necessarily that my son is “highly recruited”. I think he is a good fit for Ivy football, but not a “stud” by any means. I think he has achieved the early attention because of the level of the program he comes from, the fact that he excelled at camps this summer, he plays a position where they will take multiple kids a year, and the fact that his academic record is well above the cut offs for the highest band. In other words, he is a safe choice. I think he checks a box. He is a high band kid who will work hard, has adequate physical tools and has played high level competition. </p>

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<p>Has anyone recieved OV calls as yet they wish to share any feedback on or is it too early as yet</p>

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<p>Ohiodad:</p>

<p>I admire your level-headed evaluation of your son as a “high band kid,” who is not a “stud” but who is a good fit for an Ivy League School because he represents a safe choice based on talent, camp performance and playing at a high level of competition. </p>

<p>That said, probably 90% of the applicants to Princeton are “high band” kids and 90% of that group will receive rejection letters. What your son has accomplished is, thus, extraordinary. </p>

1 Like
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<p>Thanks zenator. His mother and I are very proud of him. </p>

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<p>Ohiodad:</p>

<p>I am pretty sure I know where my son is in the Princeton process as well, but just wondering if it is your son who has asked the questions that has given you the guage, or if you were involved in the process. I have only talked with our area’s recruiting coach, who is different from my son’s position coach. My son has spoken with Coach Surace and his position coach, but I don’t get many of the details. My son did get the email about applying, however, and the recruiting coach shared with me that he will be invited to the OV, once admissions has rendered their verdict. He also shared that if they weren’t interested in offering him, they would not be contacting him. Still, I am not as confident as you seem! I have enjoyed finding and reading your posts; they have been helpful. My son sounds a lot like yours, as far as school and field work. Solid kid, solid athlete. Not a star recruit at this point! </p>

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<p>6jacks, my son has had the majority of the contact with both his position coach and the head coach. I have had e mail contact with the head coach (relative to the financial aid process mostly) and some informal conversations with the position coach. I can only say that the conversation where my son was offered a likely letter was a formal, lengthy conversation between my son and Coach Surace. They had a similar conversation when my son communicated his commitment to Princeton. These conversations were categorically different from other recruiting contacts he has had with Princeton and other schools. Also, once my son communicated his commitment, the tenor of the personal communication changed with both coaches. Not sure I can describe it better than saying that once he committed the conversations changed from recruiting conversations to mechanical ones. Now the emails from the coaches are have you recieved your recommendations, are the essays done, etc. His position coach called him on Labor Day, and my son reported that the conversation revolved around the coach wanting to make sure he was still “coming in early”, and not to blow off his application. That is not to say there still isn’t anxiety. Even though they called on Labor Day (the first day allowed under the rules) and Coach Surace said he would call him sometime this week, the fact that he did not get called today (the next allowable date for a call) bummed the kid out.</p>

<p>One thing confused me in your post. When you say your son will be invited on an OV once admissions renders it’s verdict, are you saying he has not gone through the pre read process yet? The reason I ask is that my son has already been given two dates for OVs, and they asked him to pick one based on when his season concludes.</p>

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<p>I have only spoken with the recruiting coach directly. He told me we can choose the OV date as well, but I don’t believe position coach has asked for an answer. I think that’s why it seems a bit vague to me. However, I was told my son has been through the pre-read, but it has not been called that, at least with me. After camp, we were asked for transcript, ACT & SAT scores and recruiting coach told me son is high band, and said that every little bit helps with admissions. Therefore, he is taking ACT and SAT subject tests this month and next. Son received a call also on Labor Day from position coach, but as of dinner time last night, had not received second week’s call. My son is having hard time wrapping his head around this process because it is so different from other non-Ivy schools’ rhetoric. Hence, he is not sure what to say on the phone calls. He is an introvert! </p>